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-   -   Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=42903)

Nota Bene Mar 7, '05 8:34 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Dang, mahony is beginning to look OLD...

Dr. Bombay Mar 8, '05 3:26 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nota Bene
As an 8th generation Californio who lives within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles I can assure you that this sort of behavior is not typical of what one is exposed to at local parishes.

I seriously doubt you have been to the Mass within the Archdiocese. Don't make a fool of yourself by making a blanket statemen for by far the largest Archdiocese in the USA based on what you read...

Don't make a fool of yourself by presuming you know anything about me by reading a few posts on the internet.

My brother lives in Los Angeles and I've visited and attended Mass there several times.

And by the way, I wasn't making a blanket statement about what one is exposed to at local parishes. I was expressing my sympathy that Catholics have this man as their shepherd.

And I did pray for all the poor Catholics in LA last night, even fools like you. :D

HumbleSinner Mar 8, '05 6:29 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert_82
I
http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/Y...d_P2170221.jpg
I usually do not post on forums, but when I saw these pictures I could not believe it.



The singer is not in a very modest pose especially with that slit half way up her skirt. It appears From this photo our Southern CA teenage girls had front row seats.

Scarlet Mar 8, '05 7:25 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
I think every picture I've ever seen of "liturgical dance" is only of women. I've never seen men prancing around in really bad costumes. But regardless, these people look goofy doing it because it is alien to the mass and our culture.

And one other thing. I really wonder when I see pictures like that of the Cardinal during the consecration, and knowing that he approves of all the dancing if he isn't tired of celebrating mass. He just doesn't strike me as somebody who really cares.

In Christ,
Scarlet

fix Mar 8, '05 7:30 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
AmChurch anyone? And some still claim there is no war going on within the church.

Friar David, O.Carm Mar 8, '05 8:00 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet
I think every picture I've ever seen of "liturgical dance" is only of women. I've never seen men prancing around in really bad costumes. But regardless, these people look goofy doing it because it is alien to the mass and our culture.

And one other thing. I really wonder when I see pictures like that of the Cardinal during the consecration, and knowing that he approves of all the dancing if he isn't tired of celebrating mass. He just doesn't strike me as somebody who really cares.

In Christ,
Scarlet

I have seen a man doing liturgical "dance". He was in, what I can only call, a body stocking. It was disgusting.

At the time of the reading of the Gospel, he "danced" the Gospel book down the aisle. The Gospel was not carried in the Entrance Procession.

I put the word "dance" in quotes when saying liturgical "dance" becuase what they are doing is not any dance I have ever seen. It does not resemble any folk dancing of Europe which most Americans ancestors come from nor does it resemble any other folk dancing I have seen.

It does seem to look a lot like the drug induced euphoria of the hippies from the sixties. Reminds me a lot of the old movies that show the crowds at Woodstock.

It is nothing more than a bunch of prancing and hopping around.

Genesis315 Mar 8, '05 8:11 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
The best word I can use to describe what was going on there is "cheesy." I couldn't imagine anyone in the "audience" actually watching this with a straight face. It looks so absurd and like such a joke.

fix Mar 8, '05 8:17 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis315
The best word I can use to describe what was going on there is "cheesy." I couldn't imagine anyone in the "audience" actually watching this with a straight face. It looks so absurd and like such a joke.

I think the best word to use is moronic.

Tantum ergo Mar 8, '05 8:20 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Lord, have mercy on us.

I have an idea ("Oh, no! Tantum's got another idea!")

For Divine Mercy Sunday (April 3), let's see if we can get a huge group who will pray the Novena (starting Good Friday) with the intention of atonement for this and other Mass abuses, and petition for good, solid, unified, Catholic liturgy throughout the nation.

Jakub Mar 8, '05 8:55 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
I wonder if Rome will comment on this event, I am sure that the word on this has reached there via the internet.

And what should we think if there is no comment ?

james

Kelly Mar 8, '05 9:11 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantum ergo
Lord, have mercy on us.

I have an idea ("Oh, no! Tantum's got another idea!")

For Divine Mercy Sunday (April 3), let's see if we can get a huge group who will pray the Novena (starting Good Friday) with the intention of atonement for this and other Mass abuses, and petition for good, solid, unified, Catholic liturgy throughout the nation.

Good idea Tantum. I for one will join in. Seeing pictures like this, makes me ever the more grateful for my parish and Archdiocese (Mobile). :)

Tantum ergo Mar 8, '05 9:24 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Thanks, and welcome, Kelly.
God bless you!

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 10:48 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
i live in the l.a. archdiocese. first, to be fair to the cardinal (which truthfully is the last thing i think he deserves) these pictures are not from the 2005 congress. the original poster should clarify what his/her source is. note that each year the theme/title of the congress is projected on the backdrop. that is not this year's theme. i think it is from a few years ago. also, this year the congress occurred during lent and (surprisingly) the vestments conformed to the season. he is in green in one of these photos. i believe that these photos were taken before the new GIRM and RS. it seems unfair to factually distort the situation.

that being said, don't let me give the false impression that things have changed, or that it has not become worse.

