Catholic Answers Forums

Catholic Answers Forums (http://forums.catholic.com/index.php)
-   Liturgy and Sacraments (http://forums.catholic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15)
-   -   Proof of Baptism (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=128345)

novatrix Jan 12, '07 9:22 am

Proof of Baptism
 
What does the Catholic church accept as proof of baptism? Does the church accept verbal confirmation, or must there be documents provided for proof?

mercygate Jan 12, '07 9:27 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by novatrix (Post 1808951)
What does the Catholic church accept as proof of baptism? Does the church accept verbal confirmation, or must there be documents provided for proof?

As a rule, you need to produce a certificate of baptism.

If you can't, and if there is no credible witness to your baptism, then you may receive conditional bpatism in the Catholic Church. You can't be baptized twice, but where there is doubt the formula is: "If you are not already baptized, I baptize you . . ."

When I came into the Church I did not have my baptismal certificate from Eastminster Presbyterian Church. But I did have the record of my confirmation in the Episcopal Church, which included the note that my baptism had been performed at Eastminster Presby on such and such a date. That was acceptable. In addition, I still had the little gold cross my aunt had given me with the baptismal date engraved on the back, so that was corroboration of the event.

JoeyWarren Jan 12, '07 9:27 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by novatrix (Post 1808951)
What does the Catholic church accept as proof of baptism? Does the church accept verbal confirmation, or must there be documents provided for proof?

Verbal is sufficient. If there is doubt, then it is done conditionally. Verbal is only sufficient if it done by a church that is trinitarian and you remember being baptized in the name of all three members of the Trinity.

novatrix Jan 12, '07 9:31 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
To elaborate on the question; my first husband was supposedly baptized by either an uncle, his father, or an elder when he was a teenager. There would be no documentation of this event, as it was done at a camp I believe, and they are not members of an organized church. My own baptism was as an infant, in the Methodist church.

stbruno Jan 12, '07 9:35 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
More than likely, the priest that needs a proof of baptism would likely need to perform a "conditional" baptism since this is usually not an acceptable form of baptism in the case of your spouse..
However,
From the Methodist church, that is certainly acceptable, and in most cases...a written document can still be provided of a baptism.

But when in doubt...ask your parish priest!

novatrix Jan 12, '07 9:49 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
This question is in regards to an annullment from my first husband, and yes, I will ask a priest when we arrive at that point.

Melchior Jan 12, '07 10:26 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
If someone was baptized into an Orthodox Church (Chrismated, 1st Eucharist all at the same time) yet the church lost all baptismal records for an 8 year period would the Catholic accept verbal confirmation? This actually happened that is why I am asking.

Mel

JoeyWarren Jan 13, '07 2:25 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Melchior (Post 1809127)
If someone was baptized into an Orthodox Church (Chrismated, 1st Eucharist all at the same time) yet the church lost all baptismal records for an 8 year period would the Catholic accept verbal confirmation? This actually happened that is why I am asking.
Mel

Not sure.

Mary3 Jan 13, '07 2:43 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Documented proof is generally required. Also, the priest will need to ascertain that the Trinitarian formula was used ("I baptise you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"), and that water was used for the baptism. That can sometimes be assumed depending on the denomination. It sound like these details may not be available in his circumstance. In any case, if there is a doubt, the person can be conditionally baptised in the Catholic Church.

Conditional baptism is the full baptismal rite preceeded with a 'disclaimer' that the priest intends to baptise this person if he has never been baptised before.

puzzleannie Jan 13, '07 3:26 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by novatrix (Post 1808951)
What does the Catholic church accept as proof of baptism? Does the church accept verbal confirmation, or must there be documents provided for proof?

in order to receive the other sacraments the candidate must present an original or certified copy (not just a fax or xerox) certificate or other written proof of baptism from the original parish or diocese, with a seal guaranteeing the accuracy of the information.

If that is not possible, a statement or affidavit by witnesses to the baptism, such as by parents, godparents or other relatives who were there, stating the details and notarized is acceptable.

If it was not Catholic, those details must include information as to valid form and matter: water baptism and Trinitarian formula.

If these are not forthcoming, a conditional baptism will be done (usually privately) before the other sacraments are conferred.

puzzleannie Jan 13, '07 3:27 am

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyWarren (Post 1808972)
Verbal is sufficient. If there is doubt, then it is done conditionally. Verbal is only sufficient if it done by a church that is trinitarian and you remember being baptized in the name of all three members of the Trinity.

I am sorry, it is not enough, there must be documentation, that is canon law, if the candidate was an adult and can attest to the circumstances himself, he can be the witness for the affidavit.

LittleRose Jan 15, '07 3:11 pm

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by novatrix (Post 1808985)
To elaborate on the question; my first husband was supposedly baptized by either an uncle, his father, or an elder when he was a teenager. There would be no documentation of this event, as it was done at a camp I believe, and they are not members of an organized church. My own baptism was as an infant, in the Methodist church.

Is the person who performed this baptism able to attest to it in a way that the anullment tribunal will accept?

novatrix Jan 15, '07 4:26 pm

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRose (Post 1820318)
Is the person who performed this baptism able to attest to it in a way that the anullment tribunal will accept?

If it was his father or uncle, yes, but as they don't recognize the authority of the Catholic church, I suspect they would refuse to participate. The elders may no longer be living, or would be difficult to track down after 30 years.

puzzleannie Jan 15, '07 4:55 pm

Re: Proof of Baptism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRose (Post 1820318)
Is the person who performed this baptism able to attest to it in a way that the anullment tribunal will accept?

yes, as was said before, any witness to the baptism can attest to the event, matter and form.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:16 pm.


Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.