http://forums.catholic.com Largest Catholic Community Forum, discussion forums, Catholic answers to your faith questions, Catholic apologetics, Scripture study, Jesus, Christian, Catholic Prayer group, evangelization, spirituality, sacraments, vocations, Mary, saints, liturgy, Holy Bible, Catholic book club, Church documents, Vatican news, newsletter, Christianity, Catholic Answers Store. Via www.catholic.com en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:01:33 GMT vBulletin 30 http://forums.catholic.com/images/misc_khaki/rss.jpg http://forums.catholic.com http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399452&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:55:19 GMT Does the Catholic church have an official doctrine on what happened to the lost tribes of Isreal? One theory I heard is that the asyrians relocated them to the northern part of thier empire. They eventually moved north and were absorbed into the scythians. Does the Catholic church have an official doctrine on what happened to the lost tribes of Isreal?
One theory I heard is that the asyrians relocated them to the northern part of thier empire. They eventually moved north and were absorbed into the scythians. ]]> Apologetics GramdpaMunster http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399452 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399451&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:55:17 GMT "As a Catholic, I have abandoned hope for the liturgy, which, in the typical American church, is as ugly and as maladroit as if it had been composed by Robert Ingersoll and H.L. Mencken for the purpose of driving people away.

Incidentally, the modern liturgists are doing a remarkably good job, attendance at Catholic Mass on Sunday having dropped sharply in the 10 years since a few well-meaning cretins got hold of the power to vernacularize the Mass, and the money to scour the earth in search of the most unmusical men and women to preside over the translation.

The next liturgical ceremony conducted primarily for my benefit, since I have no plans to be beatified or remarried, will be my own funeral; and it is a source of great consolation to me that, at my funeral, I shall be quite dead, and will not need to listen to the accepted replacement for the noble old Latin liturgy. Meanwhile, I am practicing Yoga, so that, at church on Sundays, I can develop the power to tune out everything I hear, while attempting, athwart the general calisthenics, to commune with my Maker, and ask Him first to forgive me my own sins, and implore him, second, not to forgive the people who ruined the Mass.." --from "The Remmant" 1979 ]]> Traditional Catholicism gurneyhalleck1 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399451 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399449&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:49:49 GMT Lord, please watch over those who struggle here to provide for their family's needs. We know that the source of all that we have that is good, and whole...comes from You. Without You, we have nothing, but with You, we have abundant life on earth, and the hope of eternal life in heaven. I sometimes am overwhelmed by Your majesty, and mercy...Please help our CAF friends and families to get back on their feet financially, if they are struggling, or lost their jobs. Please help them to find gainful employment, and enlighten them to what You would have them do. If they have jobs, but are somehow struggling in other areas with their money...please give them confidence in Your love...and hope that You are always with them. Please lay Your hands over them, and show them that they don't need to worry--their Father is before them everyday, to comfort them.

I ask this in the name of Your son, Jesus. Amen. :gopray: ]]> Prayer Intentions whatevergirl http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399449 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399448&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:49:08 GMT I will try to keep this brief yet include all the information I think you might need to answer my questions.

I was raised Catholic and have attended services almost regularly(I've missed a few here and there - especially after my divorce and after some miscarriages when I lost faith temporarily).

When I was 20, I married my now ex-husband. He was also Catholic but we could not marry in the Church because he had been married (and divorced) twice before. We had a daughter almost 8 years ago and divorced 3 years ago. I had asked several times during the marriage to have it blessed by the Church, but my ex thought it would be "too much work" to get the previous marriages annulled. At one point during the last year or so of the marriage (as a way to try to "save" it), he went to a priest and started the process of annulment on his previous marriages. He ultimately was granted the annulments because they were not done in the Church (they were both civil ceremonies - as was our wedding).

Almost 2 years ago now, my new husband and I got married (also in a civil ceremony) before he went back on Active Duty with the Army. He has been married twice before (both civil ceremonies - 1st one was when he was young and it lasted only 9 months, 2nd one the woman was very manipulative/controlling - both wives cheated on him). He is NOT Catholic (was raised Baptist but does not practice any religion right now).

