Kosher Catholics

I'd like to share a happy story:

A few years back I met an old guy, a widower, plainly from Jewish stock. We got talking: he had turned his back on the faith and traditions after the tragedy of the Holocaust. I find this unanswerable. What can I say? But I asked him if he would mind if I said my daily Shma' for him, on his behalf as it were. He did not mind. He smiled slightly.

Yesterday I discovered he has been trying to find his faith again. He has been visiting Israel too, perhaps in connection with faith matters.

I give thanks to the Lord, for His love endures forever!
Amen!

Do you ever want to end a prayer, perhaps while in the company of Jewish friends, without the normal doxology to the Holy Trinity ("In the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"), but something like "through Our Lord, with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our might"? I don't wish to deny the Trinity, – quite the opposite: I look for ways to bring understanding.

Almost all the Divine Office is accessible to the ancient Hebrew faith. Often the doxology is the only thing that catches.

Hi. Im a cradle Catholic, but I donot eat pork because I follow the old Testament as well as the new. I get a lot of critisism about this, and all I can say to people is that Jesus was a Jew, and they never ate pork.

Good evening Kelleyclip

Sounds like you made some good insight. Remember that many schools of thought (Churches/Congregations) are like schools that lead you to your next path of growth, that next ray of light. Just as reading new chapters in the B’rit Hadashah brings new light so can new schools of thought. Always remember the goal “Christ”.

Hi everyone,

I chose not to go through with the conversion, I learned something things I cannot agree with. According to "Jewish Living" the contemporary guide to Reform Practice, clearly states that Jews who accept Jesus/Yeshua as their personal savior and Messiah are the greatest danger to their people. They are literally saying people like me and others in this group are a greater threat than monsters like Hitler and Ahmedinejad. I would love for them to explain how a little Catholic girl like myself is such a great threat.... they should tell that to the neo-Nazi’s who harassed me in high school.... this is crazy! Anyways, I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas/Messiahmas (if you prefer Messiah/Meshiach over Christ) and Happy Chanukah, I love celebrating both together and I hope you do too.

Joy to the world, our Lord and Savior has come and will come again. By God's grace we are healed and saved, "God and sinners reconciled". Messiah Yeshua will come again and it seems to get closer to that glorious day. Our world is getting really crazy, I pray for you all to live in peace in the coming New Year. In a few months I will put up another post with a link, I beg you all to open the link. The information on the site, I will forward to you, will be hard to accept but please do not turn a blind eye or deaf ear. I will pray for your saftey as this is very real, have faith and fight the good fight.

May God Bless you and keep you always, stick with Jesus no matter what.

(This is not the extra important link I was talking about above, this is extra) Here is a link to a Messianic Rabbi's podcasts, they really open your eyes! http://www.zionsake.org/index.php?op...d=38&Itemid=11

I agree. I don't mean to sound like a protestant; however, practices that were created centuries later are not 100% Biblical. I only pay attention to first century Catholicism, which by today's definition is Messianic Judaism. Otherwise, all of the extra stuff just doesn't do it for me. The more and more I get into all of the dogma, the more I don't want to be associated. It's not the same; it's grown into something I can't be part of. The only reason why I became Catholic is because of JPII and the Second Vatican Counsel. Benedict is slowly unraveling all of that progress towards Biblical Christianity, which was original Catholicism - being Messianic Judaism. If the church returns to its ways of the dark ages, meaning pre-Second Vatican Counsel - I don't want anything to do with it. I signed up for a post-Second Vatican Counsel... I feel as if my faith has been ripped out from under me.

Please know this is very hard for me to say, but I have to be honest.

I totally understand it when you say you feel estranged from Modern Gentile Catholicism. I struggled for years before I became a Catholic. In my teen years I seriously considered converting to Judaism. I love the culture and the people. WE ARE THE CHOSEN. What helped me to accept Christ in the Church was meeting Hebrew Catholics like Rosalind and David Moss. (Association of Hebrew Catholics) They showed me that being Jewish is not incompatible with being Catholic. I do not renounce my Judaism at Baptism.
I support any Hebrew Catholic who wishes to continue any religious practice of Judaism that brings them closer to God. However, I do feel that as a Catholic my definition of what it means to be chosen and part of the covenant has changed. Basically, Christ made the covenant universal. He also modified the practice of what it means to be holy. In my opinion Judaism evolved into something more inclusive and more expansive. Keeping the law was adapted.

