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-   -   Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=42903)

WBOZ Mar 8, '05 11:35 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Fix-

The reply by JustSomeGuy should in no way be read as a defense (either half, quarter or otherwise) of Cardinal Mahoney or Bishop Brown (current bishop of Orange California diocese and cosponsor of this debacle) but rather, I believe, a legitimate correction to inaccurate facts included with the original post. If we want our critiques of Cardinal Mahoney, and those within the US Church who are like him, to not be dismissed as polemical or riddled with inaccuracies we need to be accurate to the smallest (albeit probably inconsequential) details and not overstate our case.
As a returning Californian, (back since 5/04, but born and raised in the state) but a relatively new Catholic (I was recieved into the Church in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia in 1998) I have been greatly dismayed by the state of the Church here, but like JustSomeGuy I see no point in church-hopping/parish-shopping. My Pastor is weak, overly concerned with "not being reactionary" and otherwise uninspiring to me and my family (wife and four children). Abandoning the local parish I believe will simply exacerbate the problem and do nothing to bring about a return to reverence within this diocese.

By the way, my mother-in-law strongly encouraged my wife and I to attend this congress with her. After looking at the speakers list and looking into their backgrounds and written material I could not in good conscience give a dime to this charade. The abuses perpetrated in the pictures will be the least of the worries for local Catholics if Religious Education Directors and Catechists try to bring the things they learned at this conference back to their parishes.

Continue to pray for the all those of us suffering here in Southern California.

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 11:40 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fix
Every time someone posts about a liturgical abuse in their parish someone else will tell them not to worry and stop being the liturgy police. One can't win it seems.

Your half defense of Mahony seems hollow to me. While he may not carry all the blame he is in charge and he must desire all this rubbish to go on. His history is well known. No defense is possible.

i am not defending him. i'm saying we have to be fair, accurate, and practical. these photos are not what they were proported to be. and some other observations were a little skewed. don't get me wrong, mahoney is the bad guy. but so are those who vilify him without recourse to the truth. and so are they who turn and run.

as for liturgy police, etc.: i've read some pretty un-Christ-like comments and attitudes on these forums. if you're all about punishment and figuring out who to throw into the hellfire first first, then you are the enemy too. i think that's what a lot of the reaction is on these forums. because, frankly, if that is what i am going to turn into by caring about the Mass and the Church, warn me now. i'll stop. becoming like the enemy under the guise of battling against him is defeat no matter how you look at it.

Fogny Mar 8, '05 11:40 am

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV
It's like he's telling the Holy See, "Kiss my grits!"

There is a cancer in the Church and it is not catholic. My Mom used to say "the fish rots from the head".Will Rome someday do something?? I thank god for the Latin Rite Indult Mass because compared to this it is a beacon of Catholicity.

Fogny

Nota Bene Mar 8, '05 12:07 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Bombay
Don't make a fool of yourself by presuming you know anything about me by reading a few posts on the internet.

My brother lives in Los Angeles and I've visited and attended Mass there several times.

And by the way, I wasn't making a blanket statement about what one is exposed to at local parishes. I was expressing my sympathy that Catholics have this man as their shepherd.

And I did pray for all the poor Catholics in LA last night, even fools like you. :D

All you are doing is compounding your boorishness...

Nota Bene Mar 8, '05 12:15 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

...if you think they're going to buy 40 gold ciboria and chalices in order to distribute Communion, you are dreaming...

...the pitchers are commonplace since the cardinal issued a statement in '04 that RS doesn't apply to him or his diocese...

I am certain there are more than 40 gold (or gold/glass) ciboriums and chalices available in the sacristy at Roj Mahony -- the new cathedral.

