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-   -   Opus Dei - Penance and mortification (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=562559)

mariafransisca1 May 17, '11 2:46 am

Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Jesus, I unite this with your most sorrowful passion, for the conversion of sinners, perserverance of the just, and relief for souls in purgatory, and as a penance for my sins

http://www.cilice.co.uk/

St. Jose Maria Escriva
http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/the_way.htm

Saints who practiced corporal mortifications:

St. Gemma Galgani
(www.stgemmagalgani.com)
St. Faustina Kowalska

St. Anthony Mary Claret


All lived in 19th century:thumbsup:

And almost all saints practice mortifications, the most severe was Blessed Henry Suso, St. Ignatius Loyola

Let us save souls for Jesus, and do penance for our sins, always in unity with the infinite merits of the sorrowful passion of Jesus.

We can reduce our time in purgatory by doing this.

It's too bad that the comforts of modernity has leaked even to the catholic church. I see churches with air conditioner, and the priests wear crocs plastic shoe

By the way,
Here is the book Imitation of Christ by Thomas a kempis
http://www.saintsworks.net/books/Tho...f%20Christ.pdf

just for you


----
http://chastityislove.blogspot.com

http://catholicholybible.blogspot.com/

paperwight66 May 17, '11 6:31 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 

I fail to see what's wrong with either of those, especially the air-con. Not everyone who goes to chuch is in the best of health. Would you rather people fainted?

As for croc shoes. I've found them a mortification, personally! So sticky!

I think what you are forgetting is that mortification should be secret, and ideally, personal.

Fasting would be a penance for the greedy, but not so for an anorexic.

Imposing physical suffering on oneself would be healthy for someone who is lazy, but unhealthy for the masochistic or for someone with body issues.

Giving up social events would be a trial for me, but not for my OH, who hates social occasions, due to deafness.

I love rocks May 17, '11 7:00 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
I believe in Penance, and the humbling of one's self - denying the flesh and giving full reign to the Spirit. I'm not so sure Mortification is for everybody - and let me clarify - I mean the type of mortifications the great saints of the church have often been called to. I truely believe you must be called to it. We are all called to self-mortification - choosing the lowest seat, burning (figuratively) that wicked flesh and all its desires. But Blessed Kateri whipped herself. St Francis of Assisi rolled in thorny rose bushes... They were called to this deeper morification.
As a Catholic woman, I understand the great holiness of this. I understand that whenever righteousness comes in contact with wickedness there is suffering. We live in a world filled to the brim with pain and suffering, wickedness and agony. There are so many sufferings in our daily lives, so many woundings to overcome. We can enter into the crosses the good Lord sends us with a spirit of joy, gratitude, and peace only through the power of God. Is this not also mortification? I can't speak for everyone else, but I have had so many profound tramas in my life that I spend my whole life trying to cooperate with God to survive and be healed of them.
I see our children (not mortification) cutting themselves from the inexpressible pain our wicked generation has given them without the coping skills to get through it. I have no definite opinion either way - like one mortificaton is always right for everyone.
Sirach 30:21 says - "do not give yourself over to sorrow, and do not afflict yourself deliberately. But, at the same time, Jesus appears to many holy saints throughout church history - St. Maria Faustina, Blessed Josepha Menendez, and many others, and offers them to wear his crown of thorns, St. Padre Pio - he offers the stigmata. I think you must be called to it, or else you are going against what God has said.
I also understand exactly what you mean when you say people have basically gotten away from any type of discomfort, preferring to pursue hedonistic pleasures. (I'm paraphrasing) I remember when my kids were younger and we would go to Mass. They asked me once (once was all it took), why we have to kneel before the tabernacle. I explained to them, "Sweetie, it's because there's not enough room for all of us to get on our faces to worship before a Holy God." They got it.
Now, I have Sciaticia. That means that when my hips and spine dislocate, I have pinched sciatic nerves shooting up and down my body. It's excruciating. I still kneel before my precious Lord, Jesus truely present in the Holy Eucharist. People sometimes ask me why, when I could easily be released from that form of pyhsical worship. I say - because I still have knees. Kneeling is the stance of a sinner before God. I'm still a sinner. If I don't have legs someday, then perhaps I would forgo that out of necessity. But - I've been horribly systematically abused, beaten, stalked, rejected, survived my natural mother trying to abort me before Roe v. Wade, been adopted into a family who didn't love me, tormented by siblings, survived a sibling I was very close to, taking her life.. should I be learning how to scourge myself, or has God given me sufficient agonies for this day?
I think some of us need to learn how to not to beat ourselves up, but to learn to be tender and kind to ourselves and others. That's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

puzzleannie May 17, '11 7:09 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paperwight66 (Post 7878418)
I fail to see what's wrong with either of those, especially the air-con. Not everyone who goes to chuch is in the best of health. Would you rather people fainted?

s.

