Terri Schiavo and the soul of America

[Brad]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42991

It is often said by abortion supporters that a fetus is not a baby until it can survive independently outside the mother's womb. This is, of course, a specious argument since this "survival" is not possible without the care and nourishment of others, either pre or post birth.

This is true not only of infants and children, but of the sick, disabled and elderly as well. But if certain right-to-death groups get their way this week, you can add Terri Schiavo's name to the growing list of disposables for whom the simple act of feeding would make her life otherwise viable.


We live in a society where multibillion-dollar projects are cancelled or altered in order to protect certain animal habitats, and one that engages in Herculean labors to spare the lives of confessed serial rapists and killers like Michael Ross. Yet a family who wishes nothing more than to take home and care for their daughter – a woman guilty of nothing except maybe her fatal choice of a husband – may yet lose their battle for her life.

For those not familiar with Terri's case, in 1990 Terri Schindler-Schiavo collapsed in her home and suffered a 10-minute loss of oxygen due to causes unknown. Her husband of six years, Michael Schiavo, although he reportedly knew CPR did not perform it and his wife suffered severe brain damage which left her badly handicapped.

Two years later, when Michael won a malpractice suit against Terri's doctors, he claimed he needed the million dollar-plus settlement to care for her for the rest of her life. This caring ended less than five years later when, in 1998, Michael suddenly remembered that Terri had indicated to him shortly after their marriage that she would reject any life support should it someday become necessary.

Even though Terri never signed any living will-type document, the Florida courts believed Michael's story and granted him guardianship of Terri even though he'd been living for three years with a woman with whom he was to have two children.

In 2001, Judge George Greer, a man who has reported conflicts of interest in this case, ordered Terri's feeding tube disconnected. This action prompted the Schindler family to begin their own round of legal proceedings and, in the course of one, they discovered new evidence. A report of a medical exam done shortly after Terri's collapse seemed to suggest she might have been the victim of violence.

No matter what evidence the Schindler family has presented, Michael Schiavo, Judge Greer and noted euthanasia lawyer George Felos are determined that Terri must die for her own good. This despite numerous reports by nurses and others that she is a vital and responsive young woman of 41 who smiles at and recognizes her family; regardless of the fact that her feeding tube is only inserted at mealtimes and she needs no other life support; even though she is a Catholic whose religion forbids euthanasia.

The lengths to which those who wish her slow death by starvation have gone are truly appalling. They have, at various times refused medication for routine infections which could prove fatal if untreated; withheld dental and gynecological tests and treatments for periods of up to seven years; restricted visits from her family and worse, visits by her parish priest, even refusing to allow him to administer the Host during the Last Rites the last time her tube was removed, claiming it would constitute "sustenance."

That this case, if carried to its most ghastly conclusion, will become a legal precedent is as disturbing a tragedy as the execution of Terri herself. Worse than merely representing a culture of death begun by the abortionists, euthanasia, along with cloning and embryonic research, represents a belief that certain humans should control the making and taking of innocent life. This thinking is precisely that of Hitler's Third Reich, an idea that millions paid the ultimate price to eradicate.

There are thousands of people with brain-impairments of varying degrees alive today around the world and I'm willing to bet that the great majority of their loved ones cherish every day they've been allowed to care for them. Some people cannot understand that what would be an unbearable burden to them is a blessing to others.

One wonderful woman who recently passed away devoted most of her life to the home care of her severely impaired 54-year-old son rather than leave him in an institution. Another family lovingly rotated monthly care of their brother until his death at the age of 81.

continued...

[Brad]

Such devotion to and belief in the sanctity of all innocent life is at the core of the Terri Schindler-Schiavo case and those who wish her death this week know it. This is a fight that has been coming for some time that will shape the future of our country in as profound a way as we have ever known and one that should be fought as fiercely as was Hitler.

Those who think that man should be an architect of life and an arbiter of death are using a disabled woman's plight to foist their notion of 21st-century morality on the rest of us. The fate of Terri Schiavo will be a measure of their success or failure. It is tragic that freedom is now on the march all over the world, yet here at home the most basic of all human rights may be lost.

