The Truth About Justice

[MariaTS]

There will be Justice in this country, the United States of America, when no citizen is discriminated against when it comes to housing, education, employment, healthcare, marriage, or law enforcement. I can legally be kicked out of my apartment/house irregardless of whether I can afford the rent/mortgage or not just because of someones religious convictions. A person can refuse to hire me or even interview me simply because of my transgendered, disabled, or bisexual status. I can be kicked out of school irregardless of whether I break any rules or not or whether I can afford the tuition or not. A doctor can refuse to help me, prescribe medicine that I desperately need, or even treat me for a life threatening condition because of their religious convictions. I am not, legally, allowed to marry a male or a female in this country. And when anything bad happens to me, most law officers refuse to do anything about it and say its my fault it happened and when I report it to the higher-ups in law enforcement and nothing is done. I have no justice or equal rights in this country, I am treated like trash in this country.

[Apollos]

Originally Posted by MariaTS

There will be Justice in this country, the United States of America, when no citizen is discriminated against when it comes to housing, education, employment, healthcare, marriage, or law enforcement. I can legally be kicked out of my apartment/house irregardless of whether I can afford the rent/mortgage or not just because of someones religious convictions. A person can refuse to hire me or even interview me simply because of my transgendered, disabled, or bisexual status. I can be kicked out of school irregardless of whether I break any rules or not or whether I can afford the tuition or not. A doctor can refuse to help me, prescribe medicine that I desperately need, or even treat me for a life threatening condition because of their religious convictions. I am not, legally, allowed to marry a male or a female in this country. And when anything bad happens to me, most law officers refuse to do anything about it and say its my fault it happened and when I report it to the higher-ups in law enforcement and nothing is done. I have no justice or equal rights in this country, I am treated like trash in this country.

Oh you poor thing. So after you're done bellyaching, what are you going to do about it?

[MariaTS]

Originally Posted by Apollos

Oh you poor thing. So after you're done bellyaching, what are you going to do about it?

I've done all that I can to fight for my rights, but the majority does not care for equality. They already have their rights that they take for granted.

[Apollos]

Originally Posted by MariaTS

I've done all that I can to fight for my rights, but the majority does not care for equality. They already have their rights that they take for granted.

If you are in the right about all these legal issues, and if you are smart, you will find a lawyer who will win these cases for you and make a lot of money for both of you. But here you are.

[MariaTS]

Originally Posted by Apollos

If you are in the right about all these legal issues, and if you are smart, you will find a lawyer who will win these cases for you and make a lot of money for both of you. But here you are.

A lawyer won't give me equal rights, for that I need the majority of US politicians. I cannot defend my rights on the basis of law because there are no laws that guarantee my rights.

[Apollos]

Originally Posted by MariaTS

A lawyer won't give me equal rights, for that I need the majority of US politicians. I cannot defend my rights on the basis of law because there are no laws that guarantee my rights.

So you don't blame the people that make up society, you blame the laws the people that make up society created and abide by.

So who are you to tell us to change our laws?

[MariaTS]

Originally Posted by Apollos

So you don't blame the people that make up society, you blame the laws the people that make up society created and abide by.

So who are you to tell us to change our laws?

I am not saying that any laws need to be changed, I am simply saying that the laws that guarantee me basic human rights do not exist. Also, the US constitution says that all men are created equal. Non-existant laws are the problem, not current laws. There are no laws that say someone can deny me healthcare because I am transsexual, but there are no laws that say someone cannot. People become Doctors to help people, they have no right to endanger my life by refusing necessary healthcare simply because of my transsexual status. I have insurance that will cover my healthcare, that's all that should matter.

[Apollos]

Originally Posted by MariaTS

I am not saying that any laws need to be changed, I am simply saying that the laws that guarantee me basic human rights do not exist. Also, the US constitution says that all men are created equal. Non-existant laws are the problem, not current laws. There are no laws that say someone can deny me healthcare because I am transsexual, but there are no laws that say someone cannot. People become Doctors to help people, they have no right to endanger my life by refusing necessary healthcare simply because of my transsexual status. I have insurance that will cover my healthcare, that's all that should matter.

You think that adding new laws does not constitute "change"? <sigh> Whatever, I'll just grant the distinction and move on even though it's merely academic.

So tell me why you think that violations of natural law, and in particular the sixth commandment, are human rights.

