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-   -   Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=42903)

Desert_82 Mar 7, '05 6:19 pm

Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/c...d_MVC-210S.jpgI
http://www.recongress.org/2004/image...d_MVC-352S.jpghttp://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/Y...d_P2170221.jpg
I usually do not post on forums, but when I saw these pictures I could not believe it.

JKirkLVNV Mar 7, '05 6:34 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
It's like he's telling the Holy See, "Kiss my grits!"

Dr. Bombay Mar 7, '05 6:44 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
It's Los Angeles. You couldn't believe it?

What I wouldn't believe is if he actually celebrated a Mass the way the Church intends it to be celebrated.

I think I will say a special prayer tonight for the poor Catholics in LA. Sometimes, I think I have it bad but then I'm reminded it could always be worse. :(

Lisa4Catholics Mar 7, '05 6:48 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
That is rediculous and I am being nice:mad:

Genesis315 Mar 7, '05 6:51 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Sometimes I wish the Church still had anathema ceremonies. Anathematizing this guy would be perfect. It would send the message that the Church is for real when it comes to these abuses. The faithful would get the message that this stuff is not tolerated. It would be a deterant to the clergy. I guess I know this wouldn't solve the problem, but I can't think of anything else. So frustrating!:banghead:

mgy100 Mar 7, '05 7:01 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
:o :eek: :crying: :bigyikes: nuff said.

tee_eff_em Mar 7, '05 7:08 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
What a long service -- It must have begun during Advent, continued through Ordinary Time, and finally concluded during Lent! :rotfl:

(There's a perfectly serviceable photo from 2005 -- Why use the photo from 2004?)

IsaacSheen Mar 7, '05 7:08 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
No surprise.

ThornGenX Mar 7, '05 7:11 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Oh my .... :confused: :o

Nota Bene Mar 7, '05 7:11 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Bombay
It's Los Angeles. You couldn't believe it?

What I wouldn't believe is if he actually celebrated a Mass the way the Church intends it to be celebrated.

I think I will say a special prayer tonight for the poor Catholics in LA. Sometimes, I think I have it bad but then I'm reminded it could always be worse. :(

As an 8th generation Californio who lives within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles I can assure you that this sort of behavior is not typical of what one is exposed to at local parishes.

I seriously doubt you have been to the Mass within the Archdiocese. Don't make a fool of yourself by making a blanket statemen for by far the largest Archdiocese in the USA based on what you read...

Jadesfire20 Mar 7, '05 7:22 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Let's play a game....how many violations of Redemptionis Sacramentum can you count????;)

EddieArent Mar 7, '05 7:34 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
So, which of the girls did they sacrifice?

Desert_82 Mar 7, '05 8:12 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/c...gy%20A1-35.jpghttp://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/c...gy%20A1-95.jpg
...

GloriaPatri4 Mar 7, '05 8:19 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 



Does the Los Angeles Diocese have Liturgical dance classes that I can sign up for?:dancing: On second thought forget it I can't do the splits anymore.:rolleyes:

Fast_ed75 Mar 7, '05 8:24 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
When I look at those photos and see the body of christ consecrated in a wicker basket, the blood of Christ poured out of a Kool-Aid pitcher into glass stemware, and the wiccan dancing at the altar:

I can only think of the St. Michael Prayer composed 33 years before the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, by Pope Leo XIII; in a vision he had been shown the fearful battle to be waged between Satan and St. Michael. over the Church of the future. I can only imagine what put him in that trance for 10 minutes which led him to immediately compose the prayer. Now, as never before, the Church needs the intercession of St. Michael!!

Nota Bene Mar 7, '05 8:34 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Dang, mahony is beginning to look OLD...

Dr. Bombay Mar 8, '05 3:26 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nota Bene
As an 8th generation Californio who lives within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles I can assure you that this sort of behavior is not typical of what one is exposed to at local parishes.

I seriously doubt you have been to the Mass within the Archdiocese. Don't make a fool of yourself by making a blanket statemen for by far the largest Archdiocese in the USA based on what you read...

Don't make a fool of yourself by presuming you know anything about me by reading a few posts on the internet.

My brother lives in Los Angeles and I've visited and attended Mass there several times.

And by the way, I wasn't making a blanket statement about what one is exposed to at local parishes. I was expressing my sympathy that Catholics have this man as their shepherd.

And I did pray for all the poor Catholics in LA last night, even fools like you. :D

HumbleSinner Mar 8, '05 6:29 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert_82
I
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/Y...d_P2170221.jpg
I usually do not post on forums, but when I saw these pictures I could not believe it.



The singer is not in a very modest pose especially with that slit half way up her skirt. It appears From this photo our Southern CA teenage girls had front row seats.

Scarlet Mar 8, '05 7:25 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
I think every picture I've ever seen of "liturgical dance" is only of women. I've never seen men prancing around in really bad costumes. But regardless, these people look goofy doing it because it is alien to the mass and our culture.

And one other thing. I really wonder when I see pictures like that of the Cardinal during the consecration, and knowing that he approves of all the dancing if he isn't tired of celebrating mass. He just doesn't strike me as somebody who really cares.

In Christ,
Scarlet

fix Mar 8, '05 7:30 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
AmChurch anyone? And some still claim there is no war going on within the church.

Friar David, O.Carm Mar 8, '05 8:00 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet
I think every picture I've ever seen of "liturgical dance" is only of women. I've never seen men prancing around in really bad costumes. But regardless, these people look goofy doing it because it is alien to the mass and our culture.

And one other thing. I really wonder when I see pictures like that of the Cardinal during the consecration, and knowing that he approves of all the dancing if he isn't tired of celebrating mass. He just doesn't strike me as somebody who really cares.

In Christ,
Scarlet

I have seen a man doing liturgical "dance". He was in, what I can only call, a body stocking. It was disgusting.

At the time of the reading of the Gospel, he "danced" the Gospel book down the aisle. The Gospel was not carried in the Entrance Procession.

I put the word "dance" in quotes when saying liturgical "dance" becuase what they are doing is not any dance I have ever seen. It does not resemble any folk dancing of Europe which most Americans ancestors come from nor does it resemble any other folk dancing I have seen.

It does seem to look a lot like the drug induced euphoria of the hippies from the sixties. Reminds me a lot of the old movies that show the crowds at Woodstock.

It is nothing more than a bunch of prancing and hopping around.

