Personal Relationship With Jesus Christ

stewstew03 · #1 Oct 31, '11, 7:07 pm

What is it? And what is the standard for determining whether one has it?

[Primarily a question for protestant evangelicals - I hear this term "personal relationship with JC" quite a bit, but looking for an operational definition.]

Waiting · #2 Oct 31, '11, 8:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewstew03

What is it? And what is the standard for determining whether one has it?

[Primarily a question for protestant evangelicals - I hear this term "personal relationship with JC" quite a bit, but looking for an operational definition.]

I know that I have a personal relationship with Jesus because I'm talking to Him all the time, as though He's my constant companion, which He is. Right now I'm sitting under a crucifix, and feel that He has input into everything I write. Can't get much more personal than that.

stewstew03 · #3 Oct 31, '11, 8:37 pm

So... are they (protestant evangelicals) simply referring to prayer?

I don't know - it seems much more exclusive than that. Surely they are aware that Catholics pray, and yet, they often criticize Catholics for not having that "personal relationship."

ltwin · #4 Nov 1, '11, 2:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewstew03

So... are they (protestant evangelicals) simply referring to prayer?

I don't know - it seems much more exclusive than that. Surely they are aware that Catholics pray, and yet, they often criticize Catholics for not having that "personal relationship."

"Personal relationship with Jesus" just means exactly that. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ, and it is personal, intimate. It is a relationship that is as real as any I have on earth. I have faith in him, I trust him, and I love him. I receive his love and his kindness and his goodness. Relationship means that I communicate with him.

What evangelical Protestants criticize is nominal Christianity (whether it be Catholic or Protestant). What we criticize are those Christians who do not have a relationship with Jesus, who do not know him, or ever really think about him or allow any room in their lives for him. These are those Christians who might be baptized or confirmed or on a church's official membership roll but in their hearts they do not know Jesus. They do not speak to him or listen to him. They do not cultivate any devotion to him.

Cat · #5 Nov 1, '11, 3:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltwin

"Personal relationship with Jesus" just means exactly that. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ, and it is personal, intimate. It is a relationship that is as real as any I have on earth. I have faith in him, I trust him, and I love him. I receive his love and his kindness and his goodness. Relationship means that I communicate with him.

What evangelical Protestants criticize is nominal Christianity (whether it be Catholic or Protestant). What we criticize are those Christians who do not have a relationship with Jesus, who do not know him, or ever really think about him or allow any room in their lives for him. These are those Christians who might be baptized or confirmed or on a church's official membership roll but in their hearts they do not know Jesus. They do not speak to him or listen to him. They do not cultivate any devotion to him.

I agree with this.

Itwin, I assume because you are a member of CAF that you realize that many Catholics do have a very deep and abiding personal relationship with Jesus and spend a great deal of time with Him.

I was evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life and I thought I had a deep personal relationship with Jesus. But since becoming Catholic, I have spent a lot more time with Jesus.

However, I spend LESS time in a church building as a Catholic. Catholics have the option to attend a daily Mass, but that's only about a half-hour. (I go when I am off work, but normally can't attend daily Mass.)

I do attend a weekly Catholic Bible study, but it only lasts for about 12 weeks out of the year---we don't meet during Advent, Lent, or the summer.

Perhaps that is why some Protestants assume that the Catholic doesn't have a personal relationsihp with Jesus--Catholics are not constantly doing something at church.

The other misconception that some Protestants have is that doing "good works" is not part of a "relationship with Jesus." The Calvinists would disagree with that; they teach that all of our life, including our work, is an act or worship to God. But many evangelical Christians have the idea that only when we are praying or worshipping God and shutting out the world entirely are we "in relationship."

Anyway, my point is that there are nominal Catholics, yes, who never internalize their relationship with Jesus, but only meet Him once a week in Holy Communion and then ignore Him for the rest of the week. But as you well know, there are plenty of nominal Protestants who do the same thing.