Quote:

When I look at those photos and see the body of christ consecrated in a wicker basket...
also in the interest of fairness, the hosts that are consecretated are not just laying in a giant basket. there are metal bowls stacked up in the basket, which are handed to the priests, deacons, and ems at communion time. they are not extremely nice metal bowls, but Jesus isn't just falling all over the floor through the wicker either. a mass this size is only done once or twice a year. if you think they're going to buy 40 gold ciboria and chalices in order to distribute Communion, you are dreaming. its not the vatican where this size of mass occurs daily. other bishops are in the same predicament. i doubt they have super nice vessels at the world youth day mass, etc. as long as they are reserved for the Eucharist only, other criteria of beauty, etc. become a matter of taste and culture.(note the adaptations in the GIRM)

so being one who was in attendance this year and years past, here's a few things to take note of. in the first photo note the cross being carried by the server. it is not a crucifix. there is no crucifix present at any of the masses.(GIRM 297, 308) btw, it's "liturgical movement" because liturgical dance is not allowed. (that's not a joke.)

look to the right on the stage, and notice that there is a large group of bishops and/or cardinals there. every year his auxiliaries plus others from all over the world are there. he has comrades in his mischief. they seem to be all smiles, etc. in my opinion, this is a huge indication of the kind of problem and why the vatican doesn't just jump on this. keep in mind that this event doesn't occur in his diocese. the bishop of orange is a co-conspiritor also.

the pitchers are commonplace since the cardinal issued a statement in '04 that RS doesn't apply to him or his diocese.

i don't know for sure, but i'd bet my last beer that the photo with the singer is from the youth day mass (thursday, the day before congress starts) where about 10,000 youth are shown this ****. he knows what he doing; he thinks that he is changing the Church in the future. the message is Church=good, cardinal=good, this mass=good, this mass=Church, etc. the saddest part of the whole thing.

the worst thing is that these photos don't show the half of it. mahoney's idea of the holy liturgy is performance, audience, hyperventalating euphoria, entertainment. people in the pews and money in the basket.

so who's fault is it? it is easy to blame him, but the real problem is the people who judge their parish, etc. according to their likes and dislikes and then shop around for what pleases them. they abandon parishes, bad mouth bishops... the people who know what's right have abandonned all the places where this stuff happens. yeah there are a few who will post back "not me" but it is the majority that counts. so for all of you who have abandonned what you should be fighting for, you get half the blame. i sit in my parish alone every sunday.

for those of you who are indignant about the little things that happen in your parishes, this stuff will make its way to you soon. this is a catechists' convention. the people go with the intention of 'learning' and then 'teaching' in their parishes. it is a slow moving, deadly disease. these lemmings suck it in. they applaud after every 'hymn' (i call it "number")

just because Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail, that doesn't mean you and i and our neighbors will remain part of that which the gates of hell will not prevail against. the u.s doesn't have to survive in order for Jesus to be true too his word.

if you are brave enough, you should all try to get to this thing. your heart will be shaken to its core. you'll realise that the battle is not this or that sentence in the GIRM or RS; its about the calculated undermining to the Church itself.

fix Mar 8, '05 11:02 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Every time someone posts about a liturgical abuse in their parish someone else will tell them not to worry and stop being the liturgy police. One can't win it seems.

Your half defense of Mahony seems hollow to me. While he may not carry all the blame he is in charge and he must desire all this rubbish to go on. His history is well known. No defense is possible.

miguel Mar 8, '05 11:19 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
...so who's fault is it? it is easy to blame him, but the real problem is the people who judge their parish, etc. according to their likes and dislikes and then shop around for what pleases them. they abandon parishes, bad mouth bishops... the people who know what's right have abandonned all the places where this stuff happens. yeah there are a few who will post back "not me" but it is the majority that counts. so for all of you who have abandonned what you should be fighting for, you get half the blame. i sit in my parish alone every sunday...

You're right. This stuff has to be fought. And there are different ways to go about it. Going down to your parish (where hardly anyone knows you because you only show up once a week for Mass but are otherwise not involved) and taking a hostile approach is one way. But it isn't very effective. I've found that you have to give people some time to get to know you. Once they get to know you, and you have shown them respect and vice versa, they're more likely to listen to you when you have a critique. And you shouldn't try to critique everything that's wrong. That's a good way to stick out like a sore thumb. Pick one or two things to work on. And don't forget what's most important. In my parish, good people have integrated adoration of the Blessed Sacrament into the youth program. And the youth have responded beautifully. Don't underestimate the power of Christ to really rock the boat.


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