Genesis315 Mar 8, '05 8:11 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
The best word I can use to describe what was going on there is "cheesy." I couldn't imagine anyone in the "audience" actually watching this with a straight face. It looks so absurd and like such a joke.

fix Mar 8, '05 8:17 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis315
The best word I can use to describe what was going on there is "cheesy." I couldn't imagine anyone in the "audience" actually watching this with a straight face. It looks so absurd and like such a joke.

I think the best word to use is moronic.

Tantum ergo Mar 8, '05 8:20 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Lord, have mercy on us.

I have an idea ("Oh, no! Tantum's got another idea!")

For Divine Mercy Sunday (April 3), let's see if we can get a huge group who will pray the Novena (starting Good Friday) with the intention of atonement for this and other Mass abuses, and petition for good, solid, unified, Catholic liturgy throughout the nation.

Jakub Mar 8, '05 8:55 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
I wonder if Rome will comment on this event, I am sure that the word on this has reached there via the internet.

And what should we think if there is no comment ?

james

Kelly Mar 8, '05 9:11 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantum ergo
Lord, have mercy on us.

I have an idea ("Oh, no! Tantum's got another idea!")

For Divine Mercy Sunday (April 3), let's see if we can get a huge group who will pray the Novena (starting Good Friday) with the intention of atonement for this and other Mass abuses, and petition for good, solid, unified, Catholic liturgy throughout the nation.

Good idea Tantum. I for one will join in. Seeing pictures like this, makes me ever the more grateful for my parish and Archdiocese (Mobile). :)

Tantum ergo Mar 8, '05 9:24 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Thanks, and welcome, Kelly.
God bless you!

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 10:48 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
i live in the l.a. archdiocese. first, to be fair to the cardinal (which truthfully is the last thing i think he deserves) these pictures are not from the 2005 congress. the original poster should clarify what his/her source is. note that each year the theme/title of the congress is projected on the backdrop. that is not this year's theme. i think it is from a few years ago. also, this year the congress occurred during lent and (surprisingly) the vestments conformed to the season. he is in green in one of these photos. i believe that these photos were taken before the new GIRM and RS. it seems unfair to factually distort the situation.

that being said, don't let me give the false impression that things have changed, or that it has not become worse.

Quote:

When I look at those photos and see the body of christ consecrated in a wicker basket...
also in the interest of fairness, the hosts that are consecretated are not just laying in a giant basket. there are metal bowls stacked up in the basket, which are handed to the priests, deacons, and ems at communion time. they are not extremely nice metal bowls, but Jesus isn't just falling all over the floor through the wicker either. a mass this size is only done once or twice a year. if you think they're going to buy 40 gold ciboria and chalices in order to distribute Communion, you are dreaming. its not the vatican where this size of mass occurs daily. other bishops are in the same predicament. i doubt they have super nice vessels at the world youth day mass, etc. as long as they are reserved for the Eucharist only, other criteria of beauty, etc. become a matter of taste and culture.(note the adaptations in the GIRM)

so being one who was in attendance this year and years past, here's a few things to take note of. in the first photo note the cross being carried by the server. it is not a crucifix. there is no crucifix present at any of the masses.(GIRM 297, 308) btw, it's "liturgical movement" because liturgical dance is not allowed. (that's not a joke.)

look to the right on the stage, and notice that there is a large group of bishops and/or cardinals there. every year his auxiliaries plus others from all over the world are there. he has comrades in his mischief. they seem to be all smiles, etc. in my opinion, this is a huge indication of the kind of problem and why the vatican doesn't just jump on this. keep in mind that this event doesn't occur in his diocese. the bishop of orange is a co-conspiritor also.

the pitchers are commonplace since the cardinal issued a statement in '04 that RS doesn't apply to him or his diocese.

i don't know for sure, but i'd bet my last beer that the photo with the singer is from the youth day mass (thursday, the day before congress starts) where about 10,000 youth are shown this ****. he knows what he doing; he thinks that he is changing the Church in the future. the message is Church=good, cardinal=good, this mass=good, this mass=Church, etc. the saddest part of the whole thing.

the worst thing is that these photos don't show the half of it. mahoney's idea of the holy liturgy is performance, audience, hyperventalating euphoria, entertainment. people in the pews and money in the basket.

so who's fault is it? it is easy to blame him, but the real problem is the people who judge their parish, etc. according to their likes and dislikes and then shop around for what pleases them. they abandon parishes, bad mouth bishops... the people who know what's right have abandonned all the places where this stuff happens. yeah there are a few who will post back "not me" but it is the majority that counts. so for all of you who have abandonned what you should be fighting for, you get half the blame. i sit in my parish alone every sunday.

for those of you who are indignant about the little things that happen in your parishes, this stuff will make its way to you soon. this is a catechists' convention. the people go with the intention of 'learning' and then 'teaching' in their parishes. it is a slow moving, deadly disease. these lemmings suck it in. they applaud after every 'hymn' (i call it "number")

just because Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail, that doesn't mean you and i and our neighbors will remain part of that which the gates of hell will not prevail against. the u.s doesn't have to survive in order for Jesus to be true too his word.

if you are brave enough, you should all try to get to this thing. your heart will be shaken to its core. you'll realise that the battle is not this or that sentence in the GIRM or RS; its about the calculated undermining to the Church itself.

fix Mar 8, '05 11:02 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Every time someone posts about a liturgical abuse in their parish someone else will tell them not to worry and stop being the liturgy police. One can't win it seems.

Your half defense of Mahony seems hollow to me. While he may not carry all the blame he is in charge and he must desire all this rubbish to go on. His history is well known. No defense is possible.

miguel Mar 8, '05 11:19 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
...so who's fault is it? it is easy to blame him, but the real problem is the people who judge their parish, etc. according to their likes and dislikes and then shop around for what pleases them. they abandon parishes, bad mouth bishops... the people who know what's right have abandonned all the places where this stuff happens. yeah there are a few who will post back "not me" but it is the majority that counts. so for all of you who have abandonned what you should be fighting for, you get half the blame. i sit in my parish alone every sunday...

You're right. This stuff has to be fought. And there are different ways to go about it. Going down to your parish (where hardly anyone knows you because you only show up once a week for Mass but are otherwise not involved) and taking a hostile approach is one way. But it isn't very effective. I've found that you have to give people some time to get to know you. Once they get to know you, and you have shown them respect and vice versa, they're more likely to listen to you when you have a critique. And you shouldn't try to critique everything that's wrong. That's a good way to stick out like a sore thumb. Pick one or two things to work on. And don't forget what's most important. In my parish, good people have integrated adoration of the Blessed Sacrament into the youth program. And the youth have responded beautifully. Don't underestimate the power of Christ to really rock the boat.