BrianGular · #6 Nov 1, '11, 4:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

I was evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life and I thought I had a deep personal relationship with Jesus. But since becoming Catholic, I have spent a lot more time with Jesus.

This explains why you are so understanding of "the other guys"!

I was Roman Catholic for the first 23 years of my life. But since becoming Protestant, I have spent a lot more time with Jesus.

I think there is a quality-control problem. Truth be told, there is a wide variation in the Roman Catholic experience for adherents--and a wider variation among Protestants. I have spoken to many on both sides, and the reports are frequently inconsistent.

The discussion of "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" is a prime example of poor Protestant quality control. In my opinion, it is borne out of a disturbing trend in Protestantism to "personalize" faith. Faith becomes all about me and my relationship with Jesus, an unbiblical position. Protestants frequently invite nonbeleivers to begin a "personal relationship" with Christ even though this invitation does not appear in the Bible. What does appear in the Bible? The commands to repent and believe. The direction to go and make disciples.

Technically, then, having a "personal relationship" corresponds to "repent and believe." (Although I'm sure many Protestants don't understand this when they say those words.)

FromTheAshes777 · #7 Nov 1, '11, 12:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

I agree with this.

Itwin, I assume because you are a member of CAF that you realize that many Catholics do have a very deep and abiding personal relationship with Jesus and spend a great deal of time with Him.

I was evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life and I thought I had a deep personal relationship with Jesus. But since becoming Catholic, I have spent a lot more time with Jesus.

However, I spend LESS time in a church building as a Catholic. Catholics have the option to attend a daily Mass, but that's only about a half-hour. (I go when I am off work, but normally can't attend daily Mass.)

I do attend a weekly Catholic Bible study, but it only lasts for about 12 weeks out of the year---we don't meet during Advent, Lent, or the summer.

Perhaps that is why some Protestants assume that the Catholic doesn't have a personal relationsihp with Jesus--Catholics are not constantly doing something at church.

The other misconception that some Protestants have is that doing "good works" is not part of a "relationship with Jesus." The Calvinists would disagree with that; they teach that all of our life, including our work, is an act or worship to God. But many evangelical Christians have the idea that only when we are praying or worshipping God and shutting out the world entirely are we "in relationship."

Anyway, my point is that there are nominal Catholics, yes, who never internalize their relationship with Jesus, but only meet Him once a week in Holy Communion and then ignore Him for the rest of the week. But as you well know, there are plenty of nominal Protestants who do the same thing.

great post! amen!

Eruvande · #8 Nov 1, '11, 12:41 pm

Time was, I'd be all about a 'personal relationship' but things change. I think I still have it, but it's been dampened by a lot of things. One thing I notice is that it's all cerebral - I'm so concerned to have all my ducks in a row theologically that it remains very much in the head rather than the heart.

One thing that appeals about catholicism is the tangible elements to the relationship - confession, eucharist and so forth. It takes it out of the head and into the heart. I envy that.

ReginaCoeli · #9 Nov 1, '11, 12:49 pm

Another way I know I have a personal relationship with Christ is that I try hard to show love to others like Christ did; of course, I'm always way off the mark, but i sincerely try. I also try to see Christ in those people I encounter and treat them accordingly. If I didn't have a relationship with Jesus, I wouldn't care about doing these things. It's because of my relationship with him that I try so hard to be Christ-like in all my endeavors. But again, I fall miserably short. Before I had a relationship with Christ, I didn't think this way. So that is evidence of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus working in my life. I'm so grateful for this gift. I pray everyday for an increase in the gift of faith.

JustaServant · #10 Nov 1, '11, 1:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eruvande

Time was, I'd be all about a 'personal relationship' but things change. I think I still have it, but it's been dampened by a lot of things. One thing I notice is that it's all cerebral - I'm so concerned to have all my ducks in a row theologically that it remains very much in the head rather than the heart.
One thing that appeals about catholicism is the tangible elements to the relationship - confession, eucharist and so forth. It takes it out of the head and into the heart. I envy that.