We have had some serious discussions the past few months about my wanting to be more involved in the Church. He has been attending services with me, but I feel like people are looking down on us because we cannot receive the Eucharist because of our situation.

In total I have had 10 miscarriages (7 with my ex and 3 with my new husband). I felt it was God's punishment for me getting divorced and remarried without his blessing. I have prayed over wanting more children for many years (since the first loss) and now I have answers as to why I lost those children.

My husband and I are happily expecting our 1st child together - we're about 1/2 way through the pregnancy now and everything is going very well.

So now onto my questions:

1) Do we have to get HIS marriages annulled as well as my previous one?

2) If so, do we have to have the cooperation of his ex-wives to get his marriages annulled?

3) What documents should I begin to gather to bring with us to the priest?

4) Will an annulment make my daughter a "bastard" in the eyes of the Church?

5) Is my current marriage considered a sin because it is not yet blessed by the Church?

6) Will the child from this current pregnancy be considered a "bastard" by the Church because it was conceived / born before the marriage was blessed?

7) Will my new husband being overseas while this process is going on delay it in any way? (He will be able to return emails and call the priest during the deployment but the priest won't be able to call him directly to ask questions etc)

8) Does my new husband have to convert to Catholicism before our marriage can be blessed? (He and I have discussed him taking the RCIA classes during the deployment with the Catholic chaplain - we need to find out about his marriages needing to be annulled before the classes as well)

9) Since we had a civil ceremony with just witnesses (no family or friends) - would it be appropriate to invite our family / friends to celebrate our marriage being blessed by the Church? (We will not register for gifts or have a fancy reception, but would like them there for the ceremony and possibly go to lunch/dinner after)

10) Will we be able to have our child baptized in the Church before the annulments are processed?

I apologize for all the questions but I would like to have an idea of what we're looking at and haven't been able to schedule time with my husband to talk with the priest yet. ]]> Family Life CatholicArmyWif http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399448 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399447&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:45:59 GMT This past spring, both of my grandmothers died within 22 days of each other. This holiday season will be very hard without them here on earth to celebrate with, and my family, especially my mother and my aunt (the daughter of my paternal grandmother) are having a pretty difficult time... so much so that my mom is very hesitant about cooking at all for Thanksgiving, since her mother always ate with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I, too, am finding out just how difficult the first holiday season after a close family member, and espeically two in such a close period of time, can be. I pray and hope that we all can be drawn closer together through our grief and not apart as I fear may happen.

Also, my maternal grandmother's estranged brother just died a few days ago. I never met him, and I only know that there were many, many hard feelings between him and the rest of the family, but I still wish to pray for the repose of his soul. ]]> Prayer Intentions datingtrappists http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399447 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399445&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:37:09 GMT SINGLE FOR 10 YRS, AM I READY TO DATE???:confused: SINGLE FOR 10 YRS, AM I READY TO DATE???:confused: ]]> Back Fence YESSENIA1 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399445 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399444&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:23:57 GMT All Praise to You Lord Jesus Christ, Supreme Provider and Counselor.

I would like to ask prayers for a rather dire financial situation. $30,000 credit debt, and $100,000+ mortgage debt. and unemployed. My profession has me in a Union Membership which will not allow me to look for other work. (I've been laid off a long time,-no upcoming jobs in sight) I've been pursuing a separate business venture which has brought much success for others, but so far, has yielded little results for me. Discernment: Lord, Am I wasting time & money with this business venture against your will? Do I leave the Union & find employment elsewhere, thus risking my career by accepting much lower pay?
Not really looking for advice here(though not hostile to it either, albeit lack of details), I'm really just asking for prayers to get money to pay my bills, and for discernment at a crossroads. (no handouts, just prayers please) I haven't posted here before, but I promise prayers in kind to all others here & to those who read. I'm familiar with the Rosary, Sr. Faustina's Chaplet of Divine Mercy & devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. God bless You All & Thank You Sincerely, ]]> Prayer Intentions plumberguy http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399444 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399443&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:21:37 GMT Hi guys, i hope this is in the right sectio, I know its been a really long times since I have posted anything here. But I was a little unclear about the main differences between the two? Are the similar or completely different. Are they really different but I am roman catholic so would it be okay to listen to some hymns? Thank you for all your help, hortoholic Hi guys, i hope this is in the right sectio, I know its been a really long times since I have posted anything here. But I was a little unclear about the main differences between the two? Are the similar or completely different. Are they really different but I am roman catholic so would it be okay to listen to some hymns?