I think the entire concept of personal penance and mortification loses its spiritual value completely when it becomes a platform to criticize the private spiritual practices of others and to make judgements about them based on simple observation. If anything about my own spiritual life causes me to be judgmental about others it is a signal I need to discern immediately with my spiritual director, and go to confession if necessary.

mariafransisca1 May 17, '11 2:47 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Let me clarify, I do not judge, I am saddened by the condition of the church, succumbing to modernity, comfort, and pleasures of the senses which is contrary to the Cross of Christ.

Jesus is on the cross, suffer hunger, thirst, poverty, even all his life, before his agony on the cross, he lead a mortified life, and St. Anthony mary claret said that in the 30 years of his life he only ate bread and water, except after his ministry, where he ate what is served including fish.

How come our master life in suffering for us and we life in comfort?

And Jesus says, unless you do The Father's Will, we will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

what is his will?

To take up our cross, and follow him

May the merciful Jesus lead you to salvation and grant you understanding about the treasures of mortification , for our souls, and for the conversion of sinners

I also do not mean to brag about it, I only want to share....:blush:
It will save your soul and break bad habits.

I myself for years try to achieve purity and break off from impurity. Without corporal mortifications, this is impossible.

Thank you, I love rocks, you seem to get my point. May the merciful Jesus bless us all. and lead us to heaven

mariafransisca1 May 17, '11 2:59 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
For I love Rocks,

I think with your sickness, you do not have to practice corporal mortifications,

it is a mortifications in itself.

It must be hard for you. I appreciate your 2 cents.

You just say this prayer each day, and it will turn to a blessing to you and to many other souls that needs your prayer and sacrifices.

Jesus I unite my suffering with your suffering on the cross, and I offer it to you for love of you and for the conversion of sinners

May the merciful Jesus bless you and grant you salvation.

I pray for you
I love you. God loves you more.

Jesus loves you, you are precious to his heart. And you are created in His image, loved with the same love as the Father loves the Son, in the holy spirit.

And called to the life of heaven. Hope for heaven. In this life, we must bear crosses, but it will come the time, where we will share life everlasting of happiness with Jesus in heaven, because of his suffering on the Cross.

He never lead a comfortable life, you see.... he suffers for love of us.

We are called to be like Jesus, thus to suffer like Jesus too for the salvation of souls

Would you like to read the diary of St. Faustina?

It will help you to endure your suffering, because she too, suffers just like all of us:

St. Faustina Diary - Divine Mercy in my soul book in pdf
http://www.saintsworks.net/books/St....0-%20Diary.pdf

Oneofthewomen May 17, '11 4:54 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
I think it is very important to remind everyone that mortification of any kind for the spiritual benefits should be done only under the guidance of a competent spiritual director.

dje101 May 28, '11 12:14 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
I'm kind of new to this whole Opus Dei and corporal mortification thing. With all respect, and sincerity, could someone explain to me what the point is of wearing the cilice or whipping oneself?

Bookcat May 31, '11 10:10 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dje101 (Post 7919429)
I'm kind of new to this whole Opus Dei and corporal mortification thing. With all respect, and sincerity, could someone explain to me what the point is

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net...tification.asp

jaaraf Jun 1, '11 6:34 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Read Number 3 "Opus Dei and Corporal Mortification"
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=6437

Bookcat Jun 1, '11 6:39 am

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaaraf (Post 7933878)
Read Number 3 "Opus Dei and Corporal Mortification"
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=6437

That section refers at the bottom to this link http://www.opusdei.org/art.php?w=32&p=9316

make sure to read also the one I linked above it too is by a Priest of Opus Dei

thistle Jun 1, '11 6:48 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mariafransisca1 (Post 7880149)
Let me clarify, I do not judge, I am saddened by the condition of the church, succumbing to modernity, comfort, and pleasures of the senses which is contrary to the Cross of Christ.

Jesus is on the cross, suffer hunger, thirst, poverty, even all his life, before his agony on the cross, he lead a mortified life, and St. Anthony mary claret said that in the 30 years of his life he only ate bread and water, except after his ministry, where he ate what is served including fish.

How come our master life in suffering for us and we life in comfort?

And Jesus says, unless you do The Father's Will, we will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

what is his will?

To take up our cross, and follow him

May the merciful Jesus lead you to salvation and grant you understanding about the treasures of mortification , for our souls, and for the conversion of sinners

I also do not mean to brag about it, I only want to share....:blush:
It will save your soul and break bad habits.

I myself for years try to achieve purity and break off from impurity. Without corporal mortifications, this is impossible.

