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-   -   Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=337230)

4elise May 10, '09 10:15 pm

Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
A new poll shows that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Climate Change is a serious moral issue.

http://catholicclimatecovenant.org/

This is something I certainly agree with - the dialogue on these forums about climate change / global warming --- are often very charged - but I believe this is because we do believe that it is a moral issue - I would invite everyone to watch the video on this web site and look forward to comments and discussion.

aggiecatholic05 May 10, '09 10:56 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
you cant have climate without change. while i agree we should be good stewards of the earth, i think the global warming-now climate change fanatics have made the issue itno a cult bordering on idol worship of the planet.

my personal theory on it is that a combo is happening. we are still warming up to pre-ice age temps, and the industrial revolution spiked that. however God looked out for us so well even before He made us, that the planet over time can abosrb that change and be ok. thats why we are starting to see the rising temps level off and 4 times as much ice form as melts in the antartic.

4elise May 11, '09 12:18 am

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aggiecatholic05 (Post 5186196)
you cant have climate without change. while i agree we should be good stewards of the earth, i think the global warming-now climate change fanatics have made the issue itno a cult bordering on idol worship of the planet.

my personal theory on it is that a combo is happening. we are still warming up to pre-ice age temps, and the industrial revolution spiked that. however God looked out for us so well even before He made us, that the planet over time can abosrb that change and be ok. thats why we are starting to see the rising temps level off and 4 times as much ice form as melts in the antartic.

We certainly agree that we are stewards!!! :) But with all respect to your personal theory - From what I've read, not my theory - the polar ice cap as a whole is shrinking. Images from NASA satellites show that the area of permanent ice cover is contracting at a rate of 9 percent each decade. Arctic ice is getting thinner, melting and rupturing. For example, the largest single block of ice in the Arctic, the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf, had been around for 3,000 years before it started cracking in 2000. Within two years it had split all the way through and is now breaking into pieces. To clarify, I am taking this information from the National Resource Defense Council http://www.nrdc.org -

I know that when looking for information that supports our positions, we all tend to quote the ones that agree with what we already have come to believe. I wonder if there were a way to agree on some 'neutral' source for information??? This is why I've tried to post information on other threads from the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change, the USCCB, etc for discussion ---- thinking that the resources of the CCCC and others might give some weight to the discussion here at the CAF. But many still equate the idea that anyone thinks that "Climate Change is happening" they are - as you labeled them "fanatics <that> have made the issue into a cult bordering on idol worship of the planet."

It is because I have come to believe - from what I've read - Climate Change is happening, and our actions impact this - AND - because the poor are most vulnerable to the effects projected - I feel that I have a responsibility, because my faith calls me to do so, to do something personally and to keep the dialogue going here even when it isn't easy. So hopefully we can all have a respectful discussion here - perhaps identify some sources of information that we could all agree upon as being neutral for information - peace

aggiecatholic05 May 11, '09 12:30 am

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
civil discourse would be good. as to my theory it would be just that. as to the ice, i dont conceede just yet that there is less.

http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm


http://www.iceagenow.com/Antarctic_S...Since_1980.htm


http://www.iceagenow.com/We_overlook...les_of_ice.htm


http://www.iceagenow.com/Arctic_Sea_...ed_History.htm


http://www.iceagenow.com/Climate_change_chicanery.htm



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html

Quote:

Ice is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap.

Australia Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

feargalmac May 11, '09 2:03 am

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aggiecatholic05 (Post 5186196)
you cant have climate without change. while i agree we should be good stewards of the earth, i think the global warming-now climate change fanatics have made the issue itno a cult bordering on idol worship of the planet

I agree. Climate change activists are often the same people that call for population control and in their zeal for reducing carbon emmisions are overseeing the change from crops for food to crops for fuel, leaving many thousands starving.

FAB May 11, '09 8:05 am

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4elise (Post 5186106)
A new poll shows that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Climate Change is a serious moral issue.

http://catholicclimatecovenant.org/

This is something I certainly agree with - the dialogue on these forums about climate change / global warming --- are often very charged - but I believe this is because we do believe that it is a moral issue - I would invite everyone to watch the video on this web site and look forward to comments and discussion.

It appears that the web site is playing a little loose witht he survey. 55% of Catholics agrree that global change is a serious issue is not a vast majority.
The Church calls us and God gave us the earth to be good stewards. The problem with hot button issues like Global climate change and particularly this issue is that that there is more retoric than facts. Catholics are no difference than any other group of not being fully informed on an issue
Is there Global climate change, it's a very real possibility, but the cause is up for depart. The earth has gone through massive changes in it's climate with the biggest cause being the sun, not man.
I look at the issue that there is a geat deal of arrigance on the part of those who first think that humans can really have an major effect on the global evironment to cause it or to prevent it.

