The Invisible Church

Rebekah 34 · #1 May 26, '11, 7:40 pm

So I heard about the "Invisible Church" which Pope Pius the IX declared. From what I understand, anyone who leads a moral and fitting lifestyle, yet is not part of the Declared Church will still be saved. Does this constitute those who have heard of Jesus and God but just don't fit in at any Church? Or is it just the people who are so isolated and never heard of Christ?

fermat · #2 May 26, '11, 9:13 pm

The general idea is that no one is saved except through Jesus and the Church is the Body of Christ, ergo no one is saved except through the Church.

The idea of invisible ignorance applies when some has not rejected the Church while knowing what it really is. You can say that you reject Catholicism for x, y and z reasons. If you really believe that, and you feel you have listened to the spirit and you are really trying hard to live a Christ like life, then you can have hope of being saved.

This applies to those who already know Jesus and those who have never heard of Him. Only the God knows for sure what the true state of a persons heart is, so all we can do it to be the best light possible.

GeorgeTheWild · #3 May 26, '11, 9:15 pm

The Catechism of the Catholic Church holds your answer: (If you don't want to read the whole section, I'd suggest starting at 832)

PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO I. THE CREEDS

CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

Article 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

Paragraph 3. THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC

Namwalker · #4 May 26, '11, 10:06 pm

It has been so long since I have discussed this subject, that I hope that I am not stepping wholly out of bounds.

The question always comes up about a person who leads an exemplary life but doesn't believe in God. When he dies is he doomed to hell even though he led his life in what we would call Christian or Catholic virtue?

What is the answer to this question? Is he a saint or a sinner? Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell?

I never could get a satisfactory answer to that question and I always was wondering. In this case is a life of virtue to be condemned? If he is condemned are good works, charity, and virtue for naught?

I really need some guidance on this thought. I am truly not an catholic ethicist. Remember, the only dumb question is one that is unasked. Please help me.

Robertanthony · #5 May 26, '11, 10:19 pm

Our goal as human is to become like Christ, perfecting our virtues, love, charity, forgiveness, meekness and trying to eradicate stuff that make us unlike Christ. Church is not an end in itself, it's a means to an end.(Church was created for man not the opposite) It's where you'll find Sacraments by which grace is ordinarily given, and that'll help you in your growing to be like Jesus. If someone outside the Church strives to be virtuous, responding to inner promptings and end up doing God's will unknowingly, I think hope of salvation is totally warranted. On the other hand, a member of the Catholic Church who resists God's grace and makes no effort to amend/correct himself is in grave danger of perdition.

ESMDHokie77 · #6 May 27, '11, 6:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebekah 34

So I heard about the "Invisible Church" which Pope Pius the IX declared. From what I understand, anyone who leads a moral and fitting lifestyle, yet is not part of the Declared Church will still be saved. Does this constitute those who have heard of Jesus and God but just don't fit in at any Church? Or is it just the people who are so isolated and never heard of Christ?

It's easier for those who have never heard of Christ to be saved than those who heard his teachings but didn't follow Him.

Addai · #7 May 27, '11, 11:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebekah 34

So I heard about the "Invisible Church" which Pope Pius the IX declared. From what I understand, anyone who leads a moral and fitting lifestyle, yet is not part of the Declared Church will still be saved. Does this constitute those who have heard of Jesus and God but just don't fit in at any Church? Or is it just the people who are so isolated and never heard of Christ?

It's actually much more normative to describe the Church as visible rather than invisible Rebekah.

The invisible church became a popular term among Protestants because of the various Protestant denominations being Confessionally divided. But since ancient times Church Fathers usually have described the Church as an objective visible entity albeit one that is made up of sheep and goats, the saved and unsaved, wheat and tares etc.. The reason the Fathers have done this is due to the influence of groups like the Gnostics. Who claimed secret teachings of Jesus, but did not have verified lines of Apostolic Succession, Ecclesiastical oversight etc.

There are some potential exceptions to this (some St. Augustine quotes) but in general this has been the norm until the last few centuries where people have floated and tried to promote a new paradigm.

Possibly Catholics like your pope may have used it because it a term in current fashion and maybe he wanted to open a dialogue with Protestants. I will note that the Classical formulation does rub many people the wrong way.