Bizarre Occurrence at Mass

TheRealJuliane · #1 Mar 26, '12, 11:00 am

So at the Vigil Mass Saturday evening...During the homily my attention was drawn to a young early 20's man sitting directly in front of the baptismal font...Almost directly in front of the pulpit...He was alone in his row, although there were people in the pew behind him. I noticed the McDonald's drink cup on the seat next to him, and was somewhat concerned...He did not stand, kneel or do anything other than sit with his legs extended, and smile in a derisive way, and he had some folded papers that he would fiddle with.

The vibe I got while watching him was more hostile than confused, and I got a nervous feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I was afraid he would try to take communion. When I got back to my seat after receiving, I watched in horror as he took the top off his McDonald's drink cup, picked it up, picked his papers up, and got in line for Father's distribution of Jesus' body...

I prayed furiously for Father...

When the young man reached Father, there was obviously a problem, as Father refused him the Host...Father held firm for a few minutes and then, to my chagrin, gave the man a Host. The man then went over to the Cup Minister and tried that. That attempt did not work, so he had to walk away.

As he walked back to his seat, he threw the Host into one of the clay jars that are around the baptismal font.

Fortunately, one of the ushers saw him and she and one other usher managed to get it out of the jar and one of them consumed it. After they had done this, the man got his things together and walked out into the narthex, where 2 male ushers confronted him. Eventually I saw him ride away from the church on a bicycle.

After Mass, I talked to the Cup minister, since I know him. He said the man was obviously unbalanced in some way, as when he said "The Blood of Christ," the man said, "Thank you." Then the Minister knew he could not give this man the Blood.

This Mass is the smallest one at that church, we have trouble getting any ushers, or that sort of thing might be dealt with much more effectively. At the other parish I attend, there are signs on the door that say "No food or drink," as well as greeters at the doors, who would head off such a person before he ever got to the sanctuary. There is no security at this Mass. And the parish is located in an area that is filled with transient hotels, apartments, etc.

I was actually very frightened that this person was dangerous. His attitude was very negative and I was anticipating worse than just desecration of the Host. At least he didn't get violent. You never know.

Leon Bloy · #2 Mar 26, '12, 11:35 am

It is not the first time something like this has happened. Very sad and troubling, but remember the Lord loves him. Sounds like it was handled pretty well overall.

grasscutter · #3 Mar 26, '12, 11:42 am

Wow! I will pray for this young man. And I admire they way your church handled this distressing matter.

TheRealJuliane · #4 Mar 26, '12, 11:45 am

I need to pray for him too. You just never know how this kind of thing is going to play out. A priest would be totally vulnerable in that position, there is nothing Father could have done if this man had been out to attack him or hurt him and/or others.

If I see something else like this, I am going to leave the sanctuary immediately and get the attention of the ushers so they can keep a sharp eye out and nip whatever it is in the bud if they can.

CDB1718 · #5 Mar 26, '12, 12:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

I need to pray for him too. You just never know how this kind of thing is going to play out. A priest would be totally vulnerable in that position, there is nothing Father could have done if this man had been out to attack him or hurt him and/or others.

If I see something else like this, I am going to leave the sanctuary immediately and get the attention of the ushers so they can keep a sharp eye out and nip whatever it is in the bud if they can.

May I humbly suggest that if you ever fear for the safety of your priest or fellow parishioners that you bypass the ushers and go to the narthex to call the police? It might take them 10 minutes to arrive and that will be long after a fight, stabbing or shooting has occurred. It's better to have them on the way sooner than later.

The ushers are not security and shouldn't do anything more than you. Confronting a deranged man can be a deadly task. If your church employs security officers, contact them. Otherwise, if there is any doubt, call the police.

Now is a good time to ask your priest if the church has a policy on this and to communicate it to the ushers. Most will tell the ushers not to confront but to call the police. It's good to know what the plan is so everyone is on the same page.

Little Mary · #6 Mar 26, '12, 12:46 pm

If I missed this, please direct me to the post that discusses it...but....WHY did the priest give him a host?????

TheRealJuliane · #7 Mar 26, '12, 2:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Mary

If I missed this, please direct me to the post that discusses it...but....WHY did the priest give him a host?????

I didn't get a chance to ask Father about it and I'm sure he was shaken by it - the man, as far as I could tell, just kept asking and wouldn't accept no for an answer. Maybe he said he was Catholic, I don't know. Next time I see Father I will ask him if I get the opportunity. He is our Nigerian priest and maybe he didn't know what else to do. There needs to be some kind of way he can urge these people to go and talk to someone in the narthex or something.

newf · #8 Mar 26, '12, 12:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB1718

May I humbly suggest that if you ever fear for the safety of your priest or fellow parishioners that you bypass the ushers and go to the narthex to call the police? It might take them 10 minutes to arrive and that will be long after a fight, stabbing or shooting has occurred. It's better to have them on the way sooner than later.

The ushers are not security and shouldn't do anything more than you. Confronting a deranged man can be a deadly task. If your church employs security officers, contact them. Otherwise, if there is any doubt, call the police.

