The Occult

My studies are important to some I meet who really ask serious questions about spiritual matters or have encountered unusual phenomenon in their lives. I am by no means an expert, and discount a great deal as bunk after great analysis of the philosophy of the work, the general personality of the person or author, the psychological makeup, their environmental, education level and religious beliefs. The Vatican has certain individuals who are very expert, but it is not an area that is widely published, except some points of exorcism or demonic possession.

Even with the spiritual beatings I experienced, no matter how intense they were, I feel that it all happened for a reason, even the difficulties I experienced. In the world today, with the great spiritual battles we face everywhere, having knowledge of occult philosophies and practices is like being a general of an army knowing the battle plans of the opposing forces before the engagement begins. It places the person in both a position of being able to help and warn others of the real and eternal dangers of dabbling with forces better left alone.

There is a great deal of chicanery out there (like as in any other era) but there are also very serious individuals who really know what they are doing, and they do not have the best intentions in mind while doing it. My greatest concern is the young, as they are innocent and can be targeted easily by much of the media, which is notoriously full of subliminal and occult messages. Knowledge itself it not evil, until it is used against the laws and will of God. Dominus Vobiscum.

hi friends.am new to this forum.i love this group.i tried ojo board when am in school.now i knw the problems.now i want to be a good christian like y'al.prayers

Tartini-I read both your entries on mysticism and discernment-interesting that you have studied this at length. I too have symbolic dreams that I believe are from God letting me know what he wants me to immprove on mostly-I also call them "parable dreams"-I always loved parables in Sunday school class when I was little so I suppose the Lord knows how I like to receive his messages,and they stay with me-I can see one dream even now as if it we're yesterday-in it I was in my backyard and a storm was comming and I looked at my neighbor's tree which is between property lines and I was thinking if it goes down it could hit our house....and then I realized...or was "shown", that it could also crash into the neighbor's house as well..I realized I was only thinking of us,during and after the dream-and He wanted me to improve on "being selfish"-or my selfish way of thinking,it was just so clear to me then...
I agree if you bring up mysticism, some people are so suspicious and "superstitious" that you can tell they don't even want to "go there".
But my question for them is ,"Don't you ever read the Bible?"
Some people actually believe that extraordinary events such as "the burning bush" with the voice of God could never happen today....those biblical characters we're really no different than we are, they we're ordinary people who witnessed some extraordinary events, the only difference is they believed, and they we're obediant to the word of God,if not, they got "thumped",Lol!
Well that's one way to put it-I've been thumped myself a few times...
Gotta go cut some grass do the weeds....later..
Peace and Love...M

Wow! This group is growing fast! Welcome to the group everyone who is new here!

The real truth is that a person who is “psychic” would never publish it or attempt to make money at it in any way. It is more of a curse than a blessing, but only God knows the reason it even exists in the first place. With questions like these, it is easy to see how an inquiring mind could get caught up in the whirlpool of other questions that must follow. Our Lord admonishes us not to be overly concerned with the higher things, and for good reason. They can often be the “Pandora’s Box” for most if they are not psychologically, physically or spiritually prepared for it. The Catholic mystic is often so profound, that a person could study them in detail for a lifetime and never actually explain the mystery fully—ever. The children of Fatima, and those who witnessed the dancing of the sun, also experienced a mystical experience. It is only my personal opinion, but I believe the true and genuine mystical experience, whether if be of one person or a group is ultimately designed to provide a lesson more than anything.

We should be aware that with manifestations of Our Lord and Our Lady, we cannot be deceived, as God cannot deceive and the enemy of man could not ever get away with it, by sheer reason that a house divided cannot stand. With that understanding, we must also take into account many factors of what is a genuine manifestation and just “wishful thinking”. That is the Church’s job and She takes if very seriously, as people could be deceived. If the manifestation is genuine, Rome will have the final say. It is an unfortunate reality that false claims are made by some, seeking fame and money, that deceive others. That is where certain occult knowledge comes in handy as it covers the wiles of false prophets. It makes it easier to spot them, but still it is difficult. The best test is to see if what they are claiming is contained in all teaching of the Church. If not, then question it fully.