Like I said, I was not trying to bad mouth the church or offend anyone. The Roman's valued the writings of Paul over all others, simply because he was a Roman citizen. To value Paul over quotes from Jesus/Yeshua is quite absurd. There were many compromises in the church in order to appeal to many different peoples and cultures. Though this was a good thing, it was at the expense of Jewish culture and traditions. Most believers in the Messiah are Gentiles; however, I don't want to live as a Gentile. I want to reconnect and restore my Jewish roots that have been accidentally forgotten and ultimately lost. If I don't restore what was lost in my personal life, it won't happen. This goes for the whole church and all denominations - if the individual doesn't keep Jewish tradition, how can the church keep it alive? It starts with the individual... as an individual; I feel my beliefs are tied more to Messianic Judaism rather than modern Catholicism. If the church had not lost its Jewish roots, I would have nothing to complain about. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

As it turns out, the conversion process at a Reform Synagogue is not what I expected. Converting to Reform Judaism is hardly a conversion, meaning: they don't require you to renounce anything. Almost every Christian church will ask people to renounce this or that, but Judaism is all about your personal walk with God. This is quite accepting and open-minded! This means you can convert and be a true Jew (celebrating holidays in a traditional fashion) while continuing to believe in Messiah Yeshua. I guess what I'm really trying to say is I personally don't identify with modern Gentile Catholicism, I identify with original Messianic Jewish Catholicism.

If being Catholic means believing the Jews are no longer the Chosen, I cannot and will not go along with that. Christians did not replace the Jews; rather, we are included in the eternal covenant the Father promised. It’s more of an add-on rather than replacement. This is why I can’t apply replacement theology in my life. Though I am not 100% Jewish, I feel my religious life should be more Jewish. I’m certainly not going to abandon the rest of my heritage and culture; though, I wish to restore and rebuild my Jewishness (if you will). I’ve kept a kosher diet for years and I’m healthier than ever before. I want to live a better life according to God’s laws, reconnecting with Judaism is reconnecting with the source. Like I said, I’m just being honest. I welcome your opinions as always

Wow!! This forum has been busy! I would like to comment on the issue of feeling disassociated with the church.
I can only speak about my limited experience on the parish level. I'm not a theologian or an academic but I am a Jewish Catholic. My great grandfather was a well known Zionist and I was raised Jewish until my parents converted.
I am amazed at the abundance of support and validation I receive in terms of my Jewish background. I'm currently studying the Gospel of John with Scott Hahn's Ignatius Study Bible. He is constantly showing the connections to Judaism and how Jesus is the Messiah. All of Scott Hahn's Bible Studies are like this. I've read Jesus of Israel (Catholic Bible Study). Brent Pitre's Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist's book is incredible! I could go on and on.
Last Sunday my pastor prayed the Shema during his sermon. I wore tallit in our Perpetual Adoration chapel during private adoration recently. One of our parishioners complemented me on it. Whenever I've discussed my background I receive nothing but kindness and support. Many of the cradle Catholics want to know more about the Jewish roots and history of the church. I have a home here.
Most importantly, I don't have to take the Bible literally as so many Protestant denominations do. (including some Messianics) After reading Dei Verbum, I know that I get to use my intellect as part of the process in finding God.

Good evening kelleyclip and group!

Though there is much to say about the concept of replacement theology, including history, norms, influences of incoming cultures, events on both sides, and just human perceptions, I will keep it short (not easy).

Yes, I agree replacement theology was not the wisest ideas but we must acknowledge history, it did happen. It’s always easier to look back at events and see through history’s window retrospectively, but never the same when you’re on the frying pan making decisions, your unknowledgeable group demanding answers now, along with political pressure from all sides from many different cultures at that.

As we’re all aware in the beginning the apostles and followers were Jewish. The apostles never stopped their Jewish practices, went to Temple every Sabbath, observed the ceremonial holidays as prescribed by Moses. Much of this can be seen in the New Testament scriptures because the Temple was still in existence. Remember soon after the last Canonized book (not when it was canonized) was written the church had begun changing into Gentile hands as more and more Gentile converts came into this new faith in Christ. Just as we see commonly in history, when one culture group overpowers another, terminology, concepts, and ideologies change. So it happened here when the Gentile group grew and the Messianic group became smaller the same happened with terminology, concepts and ideologies.

I can understand your feelings why you would feel frustrated and rightfully agree. This doesn’t mean we should feel disassociated with Catholicism, on the contrary. In further understanding of the situation we will need to grow from here, capture the truth and express it. If someone sent you back in time, about 1000 years and you knew only what they knew would we be having the same discussion? This discussion wouldn’t have gained strength till after 1948. Yes, St. Peter may have been the founder of our Church but it was St Paul who brought it to the Gentiles. Did the Romans hi-jack the Church (hard words) or was it an inevitable event just knowing the effects of social change with mass groups. Remember the Samaritan woman’s conversation with Jesus. John 4:19 “ Our fathers worship on this mountain…, John 4:22, you worship what you do not know, for salvation is of the Jews”. Yes that salvation was Christ but other indicators can be captured in this phrase such as lack of complete or correct knowledge by the Samaritans, because they did have access to the Old Testament books at that time.

May we all gain in spiritual strength, truth, knowledge and love in Christ.