WBOZ Mar 8, '05 11:35 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Fix-

The reply by JustSomeGuy should in no way be read as a defense (either half, quarter or otherwise) of Cardinal Mahoney or Bishop Brown (current bishop of Orange California diocese and cosponsor of this debacle) but rather, I believe, a legitimate correction to inaccurate facts included with the original post. If we want our critiques of Cardinal Mahoney, and those within the US Church who are like him, to not be dismissed as polemical or riddled with inaccuracies we need to be accurate to the smallest (albeit probably inconsequential) details and not overstate our case.
As a returning Californian, (back since 5/04, but born and raised in the state) but a relatively new Catholic (I was recieved into the Church in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia in 1998) I have been greatly dismayed by the state of the Church here, but like JustSomeGuy I see no point in church-hopping/parish-shopping. My Pastor is weak, overly concerned with "not being reactionary" and otherwise uninspiring to me and my family (wife and four children). Abandoning the local parish I believe will simply exacerbate the problem and do nothing to bring about a return to reverence within this diocese.

By the way, my mother-in-law strongly encouraged my wife and I to attend this congress with her. After looking at the speakers list and looking into their backgrounds and written material I could not in good conscience give a dime to this charade. The abuses perpetrated in the pictures will be the least of the worries for local Catholics if Religious Education Directors and Catechists try to bring the things they learned at this conference back to their parishes.

Continue to pray for the all those of us suffering here in Southern California.

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 11:40 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fix
Every time someone posts about a liturgical abuse in their parish someone else will tell them not to worry and stop being the liturgy police. One can't win it seems.

Your half defense of Mahony seems hollow to me. While he may not carry all the blame he is in charge and he must desire all this rubbish to go on. His history is well known. No defense is possible.

i am not defending him. i'm saying we have to be fair, accurate, and practical. these photos are not what they were proported to be. and some other observations were a little skewed. don't get me wrong, mahoney is the bad guy. but so are those who vilify him without recourse to the truth. and so are they who turn and run.

as for liturgy police, etc.: i've read some pretty un-Christ-like comments and attitudes on these forums. if you're all about punishment and figuring out who to throw into the hellfire first first, then you are the enemy too. i think that's what a lot of the reaction is on these forums. because, frankly, if that is what i am going to turn into by caring about the Mass and the Church, warn me now. i'll stop. becoming like the enemy under the guise of battling against him is defeat no matter how you look at it.

Fogny Mar 8, '05 11:40 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV
It's like he's telling the Holy See, "Kiss my grits!"

There is a cancer in the Church and it is not catholic. My Mom used to say "the fish rots from the head".Will Rome someday do something?? I thank god for the Latin Rite Indult Mass because compared to this it is a beacon of Catholicity.

Fogny

Nota Bene Mar 8, '05 12:07 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Bombay
Don't make a fool of yourself by presuming you know anything about me by reading a few posts on the internet.

My brother lives in Los Angeles and I've visited and attended Mass there several times.

And by the way, I wasn't making a blanket statement about what one is exposed to at local parishes. I was expressing my sympathy that Catholics have this man as their shepherd.

And I did pray for all the poor Catholics in LA last night, even fools like you. :D

All you are doing is compounding your boorishness...

Nota Bene Mar 8, '05 12:15 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

...if you think they're going to buy 40 gold ciboria and chalices in order to distribute Communion, you are dreaming...

...the pitchers are commonplace since the cardinal issued a statement in '04 that RS doesn't apply to him or his diocese...

I am certain there are more than 40 gold (or gold/glass) ciboriums and chalices available in the sacristy at Roj Mahony -- the new cathedral.

Mahony does not have the authority to discount RS. He non-compliance (even though he is supposidly waiting for a second responsum) is sickening.

fix Mar 8, '05 12:17 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WBOZ
Fix-

The reply by JustSomeGuy should in no way be read as a defense (either half, quarter or otherwise) of Cardinal Mahoney or Bishop Brown (current bishop of Orange California diocese and cosponsor of this debacle) but rather, I believe, a legitimate correction to inaccurate facts included with the original post. If we want our critiques of Cardinal Mahoney, and those within the US Church who are like him, to not be dismissed as polemical or riddled with inaccuracies we need to be accurate to the smallest (albeit probably inconsequential) details and not overstate our case.
As a returning Californian, (back since 5/04, but born and raised in the state) but a relatively new Catholic (I was recieved into the Church in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia in 1998) I have been greatly dismayed by the state of the Church here, but like JustSomeGuy I see no point in church-hopping/parish-shopping. My Pastor is weak, overly concerned with "not being reactionary" and otherwise uninspiring to me and my family (wife and four children). Abandoning the local parish I believe will simply exacerbate the problem and do nothing to bring about a return to reverence within this diocese.

By the way, my mother-in-law strongly encouraged my wife and I to attend this congress with her. After looking at the speakers list and looking into their backgrounds and written material I could not in good conscience give a dime to this charade. The abuses perpetrated in the pictures will be the least of the worries for local Catholics if Religious Education Directors and Catechists try to bring the things they learned at this conference back to their parishes.

Continue to pray for the all those of us suffering here in Southern California.

I am all for accuarcy, but to be honest whether the photos are from this year or last year or the year before really is almost beside the point. Has there been a grand conversion among all those in the LA diocese who promote such things? I have heard not read there has been one.

This thread only highlights what some may not know about the heterodoxy that continues in that diocese. If you corrected the record as to the dates, wonderful.

I will pray for those in that diocese and my diocese which is almost as liberal.

fix Mar 8, '05 12:20 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
i am not defending him. i'm saying we have to be fair, accurate, and practical. these photos are not what they were proported to be. and some other observations were a little skewed. don't get me wrong, mahoney is the bad guy. but so are those who vilify him without recourse to the truth. and so are they who turn and run.

as for liturgy police, etc.: i've read some pretty un-Christ-like comments and attitudes on these forums. if you're all about punishment and figuring out who to throw into the hellfire first first, then you are the enemy too. i think that's what a lot of the reaction is on these forums. because, frankly, if that is what i am going to turn into by caring about the Mass and the Church, warn me now. i'll stop. becoming like the enemy under the guise of battling against him is defeat no matter how you look at it.

I disagree with your views. Most on these forums are fair, but strict. I am not worried about too much preaching on hell fire, it is the opposite that has gotten us to the point where a cardinal can defy Rome and the most we come up with is to dot our i's before pointing out the lunancy.

JKirkLVNV Mar 8, '05 12:24 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogny
There is a cancer in the Church and it is not catholic. My Mom used to say "the fish rots from the head".Will Rome someday do something?? I thank god for the Latin Rite Indult Mass because compared to this it is a beacon of Catholicity.

