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-   -   Why "transgender" is a lie (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=770044)

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 11:19 am

Why "transgender" is a lie
 
A so-called "sex change" operation is a misnomer because it's not possible to change one's DNA. XY will always be XY, and XX will always be XX. Even if surgery can make a man look like a woman or a woman look like a man it's still only an appearance, a costume, a lie. The fact that "transgender" is included in the "gay" category of "LGBT" shows that they don't even believe their own lie. For if a man really could change into a woman they would be going from "gay" to straight and would not be able to be counted among the "gays" anymore. Who does a "gay" man who thinks he can change into a woman hope to attract? Another "gay" man? If the surgery is convincing wouldn't the "gay" partner be turned off by it? A straight man wouldn't want them because he knows they aren't a real woman unless they can be fooled. But how can someone be happy when they are living a lie? And what if the man who got fooled wants kids with the one who masquerades as a woman? How would the deceiver fake a pregnancy? The saying applies that goes "oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive". But as Jesus said, "the truth will make you free."

vames Mar 28, '13 11:35 am

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549141)
And what if the man who got fooled wants kids with the one who masquerades as a woman? How would the deceiver fake a pregnancy?

No need to fake a pregnancy... who needs a real woman as a wife, when you can rent a womb?
http://nymag.com/thecut/2012/12/gay-...surrogacy.html

Wonderful "business opportunities" for these companies and wonderful "working opportunities" for these rented wombs :(
http://www.surrogaycy.com/
http://www.nwsurrogacycenter.com/gay_surrogacy.html

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 11:41 am

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
The argument for doing a so-called "sex change" operation to people is purely emotional with no logic whatsoever. If I strongly believe that I'm an elephant would that make me one? How about if I had a surgery to make myself appear as an elephant, would that make me one? Of course not. I would be delusional. And the worst thing anyone could do is to play along with my delusion especially by means of a permanent surgery.

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 11:44 am

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved." - 2357, The Catechism of the Catholic Church

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings" - 2 Timothy 4:3

"and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error." - Romans 1:27

"but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes!" - Matthew 18:6-7

“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!” - Isaiah 5:20

Love the sinner, but hate the sin.

JohnTomHoc Mar 28, '13 11:50 am

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549141)
A so-called "sex change" operation is a misnomer because it's not possible to change one's DNA. XY will always be XY, and XX will always be XX.

The assumption is that chromosomal identity is the fundamental reality rather than phenotype. We don't look at people's chromosomes to see who they are, what their identity is. Doctors only do if they have to examine genetic abnormalities.


Quote:

Even if surgery can make a man look like a woman or a woman look like a man it's still only an appearance, a costume, a lie. The fact that "transgender" is included in the "gay" category of "LGBT" shows that they don't even believe their own lie. For if a man really could change into a woman they would be going from "gay" to straight and would not be able to be counted among the "gays" anymore.
The transgender community was never welcome in the gay and lesbian community & were only grudgingly accepted in the last decades. Lesbians excluded them from their activities because they didn't regard transsexuals as women any more than you do. Gay men dislike male-to-female transsexuals, because they value male genitalia, and the sexual reassignment surgery involves the removal of the testicles & the surgical inversion of the penile tissue in creating an artificial vaginal cavity. When homosexual men hear that, they are as aghast as heterosexual men.

Quote:

Who does a "gay" man who thinks he can change into a woman hope to attract? Another "gay" man?
They don't. Gay men want erotic relations with men as men. They are completely turned off by the very idea of heterosexual relations.

Quote:

But how can someone be happy when they are living a lie? And what if the man who got fooled wants kids with the one who masquerades as a woman?
. The whole point for transsexuals is to live as someone who had a physical defect removed. For them, it's not fundamentally different from any other cosmetic surgery. The fashion model doesn't admit to her dates how much cosmetic surgery she may have had.

Nonethless, when to "tell" is the question. Telling at the start invites immediate rejection; telling later invites violent retaliation in addition.


Quote:

How would the deceiver fake a pregnancy? The saying applies that goes "oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive". But as Jesus said, "the truth will make you free."
If you're really interested in how people live with the condition, Jennifer Finney Boylan's "She's Not There" is the best current memoir. For the transsexual, either male-to-female or female-to-male, it's the genitalia and the persona they construct artificially to live with the mistaken genitalia which is the lie. The lie is to assert that they are really gay men who, bizarrely, are trying to attract gay men by living as women -- they don't do anything of the sort.

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 11:54 am

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
...

PatrickSebast Mar 28, '13 12:31 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549141)
A so-called "sex change" operation is a misnomer because it's not possible to change one's DNA. XY will always be XY, and XX will always be XX.