[TheGrowingGrape]

You can sign a petition to save Terri here:

http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?RID=5750873

[TheGrowingGrape]

OTHER NUMBERS TO CALL TO PETITION FOR HER LIFE:

Governor Jeb Bush 850-488-4441

President Bush 202-456-4441

Florida Speaker of the House Allan G. Bense 850-488-1450; District Office 850-941-6300

Florida Senate President Tom Lee 850-487-5072; District office 813-744-8683.

[Tlaloc]

Originally Posted by Brad

It is often said by abortion supporters that a fetus is not a baby until it can survive independently outside the mother's womb. This is, of course, a specious argument since this "survival" is not possible without the care and nourishment of others, either pre or post birth.

It's not specious at all if you consider the difference between an organism and a tissue. But lets concentrate on the subject at hand.

Yet a family who wishes nothing more than to take home and care for their daughter – a woman guilty of nothing except maybe her fatal choice of a husband – may yet lose their battle for her life.

Nice but inaccurate. The family's wish is irrelevent. The issue is what Terry wanted before she became a vegetable.

For those not familiar with Terri's case...

Other sources paint a very different picture than you do. Are you sure you aren't getting your news from biased sources, say those wanting to portray her husband as a monster in order to bolster their position?

In 2001, Judge George Greer, a man who has reported conflicts of interest in this case, ordered Terri's feeding tube disconnected. This action prompted the Schindler family to begin their own round of legal proceedings and, in the course of one, they discovered new evidence. A report of a medical exam done shortly after Terri's collapse seemed to suggest she might have been the victim of violence.

Again this seems awfully suspicious. They just happen to uncover evidence of violence 11 years after the "crime" took place? And the judge of course is on the take and that's why he won't look at it? Sounds just a bit matlock-esque.

No matter what evidence the Schindler family has presented, Michael Schiavo, Judge Greer and noted euthanasia lawyer George Felos are determined that Terri must die for her own good. This despite numerous reports by nurses and others that she is a vital and responsive young woman of 41 who smiles at and recognizes her family;

She has random motor activity which her family interprets as responses to their presence. There's also testimony that she does the same things when her family isn't around. And of course the majority of doctors on the case have concluded she's a vegetable.

The lengths to which those who wish her slow death by starvation have gone are truly appalling. They have, at various times refused medication for routine infections which could prove fatal if untreated; withheld dental and gynecological tests and treatments for periods of up to seven years; restricted visits from her family and worse, visits by her parish priest, even refusing to allow him to administer the Host during the Last Rites the last time her tube was removed, claiming it would constitute "sustenance."

Frankly if the husband is right and she wanted to die rather than stay on life support I'd be so infuriated at her family for dragging out her state for over a decade that'd I'd probably forbid them seeing her too. After showing such enormously vile disrespect for their daughter's wishes what right do they have to pretend to care for her?

That this case, if carried to its most ghastly conclusion, will become a legal precedent is as disturbing a tragedy as the execution of Terri herself.

It's only precident if the family wins because the law was already on the husband's side.

Worse than merely representing a culture of death begun by the abortionists, euthanasia, along with cloning and embryonic research, represents a belief that certain humans should control the making and taking of innocent life.

Again you misrepresent the facts. The issue is whether terry wanted to die, not whether anyone else wants her to. In other words you are arguing for the state to own our very lives while I'm arguing for personal ownership of our lives up to and including termination if we choose it.

There are thousands of people with brain-impairments of varying degrees alive today around the world and I'm willing to bet that the great majority of their loved ones cherish every day they've been allowed to care for them. Some people cannot understand that what would be an unbearable burden to them is a blessing to others.

Irrelevent. Do the brain damaged people wish to go on living? That's the question at hand. If yes then fine, but if no then it is supreme selfishness for their families to keep them alive in order that the family members can take comfort and stave off the grieving process at the expense of their "loved" one's misery.

[Genesis315]

Originally Posted by Tlaloc

It's not specious at all if you consider the difference between an organism and a tissue. But lets concentrate on the subject at hand.



Nice but inaccurate. The family's wish is irrelevent. The issue is what Terry wanted before she became a vegetable.



Other sources paint a very different picture than you do. Are you sure you aren't getting your news from biased sources, say those wanting to portray her husband as a monster in order to bolster their position?



