Does the Catholic Church recognize the story of Noah and the flood as being literally true?

[rwillenborg]

If so, how could that be? And please, not the 'All things are possible through God'. If I'm to explain catholic theology to non-catholics, I'd better come better equipped than that.
And if not, on what basis is it considered allegorical and not true? Why would Noah's story be false, and our original parents Adam and Eve be true?
How do you reconcile the similarities between the story of Noah and other ancient flood stories?
Any insight would be most helpful. Thanks!

[Peter Dawson]

Originally Posted by rwillenborg

If so, how could that be? And please, not the 'All things are possible through God'. If I'm to explain catholic theology to non-catholics, I'd better come better equipped than that.
And if not, on what basis is it considered allegorical and not true? Why would Noah's story be false, and our original parents Adam and Eve be true?
How do you reconcile the similarities between the story of Noah and other ancient flood stories?
Any insight would be most helpful. Thanks!

Ironically, as unbelievable as it may seem, there may in fact have been a "world-drowning" flood. There may have even been an ark.

But the story isn't intent on teaching history.

Its intent is to typologically teach theology. For example, the dove "carrying" Noah's hand into the ark is a picture of the Holy Spirit delivering Christ to the Church at the time of the Incarnation. The crow which flies up and doesn't fly down until after the flood is Christ ascending to Heaven and not returning until the Second Coming at the end of time. The dove bearing the olive twig to the ark is the Paraclete deliuvering the grace of the cross to the Church, in the interim.

Don't worry about whether the flood is fictional. You are reading it for the wrong reason.

[NepheshChayah]

Don't worry about whether the flood is fictional. You are reading it for the wrong reason.[/quote]

Wrong person? what kind of attitude is that uggghhh

[juliamajor]

Originally Posted by NepheshChayah;6028512[COLOR="Red"

]Don't worry about whether the flood is fictional. You are reading it for the wrong reason.

[/color]Wrong person? what kind of attitude is that uggghhh[/quote]

Yup.It isn't a history,or science .It's about God's Love of humankind in Creation.His Justice and correction in the flood.His Forgiveness and redemption after the flood.This is what truly is important.All else is superfluous.

[buffalo]

Originally Posted by juliamajor

[/color]Wrong person? what kind of attitude is that uggghhh

Yup.It isn't a history,or science .It's about God's Love of humankind in Creation.His Justice and correction in the flood.His Forgiveness and redemption after the flood.This is what truly is important.All else is superfluous.[/quote]

Truth is never superfluous.

[juliamajor]

Originally Posted by buffalo

Yup.It isn't a history,or science .It's about God's Love of humankind in Creation.His Justice and correction in the flood.His Forgiveness and redemption after the flood.This is what truly is important.All else is superfluous.

Truth is never superfluous.[/quote]
IThe uggh quote isn't mine.
Truth ? Which truth?The one that God loves us?
It is superfluous if it is misdirected.That the earth is is 45 billion years old or 6000 is not truth but an opinion- having really nothing to do with the Spiritual and theological truths contained therein.I keep asking what is Genesis really concerned with-what does it teach us,why is it important.I have yet to get a response on any of the threads.What is the purpose of the book.To teach you geology?is geology important to salvation? I don't think so.

[buffalo]

Originally Posted by juliamajor

Truth is never superfluous.

IThe uggh quote isn't mine.
Truth ? Which truth?The one that God loves us?
It is superfluous if it is misdirected.That the earth is is 45 billion years old or 6000 is not truth but an opinion- having really nothing to do with the Spiritual and theological truths contained therein.I keep asking what is Genesis really concerned with-what does it teach us,why is it important.I have yet to get a response on any of the threads.What is the purpose of the book.To teach you geology?is geology important to salvation? I don't think so.[/quote]

God is truth. Everything He pronounces is truth and is important. Otherwise one has to take a position that only some of God is important.

[donsnow]

Originally Posted by juliamajor

Truth is never superfluous.

IThe uggh quote isn't mine.
Truth ? Which truth?The one that God loves us?
It is superfluous if it is misdirected.That the earth is is 45 billion years old or 6000 is not truth but an opinion- having really nothing to do with the Spiritual and theological truths contained therein.I keep asking what is Genesis really concerned with-what does it teach us,why is it important.I have yet to get a response on any of the threads.What is the purpose of the book.To teach you geology?is geology important to salvation? I don't think so.[/quote]

Hi, juliamajor -

Here's my response to your asking what is Genesis really concerned with. I agree that Genesis shows God's love for His creation and all the creatures in it. That's the main purpose. It's secondary purpose is to show how He created it, to glorify His majesty, power, wisdom as well as declare His love. Personally, I think the flood happened.

I would like to say, to both views, in closing, the same theological and spiritual truths abide and are available, whether or not there was a flood.

[juliamajor]

Originally Posted by donsnow

IThe uggh quote isn't mine.
Truth ? Which truth?The one that God loves us?
It is superfluous if it is misdirected.That the earth is is 45 billion years old or 6000 is not truth but an opinion- having really nothing to do with the Spiritual and theological truths contained therein.I keep asking what is Genesis really concerned with-what does it teach us,why is it important.I have yet to get a response on any of the threads.What is the purpose of the book.To teach you geology?is geology important to salvation? I don't think so.

