http://forums.catholic.com Largest Catholic Community Forum, discussion forums, Catholic answers to your faith questions, Catholic apologetics, Scripture study, Jesus, Christian, Catholic Prayer group, evangelization, spirituality, sacraments, vocations, Mary, saints, liturgy, Holy Bible, Catholic book club, Church documents, Vatican news, newsletter, Christianity, Catholic Answers Store. Via www.catholic.com en Mon, 12 May 2008 04:50:45 GMT vBulletin 30 http://forums.catholic.com/images/misc/rss.jpg http://forums.catholic.com http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239556&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 04:25:03 GMT It seems that Jeff Lindsay is one of the more active Mormon apologists. His site, www.jefflindsay.com attempts to answer many of the more current objections to the LDS. Some attempts are more valid than others, but I do give him credit for a scholarly effort, which I found to be a good exercise in preparing to meet with Mormon missionaries.

He has one particular page called "My Turn", where he goes on the offensive, providing a number of arguments in favor of LDS as the true church, challenging the critics to answer him as he has attempted to answer them. Searching online, I haven't found anyone who has taken him up on this offer. I thought I would start this thread as an exercise in that.

You can visit the page here, but what follows are the actual claims:

Book of Mormon Questions: My Turn!

• How did Joseph know so much about the Arabian Peninsula?
• If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?
• How could Joseph have known about ancient cement technology in the first century B.C. in Mesoamerica?
• Why does ancient Mesoamerican geography AND culture provide a plausible setting for the Book of Mormon?
• How could Joseph Smith make up dozens of names in the Book of Mormon that would later be shown to be authentic ancient Semitic names?
• Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient scriptures written on metal plates?
• How did Joseph Smith know about ancient practices regarding preservations of sacred texts?
• Why do other ancient documents support the Book of Mormon's idea that the ancient Joseph prophesied of Moses and Aaron?

Questions on the Restoration and LDS Doctrine

• What other church better follows the Biblical model of emphasizing the bilateral covenant nature of the Gospel?
• If there was no apostasy in the Church of Jesus Christ, then what happened to prophets?
• What other Church better follows the Biblical organization given for the Church?
• If Joseph Smith just made up the idea of vicarious baptism for the dead, why do numerous ancient documents validate the LDS claim that this was an authentic early Christian practice?
• At a time when all Christian churches taught that temples were no longer needed, how did Joseph so effectively restore the ancient temple concept on his own?
• What other church better corresponds with early Christianity in terms of teaching the true relationship between faith, grace, and works?
• Why do the earliest Christian writings sound much closer to LDS theology than they to modern "mainstream" Christianity?
• If the modern concept of the Trinity is true, then why does the different LDS view on the oneness of God find such strong support in the writings of the earliest Christians?
• If it's unchristian, unbiblical, and evil to believe that humans have divine potential, why do many Biblical and early Christian sources speak of the humans becoming "gods"?
• If the Bible is infallible, by whose authority were the various books of the Bible selected in an infallible manner? By whose authority were the infallible translations made and approved?
• Who authorized the changes in the ritual of baptism that occurred since the New Testament Church? And who in your church has true authority from God to perform baptisms?
• If the Book of Abraham is a fraud, then how do you account for the details in the text that would later be given extensive support by numerous ancient documents that were not available to Joseph Smith?

]]> Non-Catholic Religions awfulthings9 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239556 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239555&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 04:16:36 GMT A co-worker finished reading the book Hiltler's Pope, and I have heard that the author, John Cornwell, is an ex-seminarian who writes some pretty controversial books. Anyway, my friend is giving me a hard time about Pope Pius XII. Is there any info out there that shows what Pope Pius XII actually did to help the Jewish people that were suffering during the Holocaust? Thanks, ]]> Apologetics ziapueblo http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239555 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239552&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 04:03:35 GMT I don't know why, but I'm afraid to pray for specific things. I shy away from that at all costs in prayer. How can I pray with "results". I know that sounds so selfish but I'm really not understanding what prayer is I guess. ]]> Spirituality scapularkid8 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239552 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239551&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:47:01 GMT Here's a review of tonights episode of the tv show, Brothers and Sisters, in which two gay men participate in a civil union. This Boston Globe reviewer uses this episode to point out how "hum drum" it is now for gay characters on TV to do stuff like this. Apparently two openly gay men are producers of this show so it's not surprising that the gay agenda is put forth so strongly but I'm afraid this reviewer is right......the public is getting more and more desensitized to the idea of gay relationships as being mainstrain and "normal". However, my conclusion is very different from this obviously liberal columnist: to me, it's just another example of how real and serious this culture war is and the fact that it's occurring and not a big deal anymore is not a good thing but a profoundly frightening thing. Keep praying harder and more often.

