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  #1  
Old Dec 2, '11, 5:17 pm
LovePatience LovePatience is offline
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Default But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

In Mark 10:28-31, then Peter began to say to Him, "See, we have left all and followed You." So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

According to the Dialogues of St. Catherine of Siena who is a doctor of the church, God revealed to her that God does not give one hundredfold in this life for things which are given up.

So why is this verse even in the Bible if God does not plan to give one hundredfold? Isn't this false advertising? How do we know that anything else in the Bible is true?

Quote:
Reference from the Dialogues, Section: A Treatise on Obedience, #7: http://www.catholictreasury.info/boo...ogue/index.php
How the truly obedient receive a hundredfold for one, and also eternal lift; and what is meant by this one, and this hundredfold.

"In them is fulfilled the saying of the sweet and amorous Word, My only-begotten Son, in the gospel when He replied to Peter's demand, 'Master, we have left everything for your love's sake, and have followed You, what will you give us?' My Truth replied, 'I will give you a hundredfold for one, and you shall possess eternal life.' As if My Truth had wished to say, 'You have done well, Peter, for in no other way could you follow Me. And I, in this life, will give you a hundredfold for one.' And what is this hundredfold, beloved daughter, besides which the apostle obtained eternal life? To what did My Truth refer? To temporal substance?

"Properly speaking, no. Do I not, however, often cause one who gives alms to multiply in temporal goods? In return for what do I this? In return for the gift of his own will. This is the one for which I repay him a hundredfold. What is the meaning of the number a hundred? A hundred is a perfect number, and cannot be added to except by recommencing from the first. So charity is the most perfect of all the virtues, so perfect that no higher virtue can be attained except by recommencing at the beginning of self- knowledge, and thus increasing many hundredfold in merit; but you always necessarily arrive at the number one hundred. This is that hundredfold which is given to those who have given Me the unit of their own will, both in general obedience, and in the particular obedience of the religious life. And in addition to this hundred you also possess eternal life, for charity alone enters into eternal life, like a mistress bringing with her the fruit of all the other virtues, while they remain outside, bringing their fruit, I say, into Me, the eternal life, in whom the obedient taste eternal life. It is not by faith that they taste eternal life, for they experience in its essence that which they have believed through faith; nor by hope, for they possess that for which they had hoped, and so with all the other virtues, Queen Charity alone enters and possesses Me, her possessor. See, therefore, that these little ones receive a hundredfold for one, and also eternal life, for here they receive the fire of divine charity figured by the number of a hundred (as has been said). And because they have received this hundredfold from Me, they possess a wonderful and hearty joy, for there is no sadness in charity, but the joy of it makes the heart large and generous, not narrow or double. A soul wounded by this sweet arrow does not appear one thing in face and tongue while her heart is different. She does not serve, or act towards her neighbor with dissembling and ambition, because charity is an open book to be read by all. Wherefore the soul who possesses charity never falls into trouble, or the affliction of sadness, or jars with obedience, remains obedient until death."
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  #2  
Old Dec 2, '11, 5:31 pm
Jaypeeto4 Jaypeeto4 is offline
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Default Re: But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

"Properly speaking, no. Do I not, however, often cause one who gives alms to multiply in temporal goods?

It's not really false advertising at all. You didn't notice the second sentence above.
Jesus here acknowledges that he DOES frequently cause one who gives alms
to multiply in temporal goods, so the promise made in the gospels is NOT
false advertising.
The rest of the encounter with the Saint has Jesus detailing the virtue of Charity,
which is called the Queen of the Virtues. A hundredfold increase in Charity
IS more important for us, always, than a hundredfold increase in material goods!!
True, some Christians DO need an increase in material goods, as well as charity,
but many (especially in the West) do not. Many of us have enough.
Not all do, but many do. And sometimes we ask for increases in material goods,
and James tells us that the reason we don't get what we ask for, is that we ask for it out of wrong motives (consciously or not), so that we might spend what we would receive
on OUR OWN LUSTS. That is one instance in which Jesus would not grant our request for an increase, because if he granted it, we (like the Israelites did many times when THEY became prosperous) might turn away from Him and be lost. Sometimes we ask from wrong motives EVEN IF WE ALSO HAPPEN TO BE POVERTY STRICKEN and could really use the help. Jesus knows, in such cases, that if we get the help, we won't use it to get out of poverty so much as to start living it up, now that our worries were over, and again forget about him, neglect prayer and daily repentance, and end up lost. He knows us better than we know ourselves (even if we would disagree with that statement).
I am very poor and having financial problems since being laid off in 2009. I now have a rather low-paying job (for which I thank God), and found out I have more obligations than I ever knew I had, so I am BEGGING FOR and GENUINELY NEED a serious financial miracle. In fact, I cannot do what I need to do WITHOUT ONE. So I am begging and begging. And waiting and waiting. God will move, in His own due time.
And yes, it is frustrating, and downright terrifying at times.
And we tend to (understandably) complain when we don't get a material 100 fold increase.
After all, Christ did say we would get things like that.
But he also said we would get material things, but also WITH PERSECUTIONS.
And I ***DON'T*** hear many non-persecuted Chrstians complaining
about not receiving the promised persecutions!!!!