Fogny

And though I've never been to one, in this instance, I'm sure I would agree whole-heartedly!

Catholic Dude Mar 8, '05 12:40 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
(First of all is this real? Did someone use photoshop or is this really a Catholic mass?)

So here is what I saw that nobody talked about.

-Post #1, 1st pic, if you look carefully INTO the side of the the "altar" right above the tree you will see a little picuture of Mary with her head down looking sad.

-Post #1, 1st pic, the "altar girl" behind the woman doing animal charades (im guessing she is a monkey?) is facing the wrong way.

-Post #1, 2nd pic, if you look into the first wine pitcher you can see a face in the right-side part of the wine.

-Post#1, 2nd pic, one of the pitchers doesnt match the other two.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, the main candle is burned out.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, Even the kids turn their backs to Britney.

-Post #1, 2nd & 3rd pic, the priest is wearing a womans watch and britney is wearing a mans watch.

Post #13, 1st pic, a candle in the left side in the back is burned out.

Post #13, 1st pic, one guy on the steps on the left with his back turned cant take it and throws up in a bag.

-Post #13, the 2nd pic, the first woman in blue only has one foot.

-Post #13, 2nd pic, the guy in the middle cant keep it to himself.

So what do you guys think? Have I lost it from looking at such disrespect of the mass? If this is real, then what was going on here? This cant be allowed, can it?

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 1:06 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:


-Post #1, 1st pic, if you look carefully INTO the side of the the "altar" right above the tree you will see a little picuture of Mary with her head down looking sad.

-Post #1, 1st pic, the "altar girl" behind the woman doing animal charades (im guessing she is a monkey?) is facing the wrong way.

-Post #1, 2nd pic, if you look into the first wine pitcher you can see a face in the right-side part of the wine.

-Post#1, 2nd pic, one of the pitchers doesnt match the other two.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, the main candle is burned out.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, Even the kids turn their backs to Britney.

-Post #1, 2nd & 3rd pic, the priest is wearing a womans watch and britney is wearing a mans watch.

Post #13, 1st pic, a candle in the left side in the back is burned out.

Post #13, 1st pic, one guy on the steps on the left with his back turned cant take it and throws up in a bag.

-Post #13, the 2nd pic, the first woman in blue only has one foot.

-Post #13, 2nd pic, the guy in the middle cant keep it to himself.




what are you on?

they are real photos.

Catholic Dude Mar 8, '05 1:11 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
what are you on?

they are real photos.

First of all, Im on a chair.

I know they are real, I just dont believe my eyes.

St.Claire Mar 8, '05 1:14 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Catholic Dude
(First of all is this real? Did someone use photoshop or is this really a Catholic mass?)

So here is what I saw that nobody talked about.

-Post #1, 1st pic, if you look carefully INTO the side of the the "altar" right above the tree you will see a little picuture of Mary with her head down looking sad.

-Post #1, 1st pic, the "altar girl" behind the woman doing animal charades (im guessing she is a monkey?) is facing the wrong way.

-Post #1, 2nd pic, if you look into the first wine pitcher you can see a face in the right-side part of the wine.

-Post#1, 2nd pic, one of the pitchers doesnt match the other two.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, the main candle is burned out.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, Even the kids turn their backs to Britney.

-Post #1, 2nd & 3rd pic, the priest is wearing a womans watch and britney is wearing a mans watch.

Post #13, 1st pic, a candle in the left side in the back is burned out.

Post #13, 1st pic, one guy on the steps on the left with his back turned cant take it and throws up in a bag.

-Post #13, the 2nd pic, the first woman in blue only has one foot.

-Post #13, 2nd pic, the guy in the middle cant keep it to himself.

So what do you guys think? Have I lost it from looking at such disrespect of the mass? If this is real, then what was going on here? This cant be allowed, can it?

I'm laughing so hard :rotfl:

Scarlet Mar 8, '05 1:37 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Is there a mandatory retirement age for Cardinals? How old is the Cardinal? I was just thinking that maybe it will take retirement of the Cardinal to put things back on the right track.

Does anybody know who appointed him Cardinal?

In Christ,
Scarlet

fix Mar 8, '05 1:40 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet
Is there a mandatory retirement age for Cardinals? How old is the Cardinal? I was just thinking that maybe it will take retirement of the Cardinal to put things back on the right track.

Does anybody know who appointed him Cardinal?

In Christ,
Scarlet

JPII appointed him.

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 2:59 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:


Is there a mandatory retirement age for Cardinals? How old is the Cardinal? I was just thinking that maybe it will take retirement of the Cardinal to put things back on the right track.

Does anybody know who appointed him Cardinal?

the retirement age is 80. he just turned 69. things were very different when JPII appointed him in '85 and elevated him in '91. there are politics involved too. it doesn't look very good if the archbishop of the largest u.s. diocese is passed over, after his predecessor (a cardinal) dies. he is only one of 1200 others. most of those others aren't blind. (i hope)

bear06 Mar 8, '05 3:35 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
For anyone doubting the date/authenticity of the pics go here:
http://www.recongress.org/ and you can look at all the pics from this year and previous years. The moderators have asked not to post full size pictures on the forums.

Catholic29 Mar 8, '05 3:42 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/y...d_P2170229.jpg
Here are some more of Mahony's Maidens, the Cardinal is in there somewhere, see the red beenie?

I wonder what Cardinal Arinze's office in the Vatican has to say about this? And is it even allowed in the current language of the GIRM?

All very lamentable if you ask me...http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_20.gif

Catholic29 Mar 8, '05 3:50 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bear06
The moderators have asked not to post full size pictures on the forums.

OOPS!!!
Now you tell me...http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_20_1.gif

Fogny Mar 8, '05 4:03 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
The theme for the above conference is grace

Our theme, “Awake to Grace,” shakes us out of our inattentiveness, our complacency. Summoned to wake up, we discover grace in places, situations, where we would not expect it at all: around us, among the littlest, the poorest, in the still small voices, in the loud clamors for change, renewal and transformation – and no less in the deepest core of ourselves where the birth of Christ unceasingly repeats itself.

– Sr. Edith Prendergast, RSC

Director, Office of Religious Education

Dr. Bombay Mar 8, '05 4:28 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nota Bene
All you are doing is compounding your boorishness...

sweetheart, you started the name calling. My original post wasn't even addressed to you. If I want your opinion, I'll ask for it.