My friend you have hit the nail on the head.
Worship involves the WHOLE BODY, not just the brain or emotions.
When the Eucharist is removed from a Christian’s life, they are forever trying to find something to replace it with.

1voice · #11 Nov 16, '11, 10:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

Perhaps that is why some Protestants assume that the Catholic doesn't have a personal relationsihp with Jesus--Catholics are not constantly doing something at church.

That is a stereotype. Every Christian religion can be a vehicle for deep personal growth ... or just an internal treadmill that (from the outside) looks like a person is going somewhere.

"Religious" activity (for its own sake) doesnt necessarily have much to do with a personal/ intimate/ healthy relationship with Jesus. When I was a kid in Catholic school we went to Mass every morning. Daily Catechism class ... Stations in Lent ... Procession to Mary in May ... Daily religious activity ... all had no effect on many of the boys that I sat with in class every day. They cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads. They gossiped and showed little respect for the nuns ... or the Priests.

Intimacy with God... no matter what religion you choose ... requires study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (not religious activity) on a regular basis... out of that disciplined lifestyle flows the "good works" that are talked about in the Epistle.

JustaServant · #12 Nov 17, '11, 3:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1voice

That is a stereotype. Every Christian religion can be a vehicle for deep personal growth ... or just an internal treadmill that (from the outside) looks like a person is going somewhere.

"Religious" activity (for its own sake) doesnt necessarily have much to do with a personal/ intimate/ healthy relationship with Jesus. When I was a kid in Catholic school we went to Mass every morning. Daily Catechism class ... Stations in Lent ... Procession to Mary in May ... Daily religious activity ... all had no effect on many of the boys that I sat with in class every day. They cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads. They gossiped and showed little respect for the nuns ... or the Priests.

Intimacy with God... no matter what religion you choose ... requires study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (not religious activity) on a regular basis... out of that disciplined lifestyle flows the "good works" that are talked about in the Epistle.

What an insulting post.
How the heck do you know who is going on a "internal treadmill"?
I spent years on your side of the Tiber and I can tell you thier are just as many "born again" "personal relationship with Jesus" christians out there who "cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads and gossiped and showed little respect for thier pastors".
BTW, study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (which many Catholics do) IS religious activity whether you call it that or not.

ltwin · #13 Nov 18, '11, 2:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustaServant

What an insulting post.
How the heck do you know who is going on a "internal treadmill"?

No one is pointing out anyone who is going on an "internal treadmill." We're only saying that it is possible, but that is not the desired way to live.

Quote:

I spent years on your side of the Tiber and I can tell you thier are just as many "born again" "personal relationship with Jesus" christians out there who "cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads and gossiped and showed little respect for thier pastors".

Yes, the logical outcome of evangelical belief is the acknowledgement that not everyone who claims to know Jesus in fact knows him.

JustaServant · #14 Nov 19, '11, 1:23 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltwin

Yes, the logical outcome of evangelical belief is the acknowledgement that not everyone who claims to know Jesus in fact knows him.

And Catholic as well/
The difference is Catholics do no commit the sin of presumption in that we KNOW which ones KNOW HIM and which ones DO NOT KNOW HIM.
If you think they are such bad Christians than start focusing on yourself, because you dont know how you are coming off either to others.
I think its called humility.

ltwin · #15 Nov 19, '11, 7:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustaServant

And Catholic as well/
The difference is Catholics do no commit the sin of presumption in that we KNOW which ones KNOW HIM and which ones DO NOT KNOW HIM.
If you think they are such bad Christians than start focusing on yourself, because you dont know how you are coming off either to others.
I think its called humility.

Evangelicals don't or shouldn't presume to know what is in another man's heart. However, we will all be known by our fruits. If someone is not living a Christian life, yet claims to be a Christian, they should at the least be corrected, in Godly love, for their behavior. If they refuse Godly counsel and correction, that is a warning flag that something is wrong.