Mahony does not have the authority to discount RS. He non-compliance (even though he is supposidly waiting for a second responsum) is sickening.

fix Mar 8, '05 12:17 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WBOZ
Fix-

The reply by JustSomeGuy should in no way be read as a defense (either half, quarter or otherwise) of Cardinal Mahoney or Bishop Brown (current bishop of Orange California diocese and cosponsor of this debacle) but rather, I believe, a legitimate correction to inaccurate facts included with the original post. If we want our critiques of Cardinal Mahoney, and those within the US Church who are like him, to not be dismissed as polemical or riddled with inaccuracies we need to be accurate to the smallest (albeit probably inconsequential) details and not overstate our case.
As a returning Californian, (back since 5/04, but born and raised in the state) but a relatively new Catholic (I was recieved into the Church in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia in 1998) I have been greatly dismayed by the state of the Church here, but like JustSomeGuy I see no point in church-hopping/parish-shopping. My Pastor is weak, overly concerned with "not being reactionary" and otherwise uninspiring to me and my family (wife and four children). Abandoning the local parish I believe will simply exacerbate the problem and do nothing to bring about a return to reverence within this diocese.

By the way, my mother-in-law strongly encouraged my wife and I to attend this congress with her. After looking at the speakers list and looking into their backgrounds and written material I could not in good conscience give a dime to this charade. The abuses perpetrated in the pictures will be the least of the worries for local Catholics if Religious Education Directors and Catechists try to bring the things they learned at this conference back to their parishes.

Continue to pray for the all those of us suffering here in Southern California.

I am all for accuarcy, but to be honest whether the photos are from this year or last year or the year before really is almost beside the point. Has there been a grand conversion among all those in the LA diocese who promote such things? I have heard not read there has been one.

This thread only highlights what some may not know about the heterodoxy that continues in that diocese. If you corrected the record as to the dates, wonderful.

I will pray for those in that diocese and my diocese which is almost as liberal.

fix Mar 8, '05 12:20 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
i am not defending him. i'm saying we have to be fair, accurate, and practical. these photos are not what they were proported to be. and some other observations were a little skewed. don't get me wrong, mahoney is the bad guy. but so are those who vilify him without recourse to the truth. and so are they who turn and run.

as for liturgy police, etc.: i've read some pretty un-Christ-like comments and attitudes on these forums. if you're all about punishment and figuring out who to throw into the hellfire first first, then you are the enemy too. i think that's what a lot of the reaction is on these forums. because, frankly, if that is what i am going to turn into by caring about the Mass and the Church, warn me now. i'll stop. becoming like the enemy under the guise of battling against him is defeat no matter how you look at it.

I disagree with your views. Most on these forums are fair, but strict. I am not worried about too much preaching on hell fire, it is the opposite that has gotten us to the point where a cardinal can defy Rome and the most we come up with is to dot our i's before pointing out the lunancy.

JKirkLVNV Mar 8, '05 12:24 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogny
There is a cancer in the Church and it is not catholic. My Mom used to say "the fish rots from the head".Will Rome someday do something?? I thank god for the Latin Rite Indult Mass because compared to this it is a beacon of Catholicity.

Fogny

And though I've never been to one, in this instance, I'm sure I would agree whole-heartedly!

Catholic Dude Mar 8, '05 12:40 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
(First of all is this real? Did someone use photoshop or is this really a Catholic mass?)

So here is what I saw that nobody talked about.

-Post #1, 1st pic, if you look carefully INTO the side of the the "altar" right above the tree you will see a little picuture of Mary with her head down looking sad.

-Post #1, 1st pic, the "altar girl" behind the woman doing animal charades (im guessing she is a monkey?) is facing the wrong way.

-Post #1, 2nd pic, if you look into the first wine pitcher you can see a face in the right-side part of the wine.

-Post#1, 2nd pic, one of the pitchers doesnt match the other two.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, the main candle is burned out.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, Even the kids turn their backs to Britney.

-Post #1, 2nd & 3rd pic, the priest is wearing a womans watch and britney is wearing a mans watch.

Post #13, 1st pic, a candle in the left side in the back is burned out.

Post #13, 1st pic, one guy on the steps on the left with his back turned cant take it and throws up in a bag.