Otherwise, go pound sand. :D

God saves Mar 8, '05 10:31 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleSinner
The singer is not in a very modest pose especially with that slit half way up her skirt. It appears From this photo our Southern CA teenage girls had front row seats.

I was sick when I saw this photo with the teens viewing this sacrilege and immodest display. The singer looks like she just rolled in from the cage in a strip club. I attended one of these poor excuses for Holy Mass at the Religious Conference several years ago and was so appalled then that I decided never to submit myself to this sort of torture and lack of reverence again. I see that the show has degenerated even further. I am so sad.

God saves and He will eventually save us from this.

m134e5 Mar 9, '05 2:12 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. That looks like a broadway play (only broadway is better, and the actors don't always look like they're on drugs). A parish in my town is organizing a prayer service for Pentecost that will include dance. I definitely will not be attending that.

Liturgical dance, Kool-Aid style altar vessels, Teenaged Ballerinas dancing VERY close to the Cardinal, a scantily clad singer who looks like she's on drugs, and a woman who looks drunk dancing down the steps of the sanctuary.

"Out of the depths, I cry to Thee, O Lord..." (Psalm 130)

HumbleSinner Mar 9, '05 5:36 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Read about what kind of speakers they had at the RE Congress. Click on link below.

Beware all L.A. and Orange Diocese Parishioners of Cardinal Mahony's RE Congress

tpmjr42 Mar 10, '05 2:15 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
the retirement age is 80. he just turned 69. things were very different when JPII appointed him in '85 and elevated him in '91. there are politics involved too. it doesn't look very good if the archbishop of the largest u.s. diocese is passed over, after his predecessor (a cardinal) dies. he is only one of 1200 others. most of those others aren't blind. (i hope)

I thought the retirement age for a diocesan ordinary was 75? (I could be wrong).

tpmjr42 Mar 10, '05 2:28 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
....... the worst thing is that these photos don't show the half of it. mahoney's idea of the holy liturgy is performance, audience, hyperventalating euphoria, entertainment. people in the pews and money in the basket.
.........for those of you who are indignant about the little things that happen in your parishes, this stuff will make its way to you soon. this is a catechists' convention. the people go with the intention of 'learning' and then 'teaching' in their parishes. it is a slow moving, deadly disease. these lemmings suck it in. they applaud after every 'hymn' (i call it "number")
.....

I live in the archdiocese as well. The problem runs deeper that you might think. From what I'm told by someone who has attended some of the archdiocesan liturgy meeting, many of the "liturgists" consider the Cardinal Mahony to be........................ "conservative." :eek: :confused:

GloriaPatri4 Mar 10, '05 2:38 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
article from Los Angeles Lay Catholic Mission
http://www.losangelesmission.com/ed/...s/0503news.htm


Quote:

CHOCK FULL OF VARIETY. The 2005 Religious Education Congress, put on by the archdiocese of Los Angeles, promised to be a multi-cultural smorgasbord, said the February 5 Tidings. "I think we have tried to bring together talent from across cultures and generations that will awake us to grace," Sister Edith Prendergast, archdiocesan directress of religious education, said. As part of the fare, Bishop Gabino Zavala was to preside at the "Mass of the Americas/Misa de las Americas," to honor "the richness and giftedness of the many cultures of the Americas." Other Masses promised were jazz, "contemplative," and "general" liturgies, and one "planned by and for youth." In addition, there were to be "Masses centering on various traditions including Celtic, Hispanic, Samoan and Black culture."
Special events slated for this year's Religious Education Congress included "multi-sensory ways for participants to become attuned to the presence of the Spirit." These "feasts for the soul, heart, eyes and ears" were to provide "opportunities for Eucharistic Adoration, Labyrinth-walking, Marion art works viewing and contemplative music listening."

Catholic29 Mar 10, '05 3:12 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Special events slated for this year's Religious Education Congress included "multi-sensory ways for participants to become attuned to the presence of the Spirit." These "feasts for the soul, heart, eyes and ears" were to provide "opportunities for Eucharistic Adoration, Labyrinth-walking, Marion art works viewing and contemplative music listening."
Adoration of our divine Savior truly present in the Blessed Sacrament was just one spiritual option among many at his years RE congress. I must admit the Archdiocese of L.A. has a very peculiar way of showcasing its Catholicism.:ehh:

Los Angeles is not titled the City of Lost Angels for nothing, I suggest God fearing Magesterium faithful Catholics in those parts make for the hills...

Exporter Mar 10, '05 3:39 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
I think I saw a Bishop in the pictures with the girls who were dancing at that Mass. Pictures don't lie. It happened in Los Angeles right in the presence of a Bishop. I thought that Pagan stuff occured for away from a Bishop, initiated by some Leftest Radical Priest. But it seems in Los Angeles they dont try to hide it.

I wonder if the Mass being said was the Latin Mass, the Mass of the Catechumens. I suspect they were using some sort of New Mass, maybe tinkered with by that Bishop. I just can't imagine they would do that foolishness when the Original Latin Mass was being said.

I saw all those youngsters watching. How do you think they will be influenced. Twenty years from now they might bring in some animals. Perhaps a trained dog act.

tee_eff_em Mar 10, '05 3:42 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tpmjr42
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
the retirement age is 80. he just turned 69. things were very different when JPII appointed him in '85 and elevated him in '91. there are politics involved too. it doesn't look very good if the archbishop of the largest u.s. diocese is passed over, after his predecessor (a cardinal) dies. he is only one of 1200 others. most of those others aren't blind. (i hope)

I thought the retirement age for a diocesan ordinary was 75? (I could be wrong).

Two different answers for two different questions (actually, the original question was poorly worded).
  • A diocesan ordinary is requested, by Canon Law, submit his resignation upon reaching the age of 75. The holy father, however is under no obligation to immediately accept anyone's submission.
  • Similarly, a Cardinal head of a curial department is requested to submit his resignation at the age of 75, similarly non-bindingly upon the holy father.
  • A Cardinal ceases to be a Cardinal-elector upon reaching the age of 80 (unless he happens to be in conclave on his birthday, in which case he ceases to be an elector at the conclusion of the conclave).
  • But AFAIK, a Cardinal will remain a Prince of the Church until his death.
tee

JustSomeGuy Mar 10, '05 4:52 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tpmjr42
I thought the retirement age for a diocesan ordinary was 75? (I could be wrong).

for a cardinal it is 80, he is non-voting after that. i can't remember the case for cardinal-archbishop, but i am pretty sure mandatory resignation is extended to 80 also as regards the diocese. i can't remember how it worked with Cardinal Manning, but i know the pope did not immediately accept his resignation. i don't know how old he was.