I suggest you look into this a little more an realize that reality isn't as black and white as you hoped.

For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androge...ivity_syndrome

It is completely possible for someone with an XY gene to have the full appearance of female and be unaware of their condition. There are multiple conditions that can blur the lines of gender for a person and while there are certainly concerns and moral issues worth raising over the transgender community speaking out of ignorance will only cause harm to your goals.

VeritasLuxMea Mar 28, '13 1:13 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
You didn't discuss any scientific studies or offer a fleshed-out argument. I don't know how successful you're going to be at convincing anyone who disagrees with you, especially when there is established science on this matter. You might, however, get a round of applause from those who already agree with you. So if that's what you were looking for then you might get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549243)
The argument for doing a so-called "sex change" operation to people is purely emotional with no logic whatsoever.

You sound angry about this. Am I wrong?

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 9:22 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickSebast (Post 10549467)
I suggest you look into this a little more an realize that reality isn't as black and white as you hoped.

For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androge...ivity_syndrome

It is completely possible for someone with an XY gene to have the full appearance of female and be unaware of their condition. There are multiple conditions that can blur the lines of gender for a person and while there are certainly concerns and moral issues worth raising over the transgender community speaking out of ignorance will only cause harm to your goals.

Wikipedia? :hmmm:

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 9:26 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea (Post 10549656)
You didn't discuss any scientific studies or offer a fleshed-out argument.

I think you mean that I didn't agree with you. What part of what I said is not the truth?

Dakota Roberts Mar 28, '13 10:19 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549141)
A so-called "sex change" operation is a misnomer because it's not possible to change one's DNA. XY will always be XY, and XX will always be XX. Even if surgery can make a man look like a woman or a woman look like a man it's still only an appearance, a costume, a lie. The fact that "transgender" is included in the "gay" category of "LGBT" shows that they don't even believe their own lie. For if a man really could change into a woman they would be going from "gay" to straight and would not be able to be counted among the "gays" anymore. Who does a "gay" man who thinks he can change into a woman hope to attract? Another "gay" man? If the surgery is convincing wouldn't the "gay" partner be turned off by it? A straight man wouldn't want them because he knows they aren't a real woman unless they can be fooled. But how can someone be happy when they are living a lie? And what if the man who got fooled wants kids with the one who masquerades as a woman? How would the deceiver fake a pregnancy? The saying applies that goes "oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive". But as Jesus said, "the truth will make you free."

What about CAIS people

Funny thing is that while basically all gay advocacy groups have a transgendered wing that wing is always the ugly stepsister who most people don't acknowledge the existence of.
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549243)
The argument for doing a so-called "sex change" operation to people is purely emotional with no logic whatsoever. If I strongly believe that I'm an elephant would that make me one? How about if I had a surgery to make myself appear as an elephant, would that make me one? Of course not. I would be delusional. And the worst thing anyone could do is to play along with my delusion especially by means of a permanent surgery.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/...ge/Cat_man.jpg

haters gonna hate

Stephanie Pauls Mar 28, '13 10:27 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10549141)
But how can someone be happy when they are living a lie?

I was living a lie when I was living as a male. I tryed hard to pretend to be a man, but it killed me inside, i wished I was dead. When I started being Stephanie full time the real me came out . I felt liberated. No more having to pretend!

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 10:44 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Roberts (Post 10551418)
What about CAIS people

If someone is born with a vagina they are a female. If they are born with a penis they are a male. Simple. If they are born "intersex" I've never personally known of any baby that has been born that way. If it does happen it's extremely rare and would not make up the majority of the cases of people seeking a "sex change" operation.

livingwordunity Mar 28, '13 10:52 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Pauls (Post 10551433)
I was living a lie when I was living as a male. I tryed hard to pretend to be a man, but it killed me inside, i wished I was dead. When I started being Stephanie full time the real me came out . I felt liberated. No more having to pretend!

Comparative data of childhood and adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons

A systematic review of mental disorder, suicide, and deliberate self harm in lesbian, gay and bisexual people

What is the farthest back you can remember?

Stephanie Pauls Mar 28, '13 10:58 pm

Re: Why "transgender" is a lie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by livingwordunity (Post 10551464)
If someone is born with a vagina they are a female. If they are born with a penis they are a male. Simple. If they are born "intersex" I've never personally known of any baby that has been born that way. If it does happen it's extremely rare and would not make up the majority of the cases of people seeking a "sex change" operation.

CAIS is XY females. So they would born female, but have what you call male DNA. I really question your knowledge of biology. That was a legitimate question.
Why does it matter to you about the whole transgender thing? They just want to live with brain matching body is all. We trtansgenders dont wish out problem on anyone.


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