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles...erely_beloved/ ]]> Popular Media Riley259 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239551 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239550&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:41:41 GMT There is a documentary out there entitled "Heaven's Key to Peace". It is about Fatima. It mainly focusses on the 'Third Secret of Fatima' and 'The Concecration of Russia'. You really should check out this documentary. It is really important and is only an hour long! It is very shocking: :eek: You can watch it online for free at:
http://www.heavenskeytopeace.com/

God Bless! :thumbsup: ]]> Traditional Catholicism DrivingReport http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239550 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239549&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:36:05 GMT I mentioned earlier in the week that my boyfriend's daughters were snatched from his sister's home by his ex-wife. After he gets paid, he's going to go home to the Philippines to look for them. In the Philippines, that's probably the best way to get them back, although he has the police and family friends looking for them now.

My boyfriend is grieving, obviously. He's burying himself in work until he is able to actively look for them. He has been in touch with me by text message and he called me once, but I haven't seen him since it happened. I live about an hour and a half away from him, and I've been to his town twice this week but both times he was working and couldn't see me. He just started a second job, and I don't know where it's located so I can't just show up at his workplace to see him.

I'm sure he doesn't want to "date" me while this is going on - it would be in very poor taste. I just want to do something nice for him to make sure he's taking care of himself. I don't know what to do. A friend suggested giving him a back rub or a hug or something to make him feel loved, but I haven't been able to see him and I think he's avoiding me because he might feel he doesn't deserve to feel loved or comforted while his children are missing. I think he feels guilty that he even has a girlfriend when his children need him, and I can understand that. But since he can't do anything to help them until he gets there, I'd like to do something to help him keep his strength up until he can fly out there.

I'm trying to find little things I can do to let him know that I care and I'm here for him, even if he doesn't feel he deserves it. I'm sending him supportive text messages, but he rarely responds to those. I'm also just sending normal messages - how are you? what time do you finish work? how's work going? - and he responds to them, so I know he's functioning.

The only other thing I can think to do is to show up at his apartment with some homemade food or groceries or something. I don't have a key, but I could leave it on the step or ask his roommates to give it to him if they're home. If his roommates are home, I could also consider doing his laundry or some other menial task that it probably hasn't occurred to him to do while he's grieving, but I think that might be too presumptuous.

Or I could just give him his space to grieve, while being in touch. That's okay too, but I want to do something to take care of him because I know he's barely eating or sleeping. Any suggestions? ]]> Family Life Just wondering http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239549 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239548&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:32:05 GMT Decree of [Pope] Damasus, 382 A.D., as quoted in Jurgens, Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. I:

910u
[3] Likewise it is decreed: [N]evertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evnagelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: "You are Peter... [Matt. 16:18-19]"
**In addition to this, there is also the companionship of the vessel of election, the most blessed Apostle Paul, who contended and and was crowned with a glorious death along with Peter in the City of Rome in the time of Caesar Nero- not at a different time, as the heretics prattle, but at the same time and on one and the same day; and they equally consecrated the above-mentioned holy Roman Church to Christ the Lord, and by their own presence and by their venerable triumph they set it at the forefront over the others of all the cities in the whole world.** (My emphasis)

Is anyone here uncomfortable with:
1. The apparent dogmatic definition that SS Peter and Paul died on the same day at the same time, and/or
2. The emphasis on the "equal consecration" of the Roman Church by Paul
? Joe ]]> Apologetics Alethiaphile http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239548 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239547&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:08:31 GMT I have just finished up completely tomorrow's Mass readings. http://litteralchristianlibrary.wetp...pture+Readings

The 1st reading is from the book of James, and it is as loaded as it can get with Patrisitic commentary. Each verse has commentary from the Early Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

I would suggest emailing this link to your priests, they may want to use the commentary to prepare for homilies. http://litteralchristianlibrary.wetp...eadings?t=anon ]]> Sacred Scripture COPLAND 3 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239547 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239546&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:02:23 GMT I attended a High Mass today at an FSSP Church this morning. I've gone to a couple of low masses there. It was packed. Anyway - I have no missal, but noticed a really nice one a row away from me that had pictures (drawings) on pages that showed what the priest would be doing (posture at least) for the following section.

It was in a black carrying case.

I would like to get this missal - does anyone know what it is?

Thanks! ]]> Traditional Catholicism Sheeniac http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239546 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239545&goto=newpost Mon, 12 May 2008 03:02:10 GMT The newest "Abrahamic" faith came from Islam but today is considered not to be Islamic, rather is in it's own category (Bahai Faith).

In Christianity, I'd say the most recent of a similar phenomenon is a toss up between the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and the Jehovah's Witnesses (two sects that stemmed from Christianity but are today so drastically different from the orthodox faith that they are in a class all their own).

What, and from which sect do you predict the next "Christian innovation" is going to come?

I thought that since we see this recurring pattern in history, it might be more proactive to anticipate the creation of sects before they are even created, thus curbing their influential power. ]]> Non-Catholic Religions xixxvmcm85 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=239545