Hi, juliamajor -

Here's my response to your asking what is Genesis really concerned with. I agree that Genesis shows God's love for His creation and all the creatures in it. That's the main purpose. It's secondary purpose is to show how He created it, to glorify His majesty, power, wisdom as well as declare His love. Personally, I think the flood happened.

I would like to say, to both views, in closing, the same theological and spiritual truths abide and are available, whether or not there was a flood.[/quote]

Agreed!

[twinc]

Originally Posted by Peter Dawson

Ironically, as unbelievable as it may seem, there may in fact have been a "world-drowning" flood. There may have even been an ark.

But the story isn't intent on teaching history.

Its intent is to typologically teach theology. For example, the dove "carrying" Noah's hand into the ark is a picture of the Holy Spirit delivering Christ to the Church at the time of the Incarnation. The crow which flies up and doesn't fly down until after the flood is Christ ascending to Heaven and not returning until the Second Coming at the end of time. The dove bearing the olive twig to the ark is the Paraclete deliuvering the grace of the cross to the Church, in the interim.

Don't worry about whether the flood is fictional. You are reading it for the wrong reason.

great or tremendous as this may be for some with fantastic imaginations and phantasies it is in total disregard of that the literal and obvious must always and everywhere be accepted first - twinc

[James S Saint]

Please take care to not confuse allegory with metaphor.

Metaphor is a true event with the nouns (not verbs) changed. An allegory is a fictional story that typifies real events.

The Noah story was metaphor, not allegory.

But do note that I am not Catholic (yet).

[diggerdomer]

Originally Posted by James S Saint

Please take care to not confuse allegory with metaphor.

Metaphor is a true event with the nouns (not verbs) changed. An allegory is a fictional story that typifies real events.

The Noah story was metaphor, not allegory.

But do note that I am not Catholic (yet).

Not necessarily, in Scripture studies.

In Genesis 2-3, just one example, God is portrayed, metaphorically, as "planting" and "moving about" (among other verbs).

Allegorical interpretations can be faithful and true understanding of Scripture passages that are in and of themselves not (or not only) allegorical. Literal (factual) passages may be interpreted allegorically.

See the Catechism para 115-119.

[SHW]

Noah's ark was real. The rainbow which we still see today is the sign of God's covenant with Noah. Genesis 9:13-17

Some of the people, who were drowning, repented before they died and Jesus then preached to them in prison (purgatory) during the time period between His own death and His own resurrection.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

God saved the lives of the eight persons and their animals who were in the ark. Some of the evil persons, who were left on earth to drown, repented while they were drowning and after they died they went to purgatory (prison) and remained there. Jesus then preached to them during the three days before He rose again from the dead. They were in purgatory over 2000 years before Jesus went there and preached to them!!!

The righteous persons, who were not in purgatory at the time of Jesus' death, were waiting in Abraham's bosom for Jesus to open the gates of heaven for them in order for them to enter into heaven. Adam's sin closed the gates of heaven; Jesus' sacrifice re-opened them.

Luke 16:22-23
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried;
23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom.

[diggerdomer]

Originally Posted by SHW

Noah's ark was real. The rainbow which we still see today is the sign of God's covenant with Noah. Genesis 9:13-17

Some of the people, who were drowning, repented before they died and Jesus then preached to them in prison (purgatory) during the time period between His own death and His own resurrection.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

God saved the lives of the eight persons and their animals who were in the ark. Some of the evil persons, who were left on earth to drown, repented while they were drowning and after they died they went to purgatory (prison) and remained there. Jesus then preached to them during the three days before He rose again from the dead. They were in purgatory over 2000 years before Jesus went there and preached to them!!!

The righteous persons, who were not in purgatory at the time of Jesus' death, were waiting in Abraham's bosom for Jesus to open the gates of heaven for them in order for them to enter into heaven. Adam's sin closed the gates of heaven; Jesus' sacrifice re-opened them.

Luke 16:22-23
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried;
23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom.

Interesting theory. Still, in answer to the question, the Catholic Church does not require Catholics to hold that the story of Noah and the ark is literally true.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by diggerdomer

Interesting theory. Still, in answer to the question, the Catholic Church does not require Catholics to hold that the story of Noah and the ark is literally true.

But you probably should consider the literal truth of it, rather than trying to rationalize your faith for a number of reasons. For starters, the flood is a pre-figuration of baptism, if the flood is nothing but a alagory or "bed time story", then what does that mean for baptism? This is similar to the Israelites passing through the red sea in exodus.

More over, if you start by rationalizing your faith here, where does it stop? Do you start rejecting the miricles of Christ? Because you figure no one can clean an leper, so why should God be able to? Very quickly you start rationalizing your faith to the point of being aboslutly irrational.

Don't let modernism and materialism dictate what you should believe. These concepts reject God funamentally, why would you let philophies which reject God dictate what you believe about God? This is a slippery slope.