But I must add that you are suspiciously not telling the whole story about this alleged violation of your right to health care supposedly on the grounds of transsexuality. I'm on to you, Maria.

And by the way, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that anyone is created, let alone equal. That is a religious dogma, last time I checked.

[MariaTS]

Originally Posted by Apollos

You think that adding new laws does not constitute "change"? <sigh> Whatever, I'll just grant the distinction and move on even though it's merely academic.

So tell me why you think that violations of natural law, and in particular the sixth commandment, are human rights.

But I must add that you are suspiciously not telling the whole story about this alleged violation of your right to health care supposedly on the grounds of transsexuality. I'm on to you, Maria.

And by the way, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that anyone is created, let alone equal. That is a religious dogma, last time I checked.

Could you tell me how I am violating the sixth commandment? I am a virgin who believes in celibacy until marriage. I don't think committing adultery is a human right and I never said that anywhere.

I'll tell you the whole story about healthcare being denied on the basis of transsexuality, if you really want to hear it. Okay, first of all, I have Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, a muscle wasting disease. I need to go to the hospital every few months and get prescriptions for medications that I will die without. About a year ago, I found out that I would not be getting my heart medication because the heart doctor refused to treat a "goddamn, immoral whore". He still has a job, despite his use of vulgar language in the presence of children and his complete disregard for the health and safety of children. Luckily, for me that is, there was another doctor that realized that I would die without those medications.

Article IV, Section 2 of the constitution: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by MariaTS

Luckily, for me that is, there was another doctor that realized that I would die without those medications.

Article IV, Section 2 of the constitution: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

No, finding that second doctor was not luck, they did what a normal doctor does. You were extremely UNlucky in being treated so poorly by the first doctor. But that's a rare case.

I have a family full of doctors, and know very well their friends who are also doctors. A large proportion of these are devoutly religious. All of them, of course, treat drug addicts, cohabiting couples and all sorts of other patients who indulge in behaviour they would personally consider to be immoral. But none would dare treat or speak to any patient, no matter what the patient's circumstances, the way that first doctor treated you.

[Apollos]

Could you tell me how I am violating the sixth commandment? I am a virgin who believes in celibacy until marriage. I don't think committing adultery is a human right and I never said that anywhere.

If you are a virgin, then your doctor would have known that, and would not have called you a whore.

The sixth commandment implicitly covers more than just adultery, and I'll get to that in a moment. But in the mean time I noticed that you avoided asking about natural law, probably because you know you have already violated it by having surgery that removed your perfectly good male parts and improvised something superficially resembling female parts in their place. No medical necessity beyond your cri de coeur that you were born in the wrong body.

I'll tell you the whole story about healthcare being denied on the basis of transsexuality, if you really want to hear it. Okay, first of all, I have Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, a muscle wasting disease. I need to go to the hospital every few months and get prescriptions for medications that I will die without. About a year ago, I found out that I would not be getting my heart medication because the heart doctor refused to treat a "goddamn, immoral whore". He still has a job, despite his use of vulgar language in the presence of children and his complete disregard for the health and safety of children. Luckily, for me that is, there was another doctor that realized that I would die without those medications.

Wonderful. I could have sabotaged my own medical care in exactly the same way, had I an agenda of self-victimization. In case you can't read between these lines: I don't believe you.

Article IV, Section 2 of the constitution: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

LOL

[Dale_M]

Originally Posted by Apollos

LOL

Huh?

Could you explain how that quote relates to our discussion?

[fkjuliano]

Some guy decides to dress in women's clothes and (presumably) to have his genitals amputated. Of course, in America, he is allowed to do it, and, absurd as that may be since genetically he is still a man, he is legally considered a woman. But he's not satisfied with that. He actually thinks the rest of us don't have the right to be appalled by his choices and that we should be compelled to associate with him by hiring him or renting to him. He wants to force us to pretend he actually changed gender, and if we can't or won't, then we are the bad people causing his unhappiness.

The reality is, though, that he is unhappy because he is insane. He should pray to God to cure him of his insanity.

By the way, is New Zealand now a haven for transvestite activists?

[Dale_M]

This should be a lively discussion.

Originally Posted by MariaTS

I can legally be kicked out of my apartment/house irregardless of whether I can afford the rent/mortgage or not just because of someones religious convictions.