In fact, we pray daily that God
deliver us from all such misfortunes (and deliver us from evil).
If many Christians aren't persecuted, is THAT "false advertising"????
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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  #3  
Old Dec 2, '11, 7:03 pm
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JRKH JRKH is offline
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Default Re: But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

The Dialogues can be tricky reading - at least for me.... I've tried working my way through them but...

The first thing to remember is that things like the Dialogues (which are wonderful) are private revelation. As such they should be recognized as specific answers intended for the one receiving them, in this case Catherine.
This does not mean they are not useful, but it also means they should not be taken as "Gospel" but rather understood within the context of the Bible and Church teaching.

In the Scripture passage Jesus promises a return of a hundred fold...and is good to his word. One who "gives up" his narrow world of "possessions" gains a much wider world - hundreds of "houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands"
He does not "possess" them in the old way - yet they are his for their legitimate use.

This is what God is explaining to Catherine. The understanding of the "hundred-fold" is not in a "Properly speaking", that is "worldly" or "possessive" sense, nor is the "hundred fold" an exact figure in a temporal sense. Rather the blessing is in the freedoms, the lightness of not being ruled by worries, passions, possessions.

Hope this helps a bit.

Peace
James
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.... if I have all faith so as to move mountians but have not love, I am nothing. - (1Cor 13:2)


The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"

Oh my God , I will continue
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for the love of Thee
Amen.
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  #4  
Old Jan 11, '12, 6:42 pm
LovePatience LovePatience is offline
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Default Re: But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKH View Post
In the Scripture passage Jesus promises a return of a hundred fold...and is good to his word. One who "gives up" his narrow world of "possessions" gains a much wider world - hundreds of "houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands"
He does not "possess" them in the old way - yet they are his for their legitimate use.

This is what God is explaining to Catherine. The understanding of the "hundred-fold" is not in a "Properly speaking", that is "worldly" or "possessive" sense, nor is the "hundred fold" an exact figure in a temporal sense. Rather the blessing is in the freedoms, the lightness of not being ruled by worries, passions, possessions.

Hope this helps a bit.

Peace
James
Thank you very much for your reply. How does he gain the wider world of houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and lands? According to the Dialogues, it seems they are just symbols for charity.
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  #5  
Old Jan 11, '12, 9:53 pm
LovePatience LovePatience is offline
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Default Re: But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

I received the answer. How miraculous, this keeps happening to me, I ask a question and it is answered the same day! Praise be God!

Quote:
Book 4: Chapter 13 And why did he say some things but with other things in mind? I answer you: Israel was carnal and only desired carnal things and could only apprehend the invisible by way of the visible. Therefore, God designed to teach his people in many different ways, so that believers in God's promises would receive a loftier crown due to their faith, so that students of virtue would become more fervent, so that slackers would become more fervently enkindled toward God, so that wrongdoers would more freely cease their sinning, so that sufferers would bear their trials more patiently, so that those who toiled would persevere more cheerfully, so that the hopeful would receive a loftier crown due to the obscurity of the promise. If God had only promised spiritual goods to the carnal minded, they all would have grown lukewarm in their love for heaven. If he had only promised carnal goods, what difference would there then be between man and beast? Instead, in his kindness and wisdom, in order that they might govern their bodies with justice, with the moderation of those who are about to die, God gave humankind bodily goods. In order that they might desire the things of heaven, he displayed to them heavenly favors and wonders.
From St. Bridget's Revelations.
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  #6  
Old Jan 11, '12, 11:22 pm
TOME TOME is offline
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Default Re: But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

I am going to go to the scriptures themselves to provr my opinion. I think the answer to what Christ meant is found in the Beatitudes of Matthew and Luke's gospels. To get a real good insight into the Beatitudes I would suggest you read (reread?) Pope Benedict XVI's "Jesus of Nazareth" vol. 1.
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  #7  
Old Jan 12, '12, 3:03 am
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JRKH JRKH is offline
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Default Re: But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovePatience View Post
Thank you very much for your reply. How does he gain the wider world of houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and lands? According to the Dialogues, it seems they are just symbols for charity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovePatience View Post
I received the answer. How miraculous, this keeps happening to me, I ask a question and it is answered the same day! Praise be God!

From St. Bridget's Revelations.
Praise be to our Heavenly Father.

Peace
James
__________________
.... if I have all faith so as to move mountians but have not love, I am nothing. - (1Cor 13:2)


The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"

Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
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