Again this seems awfully suspicious. They just happen to uncover evidence of violence 11 years after the "crime" took place? And the judge of course is on the take and that's why he won't look at it? Sounds just a bit matlock-esque.



She has random motor activity which her family interprets as responses to their presence. There's also testimony that she does the same things when her family isn't around. And of course the majority of doctors on the case have concluded she's a vegetable.



Frankly if the husband is right and she wanted to die rather than stay on life support I'd be so infuriated at her family for dragging out her state for over a decade that'd I'd probably forbid them seeing her too. After showing such enormously vile disrespect for their daughter's wishes what right do they have to pretend to care for her?



It's only precident if the family wins because the law was already on the husband's side.



Again you misrepresent the facts. The issue is whether terry wanted to die, not whether anyone else wants her to. In other words you are arguing for the state to own our very lives while I'm arguing for personal ownership of our lives up to and including termination if we choose it.



Irrelevent. Do the brain damaged people wish to go on living? That's the question at hand. If yes then fine, but if no then it is supreme selfishness for their families to keep them alive in order that the family members can take comfort and stave off the grieving process at the expense of their "loved" one's misery.

I just have a quick question: can a "vegetable" have "misery"?

[Tlaloc]

Originally Posted by Genesis315

I just have a quick question: can a "vegetable" have "misery"?

Well "misery" was in response to the generic "brain damaged" comment not specifically Terry Schiavo. No I don't think a real vegetable can be miserable but there are other forms of brain damage which may be quite terrible to endure.

[cove]

"Nice but inaccurate. The family's wish is irrelevent. The issue is what Terry wanted before she became a vegetable."


And you know what Terri wanted? There is no signed document by Terri stating she wanted to be starved to death that I know of.

BTW--Terrie is not a vegetable. But just like your abortion stance you use terms to dehumanize other humans for the convenience of killing them. This is the position that pro-death people take. Why it is essential that we have laws that protect others right to life.

I have seen Terrie and she does not look like a carrot.

[UKcatholicGuy]

I agree with Cove. Tlalc, I hope the Lord has mercy on your soul. You sound like a cold-hearted person. Just try and have sympathy for the Schiavo family. Pray to the Lord for a changed heart. This woman is INNOCENT and her husband wants to kill her by refusing to feed her. You know who else can't feed themselves? infants! we have to give them bottles, they would die if we did not PUMP LIQUID FOOD into their bodies! should we let them die too? are they too much of a burden on society?

you know Tlalc, your ideology has already been tried . . . his name was Hitler.

[Tlaloc]

Originally Posted by UKcatholicGuy

Tlalc, I hope the Lord has mercy on your soul.

Well that's sweet of you but since I don't believe in god the way you do really not needed.

You sound like a cold-hearted person.

Such topics easily give themselves to emotional approaches but if we can resist such folly we can appraise them logically and coolly. This is what doctors have to do as well. It works.

Just try and have sympathy for the Schiavo family.

Will you have sympathy for her husband?

Pray to the Lord for a changed heart.

I sincerely hope any change of heart comes about through reason and not some supernatural entity controlling me, thank you.

This woman is INNOCENT and her husband wants to kill her by refusing to feed her.

The innocent woman is long gone. Over a decade gone. All that's left is a human shaped husk.

You know who else can't feed themselves? infants! we have to give them bottles, they would die if we did not PUMP LIQUID FOOD into their bodies! should we let them die too? are they too much of a burden on society?

An infant is not a vegetable. An infant has not expressed a desire to die if it becomes an infant. Your comparison is without merit.

you know Tlalc, your ideology has already been tried . . . his name was Hitler.

Hitler wanted to kill other people. Terry wanted to end her own life if reduced to such a state (according to her husband). Just a slight difference, even if you can't see it.

The problem is you automatically assume this is against her wishes because you've listened to press from people who are heavily invested in demonizing her husband. Is he a bad person? I don't know, and neither do you, but you assume he is. And so you assume this is something done to her against her wishes without any actual proof toward that end.

Seen from the other angle (assuming this was her wish) her family becomes the bad guy and her husband the noble who fought for what she wanted. Since we have no way of knowing for sure why don't we stop the recriminations and slander and simply leave it to the courts to decide?