GloriaPatri4 May 2, '05 12:22 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Did anyone here attend the LA RE Conference?

Panis Angelicas May 2, '05 2:48 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Some of those photos were, I believe, taken from previous Catholic Education Conferences in LA. They look very familiar.

According to the website, the theme for 2005 was Awaken to Grace.
If I can post the pic properly, this is the logo for the conference:
http://www.recongress.org/logo/2005logo.jpg

Genesis315 May 2, '05 3:28 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Here is why this kind of stuff is bad according to Benedict XVI:

Quote:

Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the "reasonable sacrifice". It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy "attractive" by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals' point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.

This action of God, which takes place through human speech, is the real "action" for which all creation is in expectation. The elements of the earth are transubstantiated, pulled, so to speak, from their creaturely anchorage, grasped at the deepest ground of their being, and changed into the Body and Blood of the Lord. The New Heaven and the New Earth are anticipated. The real "action" in the liturgy in which we are all supposed to participate is the action of God himself. This is what is new and distinctive about the Christian liturgy: God himself acts and does what is essential.





The Hidden Life May 2, '05 4:37 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Sheesh. I'm glad that at least I live in a relatively poor parish where we don't have money for these kinds of outrageous extravagant heresies!

The pictures remind me of the temple scene in "Conan the Barbarian" where the snake priestesses were whirling around getting ready to jump off into the giant snake pit.

Fast_ed75 May 2, '05 6:00 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/s...d_MVC-831S.jpg
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/s...d_MVC-787S.jpg
The Saturday Young Adult "Eucharistic Celebration"

Elzee May 2, '05 6:14 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Can someone who knows how to cut/paste these pics send them to Pope Benedict's email at the Vatican? I know he may never see it, but maybe somebody who cares will....... Do you think they REALLY know what's going on over here in some places??? God help us.

ridesawhitehors May 2, '05 6:17 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Is that Shania Twain?

tcreek1 May 2, '05 6:26 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
These pictures remind me of . . .

Liturgical Dance Notes by Mary Margaret Milbrath

Balletic slim with gently nubile curves

And sweetly graced extensions of long limbs--

They sway, step, bend to syncopated hymns.

Their mothers beam. How well, they think, dance serves

God's glory (and their own) in finer style

Than old processions jumbled full of tots,

White-veiled and bumptious, tasting nuns' DO NOTs,

Surging off center down the middle aisle.



Lord, as You look on such eclectic prayer,

Such very now liturgic elegance

With its proponents all quite blind to where

It self-creates less happy circumstance,

Hold tight and tenderly within Your care

Little fat girls who won't be asked to dance.



Or better still, this . . .

The Second Coming by WB Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.



Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Fast_ed75 May 2, '05 6:27 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
The sad thing about the whole ordeal is that Cdl. Mahony actually knows he is illicitly allowing dance and consecrated the hosts in a
wicker basket. I remember when he put out some heterodoxy "Gather Faithfully" or something advocating community meal ect- Mother Angelica called him out on it. He went berserk and tried to get her off the air. About the same time she was miraculously healed of some deformity (I cant remember exactly).

bluerose May 2, '05 6:47 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Shucks, I was expecting to see Garth Brooks come swinging down from the rafters! Or maybe he was just he choreographer...?

Wait a minute! Did you say this was a MASS!!??!?!?

BlueRose

Fast_ed75 May 2, '05 7:11 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Father Malachi Martin on Cardinal Mahony in 1997:


On the testimony of competent observers from all over North and South America as well as from Europe and from official Rome itself, the regime of His Eminence, Cardinal Mahony, has been marked by a steady de-Romanization and de-Catholicization of the once flourishing Los Angeles archdiocese.
Many priests, nuns, bishops--under His Eminence's jurisdiction--are not espousing the teaching of the Church. They follow another agenda. Under the guise of the "Spirit of Vatican II" as a catch-all for any whim and capric, there occur unauthorized liturgical innovations (for example: standing during the Consecration, omission of parts of the Mass, "liturgical" dancing, invalid bread used for Holy Communion, etc.etc.). There are rampant spiritual and canonical abuses (general absolution in place of individual confession, the use of an invalid formula for absolution, First Communion before First Reconciliation for children as the norm, sex education for children that is designed to rob them of their innocence, the pouring of Consecrated Wine down the waste faucets of bathrooms, etc.etc.). Church buildings are renovated on the basis of Environment and Art in Catholic Worship" But this document was never approved by the National Conferences of Catholic Bishops, and it reflects the personal ideas of certain individuals about whose faith one can have very legitimate doubts.

What observers remark is that an overall plan for radical change is being implemented-- but in small increments, without the overall goal being frankly and candidly stated. Many of these observers will aver that the not so obvious aim of all this change is the establishment of another non-Roman Catholic form of our Faith.

John_19_59 May 3, '05 2:37 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Face it.

This IS the fruit of the Second Vatican Council.

This has been coming a long time.

We had a perfect Mass before VII, it had absolutely no need for reform. There is not one single good reason for it to have changed.

What was wrong with it?

I speak as a person who has never attended a Latin Mass in the time since the reforms took affect - ie. I attend Novus Ordo, but I long for the return of reverence in our worship.

From 1965 the Church opened its doors to confusion and abuse.

The smoke of Satan did indeed enter the sanctuary - as Pope Paul VI said.

The Church desperately needs a proper DOGMATIC council with condemnations of errors as at previous councils. A council that clearly defines Church teaching without loopholes - something that did not happen at VII.

Then we will see who assents or not.

Then we will see the sheep and the wolves.

St Michael defend us in the day of battle, be our safegauard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.

Lord have mercy on us.

netmilsmom May 3, '05 4:01 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_ed75
I remember when he put out some heterodoxy "Gather Faithfully" or something advocating community meal ect- Mother Angelica called him out on it. He went berserk and tried to get her off the air. About the same time she was miraculously healed of some deformity (I cant remember exactly).

I would love to read more about THAT!

Trelow May 3, '05 4:46 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Lord have mercy.

contemplative May 3, '05 6:07 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
These pictures look crazy.

benedictusoblat May 3, '05 8:03 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Cardinal Mahony is probably one of the big reasons for the popularity of the traditional movement within the Church. The man offers these Ringling Brothers liturgies, invites the militant Rainbow Sash deviants to his "cathedral" and spends the rest of his free time trying to obfuscate investigations into the criminal activities of certain of his priests. It wouldn't surprise me if these activities are all interelated. It would be a real clear sign of the new pope's intentions if this man was given the post of archpriest of one of the Roman basilicas. It wouldn't hurt the basilica, and to the extent that Hollywood Mahony spent any time there, it might be beneficial to him.

frdave20 May 3, '05 8:04 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
i'm feeling nauseous.....