Peace,
FAB

JimG May 11, '09 11:44 am

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
I've looked at the Catholic Coalition for Climate Change website and can not agree that it is a neutral source. Also I could not find any information about who organized the group, who heads, who is on the Board of Directors. It seems to aggregate from various sources which are friendly to its cause, but I don't find any particular evidence of neutrality.

mapleoak May 11, '09 3:20 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4elise (Post 5186352)
It is because I have come to believe - from what I've read - Climate Change is happening, and our actions impact this - AND - because the poor are most vulnerable to the effects projected - I feel that I have a responsibility, because my faith calls me to do so, to do something personally and to keep the dialogue going here even when it isn't easy.

In what way are the poor most vulnerable to the effects of climate change?

mapleoak May 11, '09 3:22 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by feargalmac (Post 5186488)
I agree. Climate change activists are often the same people that call for population control and in their zeal for reducing carbon emmisions are overseeing the change from crops for food to crops for fuel, leaving many thousands starving.

The underlying motive behind the global warming (and now climate change) myth has always been population control.

maryjk May 11, '09 3:32 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
It is hard to take any of the Climate Change alarmists seriously. Just 30 years ago, we learned about the next ice age in school. All the"experts" were sure that we would all be frozen in just a few years.

Now, they are sure we are going to fry.

These experts can't predict the weather for next week, but they know for sure, this time at least, that we are in the middle of global warming. :rolleyes:

Calliso May 11, '09 4:49 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maryjk (Post 5189098)
It is hard to take any of the Climate Change alarmists seriously. Just 30 years ago, we learned about the next ice age in school. All the"experts" were sure that we would all be frozen in just a few years.

Now, they are sure we are going to fry.

These experts can't predict the weather for next week, but they know for sure, this time at least, that we are in the middle of global warming. :rolleyes:

Ummm actually even in the 70's most scientists predicted global warming. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...switch_lang/in So actually no the vast majority were not predicting long term cooling at all.

4elise May 11, '09 5:36 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by feargalmac (Post 5186488)
I agree. Climate change activists are often the same people that call for population control and in their zeal for reducing carbon emmisions are overseeing the change from crops for food to crops for fuel, leaving many thousands starving.

There may be some climate change activists who do call for population control - I don't think anyone believes that everyone should have as many children as they can - everyone is called to be responsible especially when bringing children into the world - NFP helps people of faith do just that, and I don't think there is anyone on these forums who have a problem with NFP.

Of course there are people who take that (like EVERYTHING else) to an extreme and call for the state to step in as in China mandating the number of children people can have ---- that is not the discussion I was trying to have here - as CATHOLICS - people of faith - we have to speak with each other with respect, and the other point you make I couldn't agree with you more - and I certainly do not advocate using food crops for fuel .... so see we do agree on a lot already! ;)

4elise May 11, '09 5:46 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleoak (Post 5189049)
The underlying motive behind the global warming (and now climate change) myth has always been population control.

I just don't see a conspiracy here - unless it is on the part of the 'giant multinational cooporations' that do not want change - keep things the way they are, keep using coal and fuel all resources without questioning the impact.... it is SCIENCE that points to climate change, simply science.

1) There is NO published scientific data that contradicts human-influenced climate change in ANY peer-reviewed journal, meaning that the research has been thoroughly scrutinized by fellow scientists for its accuracy. Just because a paper is "published", doesn't mean that its been published through one of these rigorous journal procedures.

Therefore if anyone simply says that they have published scientific proof, it must be in a peer-reviewed publication in order to be taken seriously, plus the board of reviewers must be from a diverse source and not a "stacked" jury.

aggiecatholic05 May 11, '09 6:05 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
4elise, did you look at the links i posted. the FACT that there is more ice now than 20-30years ago is there. yes in some small areas there may be less, but overall it is growing.

maryjk May 11, '09 6:36 pm

Re: Climate Change - Serious Moral Issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso (Post 5189365)
Ummm actually even in the 70's most scientists predicted global warming. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...switch_lang/in So actually no the vast majority were not predicting long term cooling at all.

Ummm, actually, what they taught in school was that we were waiting for the next ice age.

Of course, that doesn't mean anything, they teach whatever they want in school.


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