[Michael C]

Originally Posted by Tlaloc

Well that's sweet of you but since I don't believe in god the way you do really not needed.



Such topics easily give themselves to emotional approaches but if we can resist such folly we can appraise them logically and coolly. This is what doctors have to do as well. It works.


Will you have sympathy for her husband?



I sincerely hope any change of heart comes about through reason and not some supernatural entity controlling me, thank you.


The innocent woman is long gone. Over a decade gone. All that's left is a human shaped husk.



An infant is not a vegetable. An infant has not expressed a desire to die if it becomes an infant. Your comparison is without merit.


Hitler wanted to kill other people. Terry wanted to end her own life if reduced to such a state (according to her husband). Just a slight difference, even if you can't see it.

The problem is you automatically assume this is against her wishes because you've listened to press from people who are heavily invested in demonizing her husband. Is he a bad person? I don't know, and neither do you, but you assume he is. And so you assume this is something done to her against her wishes without any actual proof toward that end.

Seen from the other angle (assuming this was her wish) her family becomes the bad guy and her husband the noble who fought for what she wanted. Since we have no way of knowing for sure why don't we stop the recriminations and slander and simply leave it to the courts to decide?

Explain exactly how you believe in God? What you call a husk I call a soul. Sadly, you're numbness will eventually take it's toll on your soul. Her husband can not be trusted to be looking out for her best wishes, His actions testify to that.

[Servant1]

Originally Posted by Michael C

Explain exactly how you believe in God? What you call a husk I call a soul. Sadly, you're numbness will eventually take it's toll on your soul. Her husband can not be trusted to be looking out for her best wishes, His actions testify to that.

In the sense that the original writer used it, a worn out body is certainly NOT a soul. NOTHING that you see lying on the bed before you, however lucid or non-lucid, is a soul, and that's what the writer was referring to.

[Lilyofthevalley]

The Growing Grape, thank-you, for providing those numbers and that link.
It really would be a shame if The United States ended up like Holland, euthanizing newborn, babys who are very sick. Of course the rationalization for this sick behavior is it's "for their own good".

[MonicaC]

Tlaloc, Have you bothered to research this any futher? I have seen video of Terri and she looks almost perfect aside from her inability to move like you and I. Her husband hasmoved on with his life he now has a common law wife and children I don't see how he can honestly say that Terri's wellfare is all he cares about. Terri death would make animal activiest angry if she was a dog who was being sentenced to be starved to death. I pray that the Lord will soften your heart to see this, and I hope that you never find yourself in this situation, or any one that you love. This is plan and simple murder, I don't see how anyone can see it any other way. First it was our babies and now it is our disabled where is it going go next, I fear that no one is safe.

[Tlaloc]

Originally Posted by MonicaC

Tlaloc, Have you bothered to research this any futher? I have seen video of Terri and she looks almost perfect aside from her inability to move like you and I.

Are you a neurologist? Assuming not I'll tend to trust the neurologists (plural) who disagree with your diagnosis.

Her husband hasmoved on with his life he now has a common law wife and children I don't see how he can honestly say that Terri's wellfare is all he cares about.

He may not. He may be a lying scumbag. But on the other hand her family hasn't moved on at all, how can they honestly say they have Terry's best interests at heart either? They may be doing all this just so as not to deal with the fact their daughter is gone in any meaningful sense.

Terri death would make animal activiest angry if she was a dog who was being sentenced to be starved to death.

The wierd thing is that you can give a dog a lethal injection in such a case but we have no such compassion for people. Except in Oregon.

I pray that the Lord will soften your heart to see this, and I hope that you never find yourself in this situation, or any one that you love.

The heart doesn't matter here. It's thinking with your heart that gets you into trouble by clouding reason with sentiment. I also hope I'm never in such a position but if I am I hope my family lets me die quickly, not after 14 years of hospitialization. I really do need to make a living will.

This is plan and simple murder, I don't see how anyone can see it any other way.

Well I'll try to explain my perspective then:
It's not murder to help someone who wants to die
Terry by the best available source wanted to die if rendered a vegetable.
Terry is a vegetable according to expert medical opinion
Thus it's not murder to help her die.