CREATING AN ABORIGINAL CATHOLICISM?

PS Galico...if you have a group you work with on these things, and/or priests who could join us on this group...please have them join and we can make a conversation..or the other option is I can set up a new group dedicated specifically to the discussion of Ignatian Spirituality and the potential fo the exercises to conribute towards the articulation of an aboriginal understanding and reconciliation of native spirituality and Catholic teaching...that would be very exciting!

Galico....I have just been checking out Ignatian spirituality and exercises...I was looking at the website <http://ignatianspirituality.com> and I was very impressed. This is EXACTLY the kinds of conversations we need to have on this discussion group. The idea that our answers are within us once we get to understand those tools God gave us to do the right thing and be in communion with Him or Her is exactly what we need.

Here's my thought...why don't you think of a way in which to lead us through the main points of Ignatian spirituality...i.e. could we do the exercises together on line...? How would you suggest we approach the conversation of seeing how traditional wisdom works with Ignatian spirituality, I see some very close relationships between teh two and I think the discussions will be instrumental in starting the process of articulating an aboriginal catholic spirituality...certainly the Jesuits are strong supporters of aboriginal people and have worked with us for many years...Jesuits also have done pioneering work with theological conversations with Lakota Sioux medicine people and leaders and they have found the similarities remarkable...so I give that to you Galico...I would invite you to lead us in a discussion of Ignatian spirituality in terms of aboriginal theology...you guide us on the Ignatian stuff and we will respond and provide feed back on how aboriginal thinking and/or spirituality speakes to an exercise or meditation etc....

There is a beautfiful Coast Salish dance done at memorials or funerals that involve a dance representing death as getting into a canoe and canoeing into the next world...the movement, "costumes" and imaging or visioning of our passing on as getting onto a canoe is such a beautiful and effective image drawing from West Coast indigenous experience...that is the kind of pastoral nourishment I'm tlaking about...

Introduction of Liturgical Dancing - I have not gotten back to the messages below as I'm trying to manage my time (ha ha ha) but I came across some new thinking the other day and it had to do with liturgical dancing.....why cant' we introduce liturgical dancing in an aboriginal style mass? Cardinal Arinze, the guy who noted that there should be no liturgical dancing in North America hosted an African celebration of African liturgical dancing right in St. Peters...so I am thinking that when the cardinal argued that dancing is an intimiate part of the African culture that has found its way into the Mass, that is exactly the same for Aboriginal people...think about it..our people had the SunDance, Ghost Dance and even in the west coast potlatches the central vehicle of ritual and celebration of our spriritual reality, the potlatch consisted 90% of dancing and feasting...so I think there is both theological and liturgical precedent in incorporating dance into any form of aboriginal spiritualtiy and/or mass...thoughts?

Hi Everybody,

Well, Trickster, you've certainly got a lot of healthy response to this thread you started! I feel a bit out of my depth. Non-Aboriginal, and Non-Catholic to boot, what can I do but listen? So, if none of you mind, I'd like to just do that for a while. Keep my mouth shut, see what I can learn. I can't contribute much since I know so little, but I've been interested in Ignatian spirituality for some time (though without being able to talk to anyone about it), so maybe I'll join that group, as well. If I do, I'll probably see a couple of you over there.

Finally got caught up with my reading here! Odile53, the stories about your grandmother and your family's history are fascinating! Don't stop telling us about them, please!

I guess I'm the white minority here. Gives me a little sense of what Trickster and Odile were talking about a while ago, about standing out in church....

Best of luck, all of you involved, in bringing Trickster's vision into reality.

-- Gallico

Hello Bren, thanks for the positive feed back...writing the Pope might have to wait a bit but certainly, it will fall on the Holy Father's call at the end of the day...that is not in question...I will be doing some basic steps first and that is the old fashion steps of getting aboriginal catholics together, talking about what an Aboriginal Catholic Theological Society could look like and what we could do...I have inquired to others and there is an itnerest in pulling some meetings together to explore this opportunities that are becoming apparent...will have a busy week this week..am also stariting a tour business so I will try and get back to you all asap...cheerz

However, we do not have to restrict ourselves to the traditional post Vatican II mass – we must have the freedom to find expression in how we listen to the teachings of the church, how we develop it, how we celebrate it.