Thank you, I love rocks, you seem to get my point. May the merciful Jesus bless us all. and lead us to heaven


What rubbish. Jesus did not tell us to whip ourselves in order to be saved. I find many Opus Dei people very judgemental. Where is the humility in that?

mariafransisca1 Jun 1, '11 7:55 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
If opus dei members lack humility and love in practicing mortification, it can be of no value, even detrimental to our salvation.

Corporal mortifications has to be done with love of God and humility. As penance for our sins and conversion of sinners, in and we unite that with the sufferings of Jesus on the cross.

It is not the fault of the Opus Dei, per se, Opus dei is founded by St. Jose Maria Escriva, under the guidance and will of God.

After the founder pass away, yes, the true spirit of Opus Dei (which means the work of God) can be altered by the imprudent predecessor.

I do not like several opus dei websites, and I do not like that The Da Vinci Code twisted it to falsehood. Da Vinci Code is erroneous.

So... We have to read the works of St. Jose Maria Escriva, to understand the spirit of Opus Dei. They are available online,
http://www.escrivaworks.org/

An can be downloaded using the program WinWSD
http://download.cnet.com/WinWSD-WebS...-10562531.html

To tell the truth, I am also new about opus dei, and I am not an opus dei member, but I do admire St. Jose Maria Escriva, and I know that it is the work of God (which sadly is twisted nowadays and created much "controversy")

But I know many saints practice corporal mortifications. With love of God.

And many books of the saints, to imitate what they do. And to imitate their love of God, most of all.
http://saintsbookscatechisms.blogspot.com/

Going to confession frequently, without paying attention of what other people think or what the priest/confessor think, is also a kind of mortification. We are willing to be humiliated for the love of God. I arm myself with these thoughts each time I go to weekly confession:)

The one saint who said that she wass to little to practice big mortifications are st. Therese of Lisieux. She said that mortifications such as scourging oneself still has much self love. And she recommends little mortifications such as taking bitter medicine little by little, sitting without touching the back of the seat, renouncing pleasures in food. But this depends on each person's call.

St. Anthony Mary Claret, a spanish priest who lived in the 1800, practice dicipline such as wearing cilice, crown of thorns, and praying with arms outstretched, or kneeling with fingers, all for love of Jesus and conversion of sinners.

Blessed Jacinta, one of the children of Fatima, who died at the age of 10, practice corporal mortifications, such as fasting, from eating and drinking, all for the love of God and conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the offenses against the immaculate heart of mary.

You can read the life of little Blessed Jacinta here, by Lucia's own words (one of the three children of Fatima, who lived until old age) here:
http://www.pastorinhos.com/livros/en/MemoriasI_en.pdf

For dje101, who ask for explanation on penance, you have to read the works of the saints to see how they practice mortifications and imitate them. That is how you "get" things.

It is basically be in resemblance with Jesus, who lived a mortified life and become like him, in Love of God and love of neighbor.

We are willing to sacrifice ourselves, even martyred, all for the love of God and conversion of sinners.

But it is interesting to remark, Blessed henry suso, practice hard mortifications and austerities for 16 years, such as wearing a belt with sharp edges for the night, scourging himself, and everyone admired him. One day, an angel appeared to him, and said that God wills him to leave this austerities, and choose the humble way of being rejected, humiliated and thought of as nothing. And he did obey, he left all his mortifications, and soon, all people mocked him as coward, reject him, and humiliate him.

And God is willing to show, that by this he is acting like a 1st class soldier, and by the former mortification, he is like 2nd class soldier (it is not exactly how it is, but much less, it means like that)

And St Therese of Lisieux, tells us who are to little to practice big mortifications, that we can battle like the first class soldier even now, when we are willing to be forgotten and thought as nought for the love of God.

If you are interested in following the little way of St. Therese of the Child Jesus, who I think, during her lifetime do not favor for big austerities, but in accepting humbly the will of God (such as sickness, death of parents, simple obedience, these little things, done with love worth much more to God than big mortifications done without love),
You can read Story of a Soul by St. Therese of Lisieux:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/ebooks...obiography.pdf

In the end of our lives, we are judged by God based on Love.
How much we love. Love of God and love of neighbor for love of God.

So these corporal mortifications section, has to be done with discretion, prudence, and with love and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If not, I think you better postpone, and practice little mortifications, such as praying with arms outstretched, renouncing pleasures in food, walking instead of riding. These are practiced by St. Anthony Mary Claret, in addition to the penance he did.

Here is St. Anthony Mary Claret's Autobiography (and you can type mortification on the "find" tab to find out about how he did mortifications)

http://www.saintsworks.net/books/St....raphy%20of.pdf

And the autobiography of St. Ignatius Loyola, to see how he, at the beginning of his conversion, practice many mortifications of this kind

Maybe we do not have to be opus dei members, but we can practice corporal mortifications according to how God call each and every one of us.

