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I would agree that Jesuits are not so liberal as people say they are, but I also think that its the nature of the order that its members push the boundaries sometimes. The same facets of the order that produce brilliant apologetics and countless converts produce individual members who take a point too far.
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It helps a lot. Thank you!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aithorette
I have been reading responses to this thread, and it has helped me a lot to understand this doctrine. I am a new Catholic (April of this year), and I have SO much to learn!
Thank you!
Julie
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Welcome home and even us life long Catholics still have alot to learn. Some more than others. I find many converts know the faith better than many cradle catholics.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjo
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Thanks that's a nice report.
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There is a great book called "the Faith of the Early Fathers" by William A. Jurgens, ISBN #0-8146-0432-3
From the Index I got...
Tertullian -
#381 - Church was built upon Peter....
#387 - chiding a church for trying to grab the Power of the Keys to the kingdom.
Clement of Alexandria
#436 -Savior paid tribute to him by choosing him to be pre-eminent among the Apostles...
Origen:
#479A - Peter, upon whom is built the Church of Christ....left only one Epistle of acknowledged genuinity.
#489 Origen calls Peter "the great foundation of the Church...."
St.Cyprian of Carthage
#555-556 These two paragraphs are all about Peter's primacy.
#571 In a letter to the lapsed, quotes "you are Peter and upon this Rock, I will build my church..."
#592a "...but Peter whom he chose first and upon which he built his church.
Aphraates the Persian Sage
#693a - "...and Jesus handed over the keys to Simon."
St. Ephraim
#706- "Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the Holy Church. I betimes called you Peter because you will support all its buildings.
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
#810 "...Peter, the first and foremost of the Apostles..."
#835a - "Peter both the Chief of the Apostles and the Keeper of the Kingdom...."
There are many more examples from the text, but this should be fine for right now!
God bless,
CC
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Sep 13, '09 10:13 am
banjo
"Stephen II (March 23-27, 752) When Zachary died, the priest Stephen was unanimously elected pope. But a few days later, before he could be consecrated, he died of a stroke.....Because of the brevity of his pontificate, Stephen has been a bit of a problem for accounting popes named Stephen; some lists do not include him." A History of the Popes; Charles A. Coulombe; MJF Books, NY;2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawanda
hi everyone, i am new here this is my first post so I hope I am posting correctly and in the right area please let me know if i am incorrect.
I have a question that I am need of answers too, my first question involve a church that is closing down. that priest will be our new priest at my historic church. and his congregation will come over as well, in the mean while our beloved priest has been sent to another church, we are all very sad to see him go and many of our parishoners are leaving to join him in this other smaller church.
I was told that this sunday the new priest will do a "Unblessing" at his church to close it down.?
also I was told that our "historic " church had an altar change. they took the old altar out and removed the relic. no one knew who the relic was? they could not identify the saint. so when they put in the new altar they did not put the relic back in. so our "historic " church has no relic burried in it.
my questions are: 1. how do they UNBLESS a church?? if that is what it is called and why?
2. Isn't it a rule that when a church is dedicated a relic of a saint is put in the church? do all catholic churches have relics or only the older ones. I was told they stopped requiring that of catholic churches . that dissapointed me to know that our church has no relic.
3. where can I find more information about relics in the church?
thanks for answering .....I hope I did this right. 
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Not all will see this post so it would have been better on the normal forum (make new topic I think) or to ask an apologist (sp). I am not sure how you unbless a church but I am fairly sure each Church as a relic build into the center of the alter and this must be removed. Sorry can't help much more then this since I have never read up or heard of it before.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexegete
can anybody enlighten me about the Eastern Orthodox Church? Who are they? Are they Catholics? If yes, are they in communion with Rome? What is their history? Thanks so much and God bless!
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Sorry, but I'm gonna throw in a little bit more confusion and mention that there are also "Oriental Orthodox" Churches. Those are Churches that are not much different from Eastern Orthodox Churches in that they have genuine Apostolic Succession. If you've ever heard of the Coptic Church, they're part of the Oriental Orthodox communion.
Diffferences between the Orthodox Churches and the protestants is that the Orthodox do have full sacraments as someone mentioned earlier; this means their priests are real priests, their Eucharist is real Eucharist (though celebrated a little different). We recognise the Orthodox to be genuine Churches because they retain Apostolic Succession (their Bishops are consecrated by other Bishops in an unbroken line back to the Apostles, just like us Catholics); protestants do not have that and aren't technically churches, but "ecclesial communities." Catholics (even many experts, like professors) tend to call the protestant groups "Churches," but Vatican documents don't do that.
While it is possible that we will be reunited with the Orthodox Churches (and that will definitely happen eventually), there is not the same possibility with protestants, except for cases where groups of them decide to convert. The most we can hope for with them is just dialogue and fraternal brotherhood in that we are all Christians, but we're never going to be able to merge with them en masse.
Quick question for August -- I never really understood, since the excommunications were lifted, why doesn't that automatically mean reunion?
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Where does it show that through devotion of the blessed virgin mary that made rape a crime. You don't see that there is a time period of when this became truth, it is quoted in Duet 22: 13 - 30. But you do know that this law is for all women and daughters then just Mary alone.
Crimes against the Person. These crimes included murder, abortion, rape, and kidnapping. Each carried the death penalty. Let us take a close look at the law concerning rape, because it sheds light on the Bible’s understanding of woman.
If a woman was attacked and did not cry out for help, her attacker was not guilty of rape. But if she sought help without being able to get it and if she was married or betrothed, her attacker was put to death. If an unmarried woman was raped, the attacker had to pay a dowry price (50 shekels of silver)—in fact, he often had to pay a double dowry to make her a more desirable bride. The woman might decide to marry her attacker, or her father might decide the two should get married. In that case, the attacker paid 50 shekels to her father and married the girl; and the law never allowed him to divorce her (Deut. 22:23–30). This protected the right of the woman
Packer, J., Tenney, M. C., & White, W. 1997, c1995. Nelson's illustrated manners and customs of the Bible (389). Thomas Nelson: Nashville
By this law the Virgin Mary was in danger of being made a public example, that is, of being stoned to death, but that God, by an angel, cleared the matter to Joseph. 2. If she were forced, and never consented, he that committed the rape was to be put to death, but the damsel was to be acquitted,
Henry, M. 1996, c1991. Matthew Henry's commentary on the whole Bible : Complete and unabridged in one volume (Dt 22:13). Hendrickson: Peabody
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