-Post #13, the 2nd pic, the first woman in blue only has one foot.

-Post #13, 2nd pic, the guy in the middle cant keep it to himself.

So what do you guys think? Have I lost it from looking at such disrespect of the mass? If this is real, then what was going on here? This cant be allowed, can it?

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 1:06 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:


-Post #1, 1st pic, if you look carefully INTO the side of the the "altar" right above the tree you will see a little picuture of Mary with her head down looking sad.

-Post #1, 1st pic, the "altar girl" behind the woman doing animal charades (im guessing she is a monkey?) is facing the wrong way.

-Post #1, 2nd pic, if you look into the first wine pitcher you can see a face in the right-side part of the wine.

-Post#1, 2nd pic, one of the pitchers doesnt match the other two.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, the main candle is burned out.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, Even the kids turn their backs to Britney.

-Post #1, 2nd & 3rd pic, the priest is wearing a womans watch and britney is wearing a mans watch.

Post #13, 1st pic, a candle in the left side in the back is burned out.

Post #13, 1st pic, one guy on the steps on the left with his back turned cant take it and throws up in a bag.

-Post #13, the 2nd pic, the first woman in blue only has one foot.

-Post #13, 2nd pic, the guy in the middle cant keep it to himself.




what are you on?

they are real photos.

Catholic Dude Mar 8, '05 1:11 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
what are you on?

they are real photos.

First of all, Im on a chair.

I know they are real, I just dont believe my eyes.

St.Claire Mar 8, '05 1:14 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Catholic Dude
(First of all is this real? Did someone use photoshop or is this really a Catholic mass?)

So here is what I saw that nobody talked about.

-Post #1, 1st pic, if you look carefully INTO the side of the the "altar" right above the tree you will see a little picuture of Mary with her head down looking sad.

-Post #1, 1st pic, the "altar girl" behind the woman doing animal charades (im guessing she is a monkey?) is facing the wrong way.

-Post #1, 2nd pic, if you look into the first wine pitcher you can see a face in the right-side part of the wine.

-Post#1, 2nd pic, one of the pitchers doesnt match the other two.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, the main candle is burned out.

-Post #1, 3rd pic, Even the kids turn their backs to Britney.

-Post #1, 2nd & 3rd pic, the priest is wearing a womans watch and britney is wearing a mans watch.

Post #13, 1st pic, a candle in the left side in the back is burned out.

Post #13, 1st pic, one guy on the steps on the left with his back turned cant take it and throws up in a bag.

-Post #13, the 2nd pic, the first woman in blue only has one foot.

-Post #13, 2nd pic, the guy in the middle cant keep it to himself.

So what do you guys think? Have I lost it from looking at such disrespect of the mass? If this is real, then what was going on here? This cant be allowed, can it?

I'm laughing so hard :rotfl:

Scarlet Mar 8, '05 1:37 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Is there a mandatory retirement age for Cardinals? How old is the Cardinal? I was just thinking that maybe it will take retirement of the Cardinal to put things back on the right track.

Does anybody know who appointed him Cardinal?

In Christ,
Scarlet

fix Mar 8, '05 1:40 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet
Is there a mandatory retirement age for Cardinals? How old is the Cardinal? I was just thinking that maybe it will take retirement of the Cardinal to put things back on the right track.

Does anybody know who appointed him Cardinal?

In Christ,
Scarlet

JPII appointed him.

JustSomeGuy Mar 8, '05 2:59 pm

Re: Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference
 
Quote:


Is there a mandatory retirement age for Cardinals? How old is the Cardinal? I was just thinking that maybe it will take retirement of the Cardinal to put things back on the right track.

Does anybody know who appointed him Cardinal?

the retirement age is 80. he just turned 69. things were very different when JPII appointed him in '85 and elevated him in '91. there are politics involved too. it doesn't look very good if the archbishop of the largest u.s. diocese is passed over, after his predecessor (a cardinal) dies. he is only one of 1200 others. most of those others aren't blind. (i hope)


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