Edward H Jun 1, '11 8:09 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle (Post 7936467)
What rubbish. Jesus did not tell us to whip ourselves in order to be saved. I find many Opus Dei people very judgemental. Where is the humility in that?

..read what you wrote.....in essence..."I judge many OD people to be very judgmental".

Many? How many? More so than others? You're not looking for confirming evidence, are you? That'd be a bit judgmental.

Jesus told us to take up our cross daily...to deny ourselves. People can do this in a number of ways, depending on what they struggle with.

Humility. Maybe we could find more humility by quietly reserving judgement, for a very long time, perhaps long after we finally collect sufficient data?

That would be an act of humility.

mariafransisca1 Jun 1, '11 8:20 pm

Re: Opus Dei - Penance and mortification
 
Here is from the Autobiography of St. Anthony Mary Claret

The Jesuit rule calls for no mandatory mortifications, but there is perhaps no other order in
which they are more practiced. Some mortifications are seen, others are not, but they must all be done
with the permission of the director. On Fridays everyone fasted, and the same almost held true for
Saturdays, because that evening when each was served an egg with his salad, nobody took it. Most left
their dessert untouched, or else took very little. They also left a great part of the other dishes untouched,
and always the ones they liked best. I observed that they all ate very little any day, and that the stoutest
fathers were always the ones who ate the least.
146. There was a priest there called the spiritual father of the house,97 who nearly every day, except
Sunday, took nothing but bread and water, and did that on his knees, at a low table in the middle of the
refectory. He stayed in this posture throughout the Community's dinner or supper. Anyone who saw that
venerable man on his knees in front of the little table set with bread and water felt terribly ashamed to be
sitting comfortably and enjoying a meal.
147. There was also a father called the collector or corporal.98 On Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays,
and the vigils of important feasts, he would pass around a little blank notebook in which each person
would briefly jot down the thing he wanted to do: e.g., Father or Brother So-and-so would like to eat off
the floor, say grace before and after meals with arms outstretched in the form of a cross, serve at tables,
wash dishes, etc.
All of this was done without breaking silence, in the following manner. When the time came, the
collector would make his rounds, knock at each door, open it, and wait outside. The father inside would
come to the door, take the notebook back to his table, write on a single line what he wanted to do, and
return the notebook to the collector. Thus it was passed around to everyone. Then it was brought to the
rector, who would say, "X and Y, yes; the rest, no." The collector would make the rounds again,
knocking at and opening the door, and letting each one know, by a movement of his head, whether the
answer was yes or no.
148. Besides these external and public mortifications, there were others of a more private character,
such as wearing the cilice, small arm-chains, hairshirts; taking the discipline, etc.; cleaning chamberpots,
lavatories, sooty lamps, etc. But to do any of these things, permission was always required.
149. Some of the mortifications assigned were unasked for and hardly looked like mortifications. I
will mention a few that I experienced. I have never liked playing games, and for that reason they made
me play every Thursday when we went to a park. I begged the rector, in all simplicity, to be good
enough to let me study or pray instead. He answered me roundly that I should play and play well. I
applied myself so thoroughly to playing that I won all the games.
150. Once I noticed that one of the priests of the house had to celebrate Mass very late on feast
days, and I realized that having to wait that long fasting must have been very inconvenient for him,
although he never complained about it. Out of compassion for him I went to the Superior and told him
that, if it was his good will and pleasure, I would say a late Mass because a late breakfast didn't bother
me. Thus, the other priest could say Mass earlier at my assigned time, which was much easier. The
Superior said he would see, and the result was that from then on I was scheduled to say Mass even
earlier.
151. I have already mentioned that when I left for Rome the only books I brought with me were a
one-volume breviary and a small-print edition of the Bible, which I could read every day, since I have
always been a great reader of the Scriptures. When I got to the novitiate, they assigned me a room
supplied with all the books I would need except the Bible, which I was so attached to. When they came
to get my regular clothing they also took the Bible I had brought. I asked for it and was told, "Very
well." But the fact is that I never saw it again until the day I had to leave because of sickness; only then
97 Fr. John M. Ratti (1767-1851), a Milanese.
98 The novices called the one who passed around the notebook the portinaro, caporale, or just capo.
33
was it returned to me.99
152. The Lord did me a great favor in bringing me to Rome and introducing me for however short a
time to those virtuous fathers and brothers. I only wish that I had profited more by it. But if I haven't, my
neighbor has. It was there that I learned how to give the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius, and methods
for preaching, catechizing, hearing confessions usefully and effectively, as well as many other things
that have stood me in good stead.100 Blessed be you, my God, for being so good and merciful to me.
Make me love and serve you with all fervor; make all creatures love and serve you. All you creatures,
love and serve your God. Taste and see by experience how sweet it is to love and serve your God. My
God, my only good!


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