Hi Maria, I am not sure where you live, and what you say is true in much of the United States. However, 13 states and 109 cites or counties have protections for persons on the basis of gender identity or expression. Some of these laws go back more than 20 years, providing ample experience with the effects of such laws. Their precedence, and success, is important for smoothing the ways for additional such laws in other states and localities.

I would note, however, that in the parts of the US which do not have such laws, discriminatory actions don't require religious beliefs. A transsexual can be denied a job or medical care simply because the employer or doctor doesn't like transsexuals.

Originally Posted by MariaTS

A person can refuse to hire me or even interview me simply because of my transgendered, disabled, or bisexual status. I can be kicked out of school irregardless of whether I break any rules or not or whether I can afford the tuition or not.

Yep.

Originally Posted by MariaTS

And when anything bad happens to me, most law officers refuse to do anything about it and say its my fault it happened and when I report it to the higher-ups in law enforcement and nothing is done.

Hmm... that might be an overstatement.

I think in large part it depends on where someone lives - some communities are more enlightened and some more benighted. However, I hasten to add that I am not familiar with what you have experienced, and from your post, I think you've encountered unjust treatment at the hands of authorities. And for that I am very sorry, and understand your frustration, and perhaps anger.

Originally Posted by Apollos

Oh you poor thing. So after you're done bellyaching, what are you going to do about it?

This discussion will be more informative, and useful, if we remember to be charitable to those we disagree with.

[GratefulFred]

Originally Posted by MariaTS

There will be Justice in this country, the United States of America, when no citizen is discriminated against when it comes to housing, education, employment, healthcare, marriage, or law enforcement. I can legally be kicked out of my apartment/house irregardless of whether I can afford the rent/mortgage or not just because of someones religious convictions. A person can refuse to hire me or even interview me simply because of my transgendered, disabled, or bisexual status. I can be kicked out of school irregardless of whether I break any rules or not or whether I can afford the tuition or not. A doctor can refuse to help me, prescribe medicine that I desperately need, or even treat me for a life threatening condition because of their religious convictions. I am not, legally, allowed to marry a male or a female in this country. And when anything bad happens to me, most law officers refuse to do anything about it and say its my fault it happened and when I report it to the higher-ups in law enforcement and nothing is done. I have no justice or equal rights in this country, I am treated like trash in this country.

Maria, your concerns and many and serious. I, and I am sure many others who read here, will keep you in our prayers.

Regardless of how individuals relate to you, there is ONE PERSON who never stops loving you UNCONDITIONALLY, and that is God. We know that that Jesus Christ is the Living Son of God, perfect in every way. Although He suffered terribily at the hands of the unjust, He continued to do His Father's Will and reaped the greatest reward for us. As Catholics we are to be Christ like as best we can even knowing that we are imperfect, even as others cause us to suffer. That can be very hard, but with Christ on our side, we will reap the great reward.

It may be very hard to pray when we are in pain from others' reaction to us. The shortest, most powerful prayer I know is

JESUS, I TRUST IN YOU.

Say this prayer as often as you can.
In due time, Jesus will give you more strength to deal with your fears and difficulties.

On a practical level, one of life's great lessons is learning that I cannot change others or the world. I can only change how I deal with it all. I can chose to fight them on every issue every time or I can pick and chose my fights. Some transgressions I can ignore. Although some, perhaps more than a few, are against me, I know that the whole world is not against me. I can find those who will relate to me on a more positive level.

I know that how individuals treat me can cause me to react in certain ways. It is also true that how I treat others can cause them to react in certain ways.

When I was a teen, I caddied at the country club. One member was thought to be mean to caddies. I was assigned. He started yelling at me before I picked up his bag and continued to yell at me for the18 holes. I kept cool and did my best. Next time he started yelling at me after his second shot and continued. I kept cool and did my best. The third time we came down the 18th hole and he was talking nicely with me as if I was his best friend. A couple of weeks later, as our friendship increased I asked why he was mean to the other caddies but not me. He said he eventually he realized I was not being mean to him so he realized he should not be mean to me.

I was the poor kid who hitched hiked to the country club. He was the rich business man with the Lincoln. I won his respect and friendship because I tolerated his boorish behavior and acted with dignity long enough for him to realize I was worthy of respect. I eventually reaped what I sowed with him.

It does take time. We build mutual respect one person at a time.

JESUS, I TRUST IN YOU.