Could the Papacy switch rites?

Pope Noah I · #1 Jul 6, '10, 9:46 pm

Suppose an Eastern Catholic prelate, such as the Major-Archbishop of the UGCC or Catholicos of the Syro-Malankara Church, was elected Bishop of Rome, Could they decree that all papal liturgies during their reign would follow the Syriac or Slavic-Byzantine uses, or are they obligated to practice to Roman Rite?

Vico · #2 Jul 6, '10, 10:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pope Noah I

Suppose an Eastern Catholic prelate, such as the Major-Archbishop of the UGCC or Catholicos of the Syro-Malankara Church, was elected Bishop of Rome, Could they decree that all papal liturgies during their reign would follow the Syriac or Slavic-Byzantine uses, or are they obligated to practice to Roman Rite?

He would have to become the head of the Latin Church because of the multiple roles that the Pope has:

Pope, Primacy over the Catholic Church (Latin papa), the See of Peter
Authority over the Latin Church and Latin Patriarchs
Primate of Italy
Metropolitan Archbishop of the Province of Rome

The pope has the power to do such a thing, like an indult of adaptation.

WetCatechumen · #3 Jul 6, '10, 10:33 pm

It's happened before.

I don't know that they stopped using the Roman Rite, though.

Vico · #4 Jul 7, '10, 11:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetCatechumen

It's happened before.

I don't know that they stopped using the Roman Rite, though.

The Roman rite appears to have come from Antioch (Liturgy of Saint James) and the Byzantine form developed from the fourth century, also from Antioch (Liturgy of Saint James).

Those Eastern Popes were before a standard Roman sacramentary was established. Charlemagne requested of Pope Hadrian I, in 783 A.D., that a Roman Sacramentary be established to replace the various Gallacian (Franco-Germanic) versions, and later it was supplemented by Benedict of Aniane (d. 821 A.D.), with (suprise!) Gelasian rites.

LoyalViews · #5 Jul 7, '10, 1:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vico

He would have to become the head of the Latin Church because of the multiple roles that the Pope has:

Pope, Primacy over the Catholic Church (Latin papa), the See of Peter
Authority over the Latin Church and Latin Patriarchs
Primate of Italy
Metropolitan Archbishop of the Province of Rome

The pope has the power to do such a thing, like an indult of adaptation.

The Pope does have the power, but not only does the pope has primacy of the Latin Church, but also over the Eastern Church, for they are both sui iuris churches of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. He also has authority of the Eastern Patriarchs, just as equally as he does over the Latin Patriarches. The Pope has UNIVERSAL authority over the Church.

Or by Eastern Church do your mean the Orthodox church?

Vico · #6 Jul 7, '10, 2:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalViews

The Pope does have the power, but not only does the pope has primacy of the Latin Church, but also over the Eastern Church, for they are both sui iuris churches of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. He also has authority of the Eastern Patriarchs, just as equally as he does over the Latin Patriarches. The Pope has UNIVERSAL authority over the Church.

Or by Eastern Church do your mean the Orthodox church?

Universal authority is covered in the first item listed:

Pope, Primacy over the Catholic Church (Latin papa), the See of Peter

Pope Noah I · #7 Jul 7, '10, 2:51 pm

Well, its not really a question of jurisdiction, just liturgical praxis. The Pope could, theoretically, function as the head of the Latin Church while practicing the Syriac rite. The papacy isn't bound to any single liturgical use, I guess.

LoyalViews · #8 Jul 7, '10, 3:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pope Noah I

Well, its not really a question of jurisdiction, just liturgical praxis. The Pope could, theoretically, function as the head of the Latin Church while practicing the Syriac rite. The papacy isn't bound to any single liturgical use, I guess.

Sorry, but that was a TOTAL misunderstanding on my part

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vico

Universal authority is covered in the first item listed:

Pope, Primacy over the Catholic Church (Latin papa), the See of Peter

100% correct.

Vico · #9 Jul 7, '10, 8:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalViews

...

Just two offices exist with preminent ordinary, proper power of governance:

1 Bishop of Rome *
2 Diocesan/Eparchial Bishop (and equivalents)

* The Bishop of Rome is the ordinary of the Universal Church (executive, legislative, and judicial)

Wesley7 · #10 Jul 7, '10, 10:28 pm

I do know that the Bishop of Rome is in conciliar authority. The other stuff is a bit complicated ~

. .

Vico · #11 Jul 7, '10, 11:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley7

I do know that the Bishop of Rome is in conciliar authority. The other stuff is a bit complicated ~

. .

It is.

Ordinary power, which is not delegated, but exists by divine ordinance, is the moral right of the Pope or bishops to teach and govern because of their office.

In ordinary jurisdiction (the right to exercise official and public authority in some capacity) the bishop has the right to exercise authority over a territory, because of his office, the Pope over the entire Church, because of his office, and in the internal forum by the pastor over the members of his parish, because of his office. And this may be delegated.

Wesley7 · #12 Jul 7, '10, 11:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vico

It is.

Ordinary power, which is not delegated, but exists by divine ordinance, is the moral right of the Pope or bishops to teach and govern because of their office.

In ordinary jurisdiction (the right to exercise official and public authority in some capacity) the bishop has the right to exercise authority over a territory, because of his office, the Pope over the entire Church, because of his office, and in the internal forum by the pastor over the members of his parish, because of his office. And this may be delegated.

Hey, your signature is pretty cool.

TP2 · #13 Jul 15, '10, 11:12 pm

Actually there have been recent Popes who did belong to different "Rites" other than Latin. For example, Paul VI belonged to the Ambrosian Rite.

POPE_PETER · #14 Aug 21, '10, 11:57 pm

The Pope is The Supreme Pontiff. Of course he can. But it's like asking an Eastern Rite Church if they will change to "A" Latin Rite... The purpose of a "Rite" is it's Worship style and discipline and it's Respective Tradition. Rome is of The Latin Rite and while The Pope can change it, he won't. It's a silly question.