John_19_59 May 3, '05 8:10 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Did Malchai Martin suggest Cardinal Mahony was a Satanist?

He's very similar to a character in "Windswept House".

JoeMike May 3, '05 10:33 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exporter
Twenty years from now they might bring in some animals. Perhaps a trained dog act.

Or maybe the June Taylor Dancers doing their synchronized configurations in the baptismal tub.

bluerose May 3, '05 12:49 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMike
Or maybe the June Taylor Dancers doing their synchronized configurations in the baptismal tub.

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

I don't think there is a penance strong enough to make up for planting that image into impressionable minds... especially those like mine that haven't had but three hours of sleep in the last two days!

I may never sleep again! The horror!

BlueRose

Fortiterinre May 3, '05 3:01 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
But I will offer it up for Blue Rose, because I am the doubting Thomas who denies that things are so bad...until I see photos like this!!! Thank you for posting, give me a chance to find some Pepto and then post some more!

bluerose May 3, '05 6:05 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
:bowdown2: Bless you, my child. I think I could sleep now.

Sorry, I am out of Pepto... will a stomach pump do?

BlueRose

Fast_ed75 May 3, '05 7:05 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Michael Rose wrote about the Mother Angelica/Cardinal Mahony episode here.

MOTHER ANGELICA: Healed and Reviled


http://aquinas-multimedia.com/catherine/angelica.html

EddieArent May 3, '05 7:20 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GloriaPatri4
Did anyone here attend the LA RE Conference?




No, but my diocesean director of religious education does - on a yearly basis.

judicame May 4, '05 5:14 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
I suppose Rome knows very well what's going on. Beyond a few ambivalent statements, there's no fear of real censure let alone action. After all who made and tolerated the appointments all this time? Where does the buck stop?

This obviously goes deeper than many are prepared to admit and as long as people keep filling the collection baskets. How many people were in that huge arena? 5,000? I wonder if they had a collection.

Like another post said, let's face it, this is the spirit of Vatican 2. . It's a long way from the simple beauty and piety of the traditional Catholic Mass of course, but is it so different from the guitar and tambourine masses that immediately followed the council? And is it not, in spirit, an extension of the difference between the traditional mass and the New Order mass? So why complain?

JW10631 May 4, '05 2:45 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
If I lived there I would not set foot in a chuch under the control of Mahony or the Bishop of the Orange Diocese.

The wife and I may visit LA next year, but I will go to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy - not out of spite, but because they don't do these childish and stupid things.

Mahony should be fired. This is disgusting.

God saves May 4, '05 8:58 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleSinner
The singer is not in a very modest pose especially with that slit half way up her skirt. It appears From this photo our Southern CA teenage girls had front row seats.

Well, even though the Congress was sponsored by the Los Angeles Archdiocese and Holy Mass was offered by the Cardinal himself, it took place in the Diocese of Orange. No doubt the So. CA girls in the front row seats, and many others, were scandalized by the entire affair. So it is no surprise that when OC Altar Servers were honored at a Mass recently, they were pictured in some of the most inappropriate clothing for Mass, particularly for altar servers who should know better. Who is training the servers? The server honored as the most deserving was pictured with the Auxillary Bishop, His Excellency Bishop Jaime Soto. Her clothing was a disgrace. Why have altar girls anyway? They cannot become priests so what is the point?

God saves.

rayne89 May 4, '05 9:03 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleSinner
The singer is not in a very modest pose especially with that slit half way up her skirt. It appears From this photo our Southern CA teenage girls had front row seats.

I thought she messed up and wore it backwards.:D

kerry May 4, '05 10:00 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Am I missing something or why don't those who have liberal bishops and priests just STOP GIVING MONEY! If you don't support this trash then they will have to stop it, for lack of funds. Hit them in the pocketbook, or if not, then for Heaven's sake (and yours) stop attending these bizarre "masses" and attend an Indult Latin Mass or go to a SSPX mass. The masses are valid and none of this kind of thing goes on, ever!



Quote:

Originally Posted by fix
I am all for accuarcy, but to be honest whether the photos are from this year or last year or the year before really is almost beside the point. Has there been a grand conversion among all those in the LA diocese who promote such things? I have heard not read there has been one.

This thread only highlights what some may not know about the heterodoxy that continues in that diocese. If you corrected the record as to the dates, wonderful.

I will pray for those in that diocese and my diocese which is almost as liberal.


GloriaPatri4 May 4, '05 10:11 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by God saves
So it is no surprise that when OC Altar Servers were honored at a Mass recently, they were pictured in some of the most inappropriate clothing for Mass, particularly for altar servers who should know better. Who is training the servers? The server honored as the most deserving was pictured with the Auxillary Bishop, His Excellency Bishop Jaime Soto. Her clothing was a disgrace. Why have altar girls anyway? They cannot become priests so what is the point?

God saves.

Dear God saves,

Would you happen to have a copy of that picture? In what newspaper did you see it in?

TODD1 May 5, '05 9:39 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis315
The best word I can use to describe what was going on there is "cheesy." I couldn't imagine anyone in the "audience" actually watching this with a straight face. It looks so absurd and like such a joke.

I mean: is this for real? What a flippin' joke! I heard of such abuses, but to see this sort of foolishness boggles my mind- God save us, and God bless Pope Benedict 16th!!

UnworthySoul May 5, '05 10:37 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Absolutely sickening.

UnworthySoul May 5, '05 10:38 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry
Am I missing something or why don't those who have liberal bishops and priests just STOP GIVING MONEY! If you don't support this trash then they will have to stop it, for lack of funds. Hit them in the pocketbook, or if not, then for Heaven's sake (and yours) stop attending these bizarre "masses" and attend an Indult Latin Mass or go to a SSPX mass. The masses are valid and none of this kind of thing goes on, ever!

Latin Indult, yes.

SSPX, NO! See the Ask an Apologist board, they are NOT valid.

GloriaPatri4 Sep 9, '05 10:01 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

2005 Speaker List

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” St. Matthew 7:15



Rev. Gwynne Guibord:
Please ask why a militant Lesbian Protestant Feminist Minister who is an endorser of the Sexuality Information and Education Council’s (SIECUS’S) controversial declaration that among other things calls for a religious commitment to “sexual and reproductive rights” which is really code for abortion, has been invited to speak to you on “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism”. For more information, please do a search for her name on the Web. You will be very enlightened if you do!

