Should I go to Matins before Liturgy?

**lak611** · #1 Feb 25, '08, 11:59 pm

I am a Latin Catholic who is interested in going to Byzantine Divine Liturgy. I called the local Byzantine Catholic Cathedral (St. John the Baptist in Parma, Ohio) to find out the schedule. The recording said that Matins are at 9:30 am, and Liturgy is around 10 am. I got the impression that most people go to the Matins first, since there was no exact time given for when the Liturgy starts. Should I go to the Matins to make sure I am on time for the Liturgy? Is it considered proper etiquette to be at the church for the Matins and not just the Liturgy?

If I do go to the Matins, will there be a book in the pew that I can use to follow along? Is there anything on-line that would help me to understand what is going on during the Matins?

ASimpleSinner · #2 Feb 26, '08, 12:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lak611

I am a Latin Catholic who is interested in going to Byzantine Divine Liturgy. I called the local Byzantine Catholic Cathedral (St. John the Baptist in Parma, Ohio) to find out the schedule. The recording said that Matins are at 9:30 am, and Liturgy is around 10 am. I got the impression that most people go to the Matins first, since there was no exact time given for when the Liturgy starts. Should I go to the Matins to make sure I am on time for the Liturgy? Is it considered proper etiquette to be at the church for the Matins and not just the Liturgy?

If I do go to the Matins, will there be a book in the pew that I can use to follow along? Is there anything on-line that would help me to understand what is going on during the Matins?

If you want to be truly authentic and lead the life of a venerable Ruthenian, you get there when you get there.

Such concerns over punctuality are very western of you!

It would be a good thing to get there for Matins... but you will find people trickle in at different times... some (and I have been guilty of this) several minutes after the start of the DL.

Aramis · #3 Feb 26, '08, 1:00 am

If you want to be sure you don't miss the start of the Divine Liturgy, yes, go for matins.

If you want to get the full teachings of the day (and the matins are of the full, priest-or-deacon-led variety, rather than Reader's Matins), again, go.

Since they are not listing a specific time for DL, I suspect the standard to be Priest-led matins, with DL following directly on; they may be a break or not. If anything, be EARLY for matins (by 5-10 minutes), to have some time to simply drink in the environment.

Woodstock · #4 Feb 26, '08, 6:42 am

And if you are early for matins, don't be surprised if you are one of the very few there.

I also recommend you go. Here's some information on it.

bpbasilphx · #5 Feb 26, '08, 7:22 am

By all means, go to Matins!

**lak611** · #6 Feb 26, '08, 10:27 pm

Thank you, all.

I will go to Matins before Liturgy. Will there be anything in the pew to guide me through the Matins?

bpbasilphx · #7 Feb 26, '08, 10:52 pm

**Thank you, all. I will go to Matins before Liturgy. Will there be anything in the pew to guide me through the Matins?**

Frankly, I don't know. Matins can get rather complex--more than the average person in the pew can be expected to keep up with. And every parish has its own customary abbreviations.

But I'm sure if you go to

http://www.metropolitancantorinstitute.org/

or similar site you can find it. This Sunday will be Tone 7, btw.

mgy100 · #8 Feb 27, '08, 2:32 pm

30 minute long matins? I can't spell it, but the Rusyn designation of matins is (pardon the spelling) utreniya. This is more likely what it will be. From what I gather it is a shortened matins service, nothing wrong with that, just the tradition in that parish.

Aramis · #9 Feb 27, '08, 10:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgy100

30 minute long matins? I can't spell it, but the Rusyn designation of matins is (pardon the spelling) utreniya. This is more likely what it will be. From what I gather it is a shortened matins service, nothing wrong with that, just the tradition in that parish.

There are several matins options in the Ruthenian church...

One is full matins, lead by the celebrant for the DL, which can be blended, or can be separated from, the DL. It includes additional readings, with troparia, kontakia, and (if appropriate) magnification and irmos.

Another is the use of the third hour, lead by a priest, deacon, reader or cantor, with troparia, kontakia, and (if appropriate) magnification and irmos.

Yet another is the reduced form Divine Praises, which are an abbreviated form of matins (about 15-20min) which lacks even the kontak and tropar. It can be lead by cantor or reader as well.

Discouraged, but allowed, is no divine praises at all.

**lak611** · #10 Feb 27, '08, 10:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramis

There are several matins options in the Ruthenian church...

One is full matins, lead by the celebrant for the DL, which can be blended, or can be separated from, the DL. It includes additional readings, with troparia, kontakia, and (if appropriate) magnification and irmos.

Another is the use of the third hour, lead by a priest, deacon, reader or cantor, with troparia, kontakia, and (if appropriate) magnification and irmos.

Yet another is the reduced form Divine Praises, which are an abbreviated form of matins (about 15-20min) which lacks even the kontak and tropar. It can be lead by cantor or reader as well.

Discouraged, but allowed, is no divine praises at all.

Does the pew book that you have a link for in your signature have the Matins in it?

Aramis · #11 Feb 27, '08, 10:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lak611

Does the pew book that you have a link for in your signature have the Matins in it?

Only the divine praises ultra-short form.

Metropolitan Cantor Institute has several other forms.

mgy100 · #12 Feb 28, '08, 3:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramis

There are several matins options in the Ruthenian church...

One is full matins, lead by the celebrant for the DL, which can be blended, or can be separated from, the DL. It includes additional readings, with troparia, kontakia, and (if appropriate) magnification and irmos.

Another is the use of the third hour, lead by a priest, deacon, reader or cantor, with troparia, kontakia, and (if appropriate) magnification and irmos.

Yet another is the reduced form Divine Praises, which are an abbreviated form of matins (about 15-20min) which lacks even the kontak and tropar. It can be lead by cantor or reader as well.

Discouraged, but allowed, is no divine praises at all.

I am quite familiar with the various forms of Matins. I was merely stating that if it is 30 minutes it may be the Utrenja (once again spelling). I don't know about Alaska, but in Rusyn Central many Churches across the board on both sides of the fence do not have Matins. Utrenja (spelling) is a fair option as it doesn't require a high number of people to pray this service and it is 30 minutes long-ish.

**lak611** · #13 Feb 28, '08, 9:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgy100

I am quite familiar with the various forms of Matins. I was merely stating that if it is 30 minutes it may be the Utrenja (once again spelling). I don't know about Alaska, but in Rusyn Central many Churches across the board on both sides of the fence do not have Matins. Utrenja (spelling) is a fair option as it doesn't require a high number of people to pray this service and it is 30 minutes long-ish.

Will I be able to recognize the type of Matins when I do go?

**lak611** · #14 Feb 27, '08, 5:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpbasilphx

**Thank you, all. I will go to Matins before Liturgy. Will there be anything in the pew to guide me through the Matins?**

Frankly, I don't know. Matins can get rather complex--more than the average person in the pew can be expected to keep up with. And every parish has its own customary abbreviations.

But I'm sure if you go to

http://www.metropolitancantorinstitute.org/

or similar site you can find it. This Sunday will be Tone 7, btw.

Thank you for the link.