Thank you for all your help,


hortoholic ]]> Non-Catholic Religions hortoholic http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399443 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399442&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:13:52 GMT I, for one, am getting tired of all the endless evolution vs. ID threads. The same hackneyed points get raised over and over again, no matter how many times the other side thinks they've been refuted. To be clear by "supernaturalism" I mean the action of the "God of the philosophers" - an infinite being.

The question is, are naturalism and supernaturalism hypotheses which can be confirmed or disproven by scientific methods, or are both positions a priori philosophical positions unfalsifiable by evidence. Because, if the latter, everyone is just spitting in the wind attempting to argue based on evidence - the only arguments possible are philosophical and logical ones. And the answer is that both positions are unfalsifiable and you simply can't argue based on science but can only argue it philosophically.

Now there's of course the simpler argument and the more complicated one. The simpler argument revolves around Popper's criterion of falsifiability. It's nice when you get evidence consistent with a hypothesis, but it doesn't allow you to conclude that particular hypothesis is true, since there could be another one which explains it even better. So what counts is when you get evidence inconsistent with a hypothesis which allows you to strike it off the list so to speak, and a hypothesis withstands the "test of time" by surviving repeated attempts at falsification. So, if a certain hypothesis is unfalsifiable in principle and can never be crossed off the list, then there is never any real test for it; it is untestable and therefore unverifiable.

The fancier argument involves using Bayes' Theorem to attempt to mathematically quantify the evidence for various models. An unfalsifiable model expands the space of what it can model to be able to handle every single possible observation, and thus it has no explanatory nor predictive power. An example: you have 20 data points - 20 values of the independent variable combined with 20 values of the dependent variable. If you can model it with only 2 parameters (a line, say) with sufficient accuracy then the model explains the data well. But if you model it with 20 parameters (say, a linear combination of 20 basis functions) your model explains nothing. Your model would perfectly fit any 20 points. For the model to have "value", its value must consist in the fact that it modeled well your actual data, but it might not have.

Now, supernaturalism is intrinsically unfalsifiable. There is not a single observation which could possibly disprove the existence of God. Let's imagine the worst nightmare possible for some of the theists on this forum. Let's imagine there were a completely verified theory of abiogenesis, there were absolutely no problems with evolution such that even higher life forms were seen to evolve in the lab, and a completely satisfactory scientific explanation for the origin of the universe. None of this would disprove God in the slightest way. Both atheists who claim that the current scientific knowledge somehow "does away with the need for God" or theists who fight tooth-and-nail the latest scientific discoveries because they believe the atheists when they claim that are wrong.

Since supernaturalism is intrinsically unfalsifiable, naturalism, being its opposite, is also intrinsically unfalsifiable. There is not a single observation which could possibly disprove naturalism. (No, not even alleged miracles.) True, there is not a scientific explanation for everything currently. But it is impossible to prove that one can never be found in principle. Theists claim naturalists operate "on faith". So what? That's not a disproof. Moreover, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what scientific models are. Scientific models, or "laws" with enough evidence, are merely methods for finding a description of reality using the "minimum description length" or least amount of information. So, for instance (in Newtonian physics) the trajectory (position at each point in time) can be reduced to the initial position, initial velocity, mass, and forces acting on the body. All science is simply an information theory. The theist's claim of evidence against naturalism basically boils down to the claim that some event (such as abiogenesis, evolution, or a miracle) violated a scientific law. They would have a point if laws were 1) prescriptive, rather than descriptive; 2) known completely; and 3) known a priori. But they aren't; scientific knowledge is incomplete and more importantly, it is empirically inferred from the data. The inferences can change with new data, and so every claimed "violation" of a scientific law can simply be an occasion to refine the model to better fit the data; and in fact, that has happened many times in physics. The other claim that is repeated over and over again is the more moderate one that something, while not absolutely impossible, is highly unlikely to have occurred by mere "chance" under naturalism and therefore supernaturalism is the more likely hypothesis. But how likely is the event to have occurred under supernaturalism? This cannot be estimated because supernaturalism is unfalsifiable. Therefore, no inference can be made about the probability of naturalism. Back to the modeling analogy; let's say my 19-parameter fit doesn't model the 20 points very well. I can't therefore conclude the 20-parameter model is a better model even though it fit the data perfectly. The 20-parameter model simply can't be compared with any other model. ]]> Philosophy NowAgnostic http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399442 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399439&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:02:23 GMT Might as well bat this one around. If it's been done before, somebody tell me.