Holy perception is the result of genuine acetic practices, but never guarantee a result that one might expect. It is absolutely necessary that the soul be “pure” before any holy mystical experience is manifested. These experiences vary, but the most common are ecstasy and visions. Psychologically, these could be explained (or at least attempted to be reasoned away out of reality, if that were possible), but spiritually, they are a mystery. Human psychology plays important roles in the study of mystical experience, but most modern schools of psychology are rather one sided in their opinions of spiritual matters. Parapsychology is a very new area of study, one of which I also delved with in the course of my studies. I was very much upbraided in college by my professors that I am researching such “tripe”, but today it is very common to find departments of parapsychology in many universities. The study tend to look into questions that, in my honest opinion, will never have textbook answers, but can only lead to considerations of more important personal questions. Hopefully, these quests will lead to understanding God better. Ironically, a child understands the true concept of God better than any scholar with 10 degrees, so that is a perplexing thought in itself. Of course, today if one was to run around and claim they have visions or hear God speaking to them, they end up in the mad-house. This gets into the fine line between faith and reason and is very involved, but I urge you to research it further, as it is useful information. Never leave any loose end open in such complex questions, but be careful what you take in as “truth”. It becomes less tedious and much safer to understand the position of the Church on such matters and go from there. The Church offers a solid foundation with what to accept and when one should question the authority or credibility of any author. There are mountains of books that deal with some sort of mysticism or another that are nothing but trash. They are get rich quick schemes for the author. These are the false prophets at work once again. We must pray always for wisdom and discernment and remain confident that God will grant us that grace, as it is a very important step to eternal salvation.

I have never considered myself as “mystical” but many do consider me “strange”. No doubt one would after speaking of the things I have written here, but that is just people’s fear of what they do not understand. At the most, I get the typical “internal” conversation with God that we all experience, but He has not seen fit to grace me with any visions or ecstatic episodes or stigmatas. He may have, however in certain instances provided me with very lucid dreams, which have had great meaning of future events (although I never realized this as so until the event actually happened). These lucid dreams can be so real that one questions their very waking hours as being a dream itself. These intense dreams are very rare, and I have learned discernment much better now through prayer. It is a strange phenomenon that one cannot read text in a dream—it appears as garbled, meaningless (?) symbols. This is the only method that allows me to know it is really a dream . Also, in lucid dreams, one is able to “direct” everything that is going on if it seems to become too bizarre. The actions of the dream are where the messages lie, if they are there at all. One must look for symbolic and literal aspects, which take a great deal of study in itself, as symbology itself is a vast area of study. In my former days, I would consult the Tarot, no for foretelling future events, but for the symbolic meanings related to the question. I will always speak with my confessor if anything gets too “weird” and I am blessed to have one that understands the subject, not one who is a psychologist who just wears a clerical collar.

I will not go into great depth in the subject of Mysticism itself here, as it is vast and often very complicated. The Catholic mystics we know, Saints Catherine of Sienna, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francis of Assisi, Padra Pio and many others, were not sure that the experiences they had were always from God. Many were viewed as being rather “eccentric” and just written off by their superiors and community. I am sure it still happens today, but a religious is under a great deal of scrutiny today, particularly if they begin to have visions, depression episodes and the like. The Church holds, in Her teachings, the keys to discerning of Spirits properly, so that a great examination was made before the Church made any decisions of considering them genuine. It is an intense process that is necessary. It involves being done by individuals of very great knowledge and experience. We would not know where to really start, no matter how much we would study the phenomenon. Obviously, there are some who claim to be “mystics”, yet the prophecies and statements they make may be against the teachings of the Church These are the classic “false prophets” that Christ spoke about, and should be avoided no matter how convincing their arguments may be, logically or spiritually. As for the recognized genuine mystics of the Church, they have passed all of the criteria necessary to trust them. They have experienced an internal suffering that defies explanation, and does often manifest itself physical, particularly in the stigmata. Only after a period of pray for the discernment of spirits can one “know” if it is from God or not. Add common sense into the equation, and it helps, but still one is talking about a very personal and individual experience, so a concrete answer is difficult to give outright. One must consider all the factors involved and look at it in a scientific manner, while still retaining the aspect of that certain “unknown” factor that has eluded both the scientist and the saint since man was created.

On a related point, Asceticism, the serious occultist also practices which is the principal practice of any Catholic mystic. With Occultists, particularly those who practice High Magick, a denial of the self , fasting, prayer and rigid discipline is practiced to attempt to obtain a “higher level of conscientiousness” as it is usually referred to in New Age circles. This is a preliminary preparation before any ritual, They do this in order to “collect” the psychic energy needed, both physically and spiritually, to perform a successful ritual that produces the desired results. I will not go into details, but sex is very much used in this process (Crowley was a big believer of this, but some magicians think otherwise). On the Christian side of the term we do not seek this higher level, as we should be content with the insights that only God provide and never attempt to develop them where we want them (resignation to the Will of God). The genuine mystic allows God to show them what He will, in His own time and pleasure. The Saints writings are great studies of how this comes about, often without warning or any expectation of the Saint themselves. This aspect was only one of the deep quests I was attempting to obtain in my occultic studies, but naturally, by the outcome, it was the wrong method. I believe that all individuals possess some psychic ability, but it is better developed in some than in others.