Of course, the aboriginal culture is very rich in traditions, expressions and general belief on life. I urge you to talk with your parish priest about this. Do you know any aboriginal priests in your area? That would be a good way to start this dialogue, in my humble opinion.

Or write directly to the Vatican, our beloved Pope would probably be very interested in your thoughts on this topic. He is a very intellectual and learned individual and you might just peak his interest.

I don't know if there are any churches that would have native culture incorporated in the Mass, but there must be some. You just have to look. Let me know, if you find one.

P.S. There is a show on Vision TV that is called "Tribal Trails".http://www.visiontv.ca/shows/tribal-trails/

It's listed as:

Interviews and singing of First Nations people across Canada. First Nations people share the message of God’s love and forgiveness through Jesus Christ, in order to be an encouragement to believers.

You could write to them with your ideas on a "native" Mass.

• The Celtic style mass where people sit in a circle around the altar, as part of our readings, people in the circle read the scripture, we then take a stone, rock or some other symbol of our lives, prayers, being and place it on the alter at the center of our circle as “the people’s prayer” or the “prayer intentions”, we then share in a meal.

I don't see anything wrong with this Bruce. Have you asked your local priest if you can incorporate a more "native" approach to the eucharistic table? If there is a large native congregation, or if there are other native people who would like to do this, I don't see why you couldn't ask for that. The church were I attend has a group of German people, who have Mass in German about twice/wk. Luckily for them, we have a priest who speaks/writes in German.

Table theology that puts the Eucharist at the center of our Catholic faith is also common on the ceremonialism aspects of most indigenous communities.
• I am suggesting liturgical dancing if the group wishes during the celebrating an alternative aboriginal mass .
• In terms of learning from the churches teachings (reading and gospel) we can approach that in amoreconsistent way with respect to aboriginal peoples i.e. a combination of elders speaking, any native person who is felt led to speak and then a summary from the local priest.

Excellent! I can see that as becoming part of your church's liturgy. HOw many aboriginal people are in your church now? Why don't you organize a group and go talk to your priest about this?
As you can see Brenda, I don’t think that I am being outrageous, I am just saying that “inculturation theology” and post-vatican II commitment to inculturation was the “fresh air” that I needed and that |I believe our people need to not only remain true and authentic aboriginal Catholics, it is the core purpose of our Catholicism…to honour God for giving us the gift of our spirituality, to honour the “North American Testament” (the workings of the Spirit prior to the arrival fo the official church) and so forth…it is a much more holistic and involved process than the current Mass allows for aboriginal peoples.

I don't see why you can't incorporate the native culture into the liturgy, you need to get permission from the Vatican. Start with your parish priest. If you don't get anywhere with him, then go to your Bishop. Keep knocking on doors, I'm sure you will get something changed towards a more "native" Mass! If you put the word out in your parish bulletin I'm sure there are other native Catholics who would agree with you. It sounds like a very exciting way to celebrate the Mass! I'm envious.

Hey, Trickster, my hat is off to you if you are actually trying to make a nonprofit engaging in Aboriginal-Catholic issues! I had enough trouble raising funds for the statue of Bl. Kateri!--long story, my old Jewish roommate from New York would have rolled her eyes and said, very dramatically, "oy, don't ask!"

Just an aside on Bl. Kateri: Her mother was Algonquin. Her mother's family was captured by the Haudenossaune (Iroquois to everyone else.) Kateri's mother was subsequently adopted by the clan, and then was married to a chief. So, like so much with our people, it depends who you talk with. Some claim her as Algonquin, and some as Mohawk. You can actually get a pretty good argument going between a group of Catholic natives just by getting that discussion started--LOL!

Abp. Chaput was already an archbishop when he took over the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, he had previously been the Archbishop of Denver. Sorry you missed the opportunity to watch his installation Mass. After the installation ceremony, residents of various ethnic groups of Philadelphia, some in their traditional dress, including some Native Americans, came forward to greet him and offer their prayers and good wishes. If you recall, Philly is the epicenter of one of the largest clergy abuse scandals. He has his work cut out for him, that's for sure. BTW--he is a very conservative Catholic.