I'd like ya'll to keep two things in mind.
First, what goes around comes around (Do unto others as you would have others do unto you).
Second, the Terminator series of sci-fi movies of computer AI and machines, created by humans, trying to exterminate the human race. That is to say, those who judge or deny God could be endangering all of us.

Well, there it is. Enjoy.

God is love,
Don ]]> Philosophy donsnow http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399439 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399436&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:53:08 GMT I keep seeing prayers entitled "Act of Consecration to __________". What exactly is this? What does it mean? ]]> Spirituality Student09 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399436 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399435&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:53:02 GMT Have any of you had experience with Connections Academy? I'm considering it for possibly homeschooling SweetGirlOne (which is a WHOLE other post!), and wondered if anyone has tried it.

Help! ]]> Parenting twosweetgirls http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399435 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399434&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:51:37 GMT I was reading the other thread regarding attending a local parish and 'parish shopping' and it struck a chord with an issue that my wife and I have been dealing with as of late. We recently bought our first house in late August. Our new home is in the next town over.

So far, we have been attending Mass at our old parish. The parish was in walking distance of our apartment and we really, really like it. We have developed a relationship with the staff, priest and parishioners that is very precious to us.

However, it is about a 20 minute drive to the parish now. And we pass right by another parish about 5 minutes into the drive. I think that we should give the local parish a try while my wife does not want to walk out where we feel at home.

Anyone else ever have this situation or can offer any advice? ]]> Family Life jjdrury81 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399434 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399432&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:46:55 GMT I feel very juvenile for posting this but I just don't know what to do with myself. Here's the background: I am a 23 year old catholic woman who's never been in a relationship. The reason for my singleness is pretty simple- I am terrified of relationships/ rejections. Any time I like a guy I'll get to know him but at any opportunity to go out with him I'll somehow avoid it because I'm such a coward. I don't know what's wrong with me because I have no problem with going out with guys that I'm only semi-interested in, flirting with them, or being friends with guys in general. I only run into trouble when I really like someone and I think that they like me. Then I act as if I only like them platonically or avoid situations in which we could be alone... in case they ask me out! I'm really frustrated because this just happened again today. I just sidestep invitations and the whole issue out of sheer nerves and then I beat myself up over missed opportunities. I know that sometimes this behavior is related to a lack of self esteem but I don't think I have that problem. I want to date this guy and in general I feel strongly called to the vocation of marriage. If I don’t change my behavior I will be single for life. Can anyone offer some advice about how to get over fear? ]]> Family Life curiouslystill http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399432 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399428&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:23:41 GMT Hello All,
I am new to this forum, and I would like to ask for some opinions. I'll try to be concise and not ramble! :)

I have started to attend a non-denominational church occasionally. I also started to attend Mass again with my husband, who has also been a lapsed Catholic.

My friend's church (non-denominational), was very helpful and supportive during our daughters illness, and I found their services to be quite uplifitng. However, there is too much I disagree with. One of them being their view of Mary as "just a vessel," just to name one.

Where did this prosperity teaching come from, which seems to be very popular today with authors/ministers such as Joel Osteen and T.D. Jakes? People seem to be flocking to these ministries in droves. I thought Jesus preached against people striving to be wealthy.

sorry if this is too long, but I would love to hear some opinions. We've had many crises in our family over this past year, and I would love to just stay a practicing Catholic and end this confusion.

Thank you to all who answer,
Jennifer ]]> Apologetics Jen66 http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=399428