Scott Appleby:
A prominent liberal on the University of Notre Dame faculty, in 1995 co-edited, with Woman Church feminist Mary Jo Weaver, “Being Right: Conservative Catholics in America”. This book is an arrogant report on “Catholic Fundamentalist” who, Weaver says, hold “presup-positions including a belief in God and in absolute truth; an assumption that God’s will can be known from Scripture and the teaching of the church; and a desire to be faithful to God by following church teaching.” Appleby’s concluding essay endorses Weaver’s opinion that traditional Catholic faithful institutions and groups are “pathetically ineffective in exercising any real influence beyond their walls, “because they prepare people “for a world that no longer exists.” Among such “fundamental--ists” the book includes pro-lifers, homeschoolers, Catholics United for the Faith and Family, the Fellowship of Catholic Scholars – and Pope John Paul II.

Fr. Gerald Coleman:
This Priest, the rector of a Major Seminary, supports so called Domestic Partner legislation, and has stated such in his article “Is Proposition 22 Discriminatory?” What does the Holy See say about this: “It is from this quarter that one is more likely to find those who seek to ‘manipulate the church by gaining the often well-intentioned support of her pastors with a view to changing civil statutes and laws” (cf. No. 5), those who use the tactic of protesting that “any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people…are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination” (cf. No. 9)

Fr. Patrick Brennan:
He has spoken out vehemently against indulgences in his homilies, yet Pope Paul VI cited the Council of Trent thusly: “The Church teaches and command that the usage of indulgences…approved by the authority of the sacred councils, should be kept in the Church and condemns as an anathema those who say that indulgences are useless, or that the Church does not have the power to grant them.” At a Call to Action meeting he said that the old Church had to hurry up and die so that the new one could be born. Based on that statement, it would seem he believes that the real Catholic Church did not exists until recent times, despite Our Lord’s saying to Simon Bar-Jona, “THOU ART PETER, AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.”

Fr. Richard Rohr:
At the March 1997 New Ways Ministry Symposium, he described his retreats at the Center for Action and Contemplation which are for men only, he describes them as involving the participants removal of clothing and touching one another in sensitive areas. (wounded areas, Fr. Rohr calls these.) Fr. Rohr was reprimanded by Archbishop Sheehan for co-presiding with Fr. Robinson at the “wedding” of a lesbian couple.

Dr. Diana Hayes:
“The Master’s tools will never dismantle the Master’s house; dismantling of the entire house is needed, from within and without, using tools of our own creation” was her keynote address to the Women’s Ordination Committee, November, 1995.

Kathleen Chesto:
At the 1994 Congress, she told her audience she has rejected the All-Good, All-Powerful, All-Loving God of Catholic teaching. Instead she proposes a limited process god who suffers with people but cannot help them.



THIS IS JUST A PARTIAL LIST, SPACE DOESN’T ALLOW A COMPLETE LIST

Ask yourself a question. Why is it that even token orthodox Catholic speakers such as Dr. Peter Kreeft, Dr. Janet Smith, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Dr. Dolores Grier, etc. are hardly ever, if ever invited back to speak at this Congress, while dissenters are almost always invited back time and time again

http://crcoa.tripod.com/archives/rel.../2005_list.htm


mgy100 Sep 9, '05 10:21 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
The sad thing is, these kinds of dances aren't liked anyway. Anyone that has had to sit through a 2 hour dance recital knows... especially after the 7th ballet dance to an ozzy osborne song.. mama i'm coming home, watching people that think they can dance... it's painful and boring to watch.

I've never seen litugical dancers. The local diocese here is what many of you would call liberal.. the bishop lets the dancing happen at the cathedral. However, in the local parish the priest would probably pull dancers out of the church by their ears if they danced during the offertory.

palmas85 Sep 10, '05 8:58 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Given everything else that has happened with the Mass specifically and the Church in general since the winds of spring entered after Vatican 11, is anyone surprised at anything at all anymore? I'm not. I just sit at home and cry. :crying: :crying: :crying:

stanley123 Sep 10, '05 5:24 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UnworthySoul
SSPX, NO! See the Ask an Apologist board, they are NOT valid.

It is somewhat curious that the SSPX Traditional Latin Masses, including those with the Gregorian chant, are not valid, according to you, but that Masses with dancing girls or clown Masses are OK, or "valid"?

Freeway4321 Sep 10, '05 8:15 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Lord have mercy.

Cardinal Mahoney. Why he is not excommunicated, I do not know...

This isnt even the half. This guy just keeps going and going. If he doesnt want to be a cardinal or a bishop, send in your resignation, please...

My cousin went to LA. He said it was one of the worst masses he has ever attended. During the eucharist everyone gathered around the altar and did some wierdness... it was horrid.

Freeway4321 Sep 10, '05 8:24 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John_19_59
Face it.

This IS the fruit of the Second Vatican Council.

This has been coming a long time.

We had a perfect Mass before VII, it had absolutely no need for reform. There is not one single good reason for it to have changed.

What was wrong with it?

I speak as a person who has never attended a Latin Mass in the time since the reforms took affect - ie. I attend Novus Ordo, but I long for the return of reverence in our worship.

From 1965 the Church opened its doors to confusion and abuse.

The smoke of Satan did indeed enter the sanctuary - as Pope Paul VI said.

The Church desperately needs a proper DOGMATIC council with condemnations of errors as at previous councils. A council that clearly defines Church teaching without loopholes - something that did not happen at VII.

Then we will see who assents or not.

Then we will see the sheep and the wolves.

St Michael defend us in the day of battle, be our safegauard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.

Lord have mercy on us.

I have had many conversations about this with my cousin who is a seminarian. He is currently studying the liturgy, and the bottom line is... it did need reform. But I personally believe we did NOT need a whole new mass, but a reform of the Tridentine. And mostly because the latin launguage was dying out in America and people no longer cared to learn it, so old ladys were praying there rosaries while the mass was going on. There were preists who were going through what is normally what? An hour mass, maybe more... in like 20 minutes. There were problems, and it needed to happen. But the Novus ordo did not, and that's my problem.

I'm no NO is NOt valid, but I dod believe it lacks on quite a few levels.

Lisa4Catholics Sep 10, '05 8:30 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_ed75
Michael Rose wrote about the Mother Angelica/Cardinal Mahony episode here.

MOTHER ANGELICA: Healed and Reviled

http://aquinas-multimedia.com/catherine/angelica.html

I love Mother Angelica and since God started that network I guess the angry Cardinal didn't have much luck shutting it down;) :p :D


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