"OF" refers to the Ordinary Form of the Mass, the one that we hear in English in the United States and in Canada, I presume. "EF" refers to the Mass in Latin, usually specifically the Tridentine Mass (1962 and before,) and is an abbreviation for the Extraordinary Form. Personally, I like both, depending on my mood. Thankfully, even though the EF is liturgically identical to what I recall as a child, it has an entirely different flavor: For openers, I recall that basically, the readings and the sermon were the only thing in English, and the sermon usually revolved around the building fund and parish Bingo! Additionally, the Monsignior who was our pastor has long since gone to his reward. He had an incredibly nasal drony way of singing the Mass. It was so bad that once, a little dog got into the church (the doors were wide open as it was a hot day in a temporary structure,) sat down midway up the main aisle, threw his head back, and started howling! I believe the Holy Spirit used that little doggie to communicate to Monsignior that he really should have one of the other priests do the Missa Cantata, and confine himself to the spoken Low Mass!

Grandma, even though she was full blooded Seneca, was as Catholic as any one of her European counterparts. She had a huge purse filled with all sorts of Catholic trinkets, that she would pass out to us after Mass if we were well-behaved, as she took us out for ice cream afterward. In addition to cramming eight of us cousins into the station wagon to go to Mass (our parents were notorious nominal Catholics,) she insisted in dragging my one reprobate drunken uncle, hangover or not, along as well. She would take us to the two convents where I had great-aunts who were religious Sisters (the great uncle who was a Jesuit died when I was about a year old, I do not remember him.)

Speaking of Jesuits, they are probably the most authorative Catholic resource on Native issues, including Native American spirituality in many nations. Probably a good resource if you are thinking about Southwestern nations would be the Franciscans.

I once saw liturgical dance at a Protestant service that I went to with some friends, and I didn't much care for it. However, my objections were as a dancer---I retired about seven years ago as a coryphee from New York City Ballet, and my training is as a classical ballerina. The dance that the liturgical dancers were doing was poorly executed. I have seen native dancers in full regalia in procession and recession at a Mass on Bl. Kateri's feast day, but that was on the reservation. They just processed in using a shuffle step and drum as you would in circle dance, and did the same going out. They did not dance during the Mass. I believe that liturgical dance is not accepted by the USCCB, and they're the ones that call the shots in the US. However, I know that dance is acceptable in tribal areas' churches in Africa. Additionally, and I may be wrong about this, I think the Gospel can only be proclaimed at Mass by an ordained person, meaning a bishop, priest, or deacon, but other readings can be done by laypersons.

I'll chat later. The old movie "Our Lady of Fatima" is coming on EWTN, and I want to catch it. I loved that movie when I was a kid!

Hokomai...the article you sent me is very academic but I am wading my way through the information, and you are right, it is an enjoyable (and academically challenging) paper. Are you saying that is author is a priest? I am assuming that he is also an anthropolgist as the paper is written in that disciplines format.a

I believe you forwarded that article to me to spur the discussion of inanimate and animate powers, which characterize indigenous thinking about 'power", "mana", "chi" in what western thinking calls "inanimate" and that is a cause for much division.

My sense is that I need to finish off your article (I have two more sections) and visit what the position of the church is in relation to "animate and inanimate"..the author did quote Thomas Aquinas which is neat and I did do a small review on other Catholic sources that acknowlede that the church may not be so black and white on the scientific concept of "animate and inanamiate' with respect to energy, individual and personal powers that God gave us all...etc..

Are you aware of any source of Catholic teaching (or catechism) that addresses concepts of "mana", "chi", etc...to me it is a very natural source within all of creation...even what is called "inanimate" cannot exist without this source of chi, power or mana...I will also try to find writing from Catholic scholars who have worked towards reconciling this stuff...I know for example, that the Jesuits in South Dakota held a six year long process with the Lakota Sioux in terms of their religious beliefs, perhaps they may have touched on the concept of "energy" as part of inanimate life...and therefore an inanimate's spiritual guide role....anyways I think you know where I am going on this as I think in writing.... I will do more thinking about the article you sent me BUT feel free to share your thoughts, ideas and sense of how to create a productive conversation around this issue in terms of reconciling aboriginal spiritual world views and the teachings, experience and spirituality of our own Catholic faith communty.