Now is a good time to ask your priest if the church has a policy on this and to communicate it to the ushers. Most will tell the ushers not to confront but to call the police. It's good to know what the plan is so everyone is on the same page.

Exactly.

We had an unstable young man in our church a few weeks ago. He came and sat right next to my husband. He was standing when the congregation sat. He waved his arms at the priest. He was belligerent when the ushers tried to calm him down. And he was frightening the older people behind us. We really didn't know what he was up to... and did he have a gun?

Thankfully, toward the end of mass, 3 police officers came in and took him out. I've never seen that before. And he went peacefully. I later found out that he has been in and out of mental hospitals and is otherwise harmless.

Elisabeth51 · #9 Mar 26, '12, 2:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB1718

The ushers are not security and shouldn't do anything more than you. .

Depends on who your ushers are--two of ours are policemen

Why did the priest give him the Host? Yesterday, our priest who is from Africa was telling of his first parish---one in an area very troubled with tribal war. During one Mass, during the Agnus Dei warriors came in and everyone fled....the warriors came up to Father and tried to get him to give them the Eucharist. He refused even when they held him at gun point. He held the Eucharist and continued to refuse, they left finally.

VeritasLuxMea · #10 Mar 26, '12, 2:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB1718

May I humbly suggest that if you ever fear for the safety of your priest or fellow parishioners that you bypass the ushers and go to the narthex to call the police? It might take them 10 minutes to arrive and that will be long after a fight, stabbing or shooting has occurred. It's better to have them on the way sooner than later.

The ushers are not security and shouldn't do anything more than you. Confronting a deranged man can be a deadly task. If your church employs security officers, contact them. Otherwise, if there is any doubt, call the police.

Now is a good time to ask your priest if the church has a policy on this and to communicate it to the ushers. Most will tell the ushers not to confront but to call the police. It's good to know what the plan is so everyone is on the same page.

I understand the intention of the advice, but what exactly is she going to say to the police responder?

"We need the police here. There's a man with a McDonald's cup and some papers in his hands." ??????

That alone doesn't sound like a police matter... being in public in the presence of someone who could, conceivably, theoretically be mentally ill...

**pnewton** · #11 Mar 26, '12, 2:44 pm

There is no crime in being mentally ill. It always bothers me when people call the police to handle a mentally ill person, equating them with dangerous. That is how our prisons and jails become warehousing for the socially undesirables that we do not want to spend taxes on to help.

VeritasLuxMea · #12 Mar 26, '12, 2:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnewton

There is no crime in being mentally ill. It always bothers me when people call the police to handle a mentally ill person, equating them with dangerous. That is how our prisons and jails become warehousing for the socially undesirables that we do not want to spend taxes on to help.

Leaving the taxes issue out of this.... <grin>

Agree, that was pretty much my take on it. You've really got to approach it in two ways, a balance of hospitality and caution. It's a difficult balance to strike but you have to try!

**pnewton** · #13 Mar 26, '12, 2:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea

Leaving the taxes issue out of this.... <grin>

Yeah, I knew that might catch an eyebrow. But that is the choice we face. If we are not going to fund places for the more severely mentally handicapped to live and get assistance, then we must learn to live with them, even at the cost of some dange. As we should all know you can't get something for nothing.

vsedriver · #14 Mar 26, '12, 8:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnewton

Yeah, I knew that might catch an eyebrow. But that is the choice we face. If we are not going to fund places for the more severely mentally handicapped to live and get assistance, then we must learn to live with them, even at the cost of some dange. As we should all know you can't get something for nothing.

you can't force someone to go into treatment or to take medication until they commit a crime. Getting someone involuntarily committed is very, very hard to do these days. That's why there are so many mentally ill on the streets. It is heartbreaking to hear families who want to care for mentally ill family members unable to do so because the ill person can simply walk away from a treatment center.

odile53 · #15 Mar 27, '12, 1:48 am

Last weekend at the evening vigil Mass one of the psychiatric patients I recognized from the hospital where I work walked in, drunk as a lord and manic to boot, just after Mass started, lurched down the center aisle, and repeatedly yelled, "Is the pope Catholic?"

The sacristan, one of the priests from this religious order, and a big male parishioner deftly caught up with him and escorted him out. He broke away for a moment, did a little tap-dance move, and said, "I'll be here all week, folks!" as they walked him out of the church.

This church is located downtown, two blocks away from a homeless shelter, with a few transient hotels, a freestanding alcoholism clinic, and a general hospital with a psychiatric department and a very active emergency room all within walking distance. There are several homeless people who do hang out at the church, especially on weekdays, and the priests from this order are aware of their presence. Most of them are harmless and very reverent, or at least quiet. They tend to be somewhat self-policing, in that if they see that one of their number is more disturbed than usual, one or two of them will get the more acute one to settle down or leave. A couple of them have appointed themselves as "official adorers," and are always there during Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament. Except that they look a little more disheveled than the average person who stops in for a few minutes with Jesus, and might have a big plastic bag full of cans that they're going to take to the recycling center, you'd never know that anything was amiss. They don't panhandle, and don't tolerate newcomers who do.