I agree people who do this are in danger and I too believe The Rosary is a powerful tool for all of us, I even sleep with mine-sometimes waking to pray when I feel a special need,don't know how I got along wothout it all these years as I am a new convert!
Tartini-How do you feel about Catholic mystics-and if you are one-how do you discern that what you may "receive is of God?'"
M

The study of arcane knowledge is a form of "false" enlightenment. One learns a great knowledge, but it is a dangerous knowledge. It offers a supposed quick way to become very powerful (whatever that means) within the hidden spiritual world. This presents problems, as we exist here, where all is orderly and logical. The knowledge of the spiritual world can warp the perceptions of the physical world. This is why occultists who go to far into it are in such great danger. Knowledge itself of anything is not evil in itself, as it helps one to understand better the world around them. As prayer is a form of spiritual communication, when it addresses what is holy, it produces holy results. The opposite is true in the demonic, as this is logical.

Crowley was a madman, true. His "law" is actually more practiced today than ever. It is the basis of all modernist and liberal thought in today's society. Satanists are different from other occultists, in philosophy. Anton LeVey, the famous satanist of the 60's was really not a "satanist" at all. He was just presenting a philosophy that seemed attractive at the time---free thinking attitudes and opposition against authority, the "hippy' creed. Now, it shows up in the form of indifferentism. Some individuals just really don't care about anyone or anything but themselves, and LeVey preached this, as well as Crowley, that this was the path to "enlightenment". It is one of the enemy's greatest deceptions.

When I look back on the whole affair, I am reminded of the life of Blessed Bartolo Longo. He went through the same situation, but was involved in Satanism that was very real in his day. He lived at the time of Crowley, the Victorian period, which saw rise to a great many occultists and spiritualists who influenced much of the liberal thinking afterwards. It places a person in "control" which is never the case, no matter how prestigious the person my be. Ophra Winfrey is very much like those individuals of the past, as she preaches her humanistic doctrines, and candies them over with the deception of it being "the thing to do". The formula is always the same, just the methods are slightly different.

I am a big advocate and promoter of the Rosary now. It is one of the greatest weapons I employ today and I cannot stress it's importance enough. The other great weapons are Confession and the frequent receptions of the Eucharist. My greatest concern is for the young people, as most of the older persons I encounter have had some form of "chastisement" happen in their lives already. Like a parent (yet, I have no children), I fret over the young that they may be protected from what I encountered. True, they have to make their own decisions, but if one is able to guide them, by all means do so at all costs. Prayer is the only tool we have to aid us in any problem, so that is our first line of defense. People learn by experience and example, but in our present world, it often seems the young have a difficult time discerning what lessons can be learned by the experiences of others. Anyone over 40 today would understand where I am coming from here, but there are exceptional youths out there. Those are the ones whom their peers will usually listen to , and they have a great responsibility upon them to be sure.

Pray the Rosary when you feel that someone may be intending malice against you. God will handle them, as revenge is never an option on our part in any circumatances. We do not fight the powers of darkness ourselves unless we have the armour of God on. Evil is often not as fearful once it has been encountered first hand. Yet, like the magician, let us not deceive ourselves that we alone can handle battling against demonic forces. St. Michael is a powerful help in these battles. Our Blessed Mother is aware of our problems, and Our Lord will never abandon us. Dominus Vobiscum.

Wow Tartini-
What a story! And well said in Part 2! Anyone tempted to become part of the Occult or think they will receive some kind of "false power" should read both your posts!

The ONLY "REAL POWER" is with God-or the Holy Trinity-the rest is just well.......insert your own word, but I am so glad you posted!

Praise be to the one and only true God in heaven forever and ever...
Peace and Love to All! M

Wow Tartini what a story! I think I was lucky in that I only read about and dabbled a little. I guess one of the reasons was that I never saw the point of it really. I thought it was cool and exciting but I couldn't understand why'd people want to study all this complicated stuff and be in constant worry so that they can conjure up a few dollars or have power over people or whatever trifle. Also knowing that Crowley died in such a pitiful way just told me that the whole "Love is the law, love under will" was total BS. Most of these occultists don't care about enlightenment and if they do care they wouldn't know enlightenment if they meet Buddha himself.