Youth Day Liturgy 2012 in Los Angeles

smndtupidisaftr · #1 Mar 26, '12, 7:51 pm

I hope we could all agree that what was happening in this liturgy was irreverent: the rapping as an entrance hymn, the dancers, the clapping during hymns, etc. And this is just what I've seen from the first 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpt9...f=plcp&index=3

My question is, what could people do about something like this. It's not really a parish where we could raise our concerns to a priest about what is going on, but the Mass is irreverent and we should demand better. The only problem is, how do we do it, and to whom?

SMHW · #2 Mar 26, '12, 10:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smndtupidisaftr

I hope we could all agree that what was happening in this liturgy was irreverent: the rapping as an entrance hymn, the dancers, the clapping during hymns, etc. And this is just what I've seen from the first 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpt9...f=plcp&index=3

My question is, what could people do about something like this. It's not really a parish where we could raise our concerns to a priest about what is going on, but the Mass is irreverent and we should demand better. The only problem is, how do we do it, and to whom?

Since it is over for a year there is nothing to be done unless you want to join whatever congress group is responsible for planning next year's liturgy. Remember that youth Day masses like this have been going on for at least 3 Archbishops/Cardinals and change comes slowly. You could direct your thoughts to the new Archbishop who I believe was the presider.

PA650 · #3 Mar 26, '12, 11:32 pm

The same liturgy that formed the great Saints of the Church again.

Let me know when this display of liberal Protestantism ceases being the face of Catholicism during the Religious Education Congress.

domandcarols · #4 Mar 27, '12, 8:37 am

It's LA, what do you expect?

Richard320 · #5 Mar 27, '12, 8:47 am

Yep. More embarrassment.

It seemed like the very worst speakers were disappearing, like the "married", lesbian, Episcopalian "priest". And then Abp Gomez moved in. I had high hopes he would clean up the dissentfest.

As an aside, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles organizes the REC, but it was actually in Orange County.

It really makes no sense at all. Both Cardinal Mahony and Archbishop Gomez put up with no nonsense at the Cathedral, why this still happens - and so publicly - at the REC is beyond me. I could see some youth Mass at some small nondescript suburban parish slipping under the radar, but not this.

smndtupidisaftr · #6 Mar 27, '12, 9:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard320

Yep. More embarrassment.

It seemed like the very worst speakers were disappearing, like the "married", lesbian, Episcopalian "priest". And then Abp Gomez moved in. I had high hopes he would clean up the dissentfest.

As an aside, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles organizes the REC, but it was actually in Orange County.

Yeah, but I thought it best not to confuse people. It's essentially a greater Los Angeles program.

Quote:

It really makes no sense at all. Both Cardinal Mahony and Archbishop Gomez put up with no nonsense at the Cathedral, why this still happens - and so publicly - at the REC is beyond me. I could see some youth Mass at some small nondescript suburban parish slipping under the radar, but not this.

I don't know how it is now with Archbishop Gomez at the cathedral, but I went to a Mass once that Cardinal Mahony celebrated. It had the same kind of choir, liturgical dancers, and little "testimonies" (this phrase seems so Protestant to me) given by teenagers. Maybe that was a one-time thing; you would know better than I do.

I just want to say that not all of LA is like this! It's just, unfortunately, far too many parishes around here that have so many innovations and illicit practices.

Anna Claire · #7 Mar 27, '12, 9:51 am

I think it's a wonderful thing when liturgy becomes exciting for young people. I don't know where you live but I'm not seeing many young adults on Sunday. This RE congress happens once a year and these practices are the exception,not the norm. A normal parish couldn't do this every week,nor should they. So why get so upset and critical? These young people are worshipping in a way that might not be pleasing to you but why shouldn't it be pleasing to God? And by the way...some of it is a cultural thing. The liturgical documents allow for inculturation at times. Have you ever watched papal masses when he travels?

smndtupidisaftr · #8 Mar 27, '12, 9:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Claire

I think it's a wonderful thing when liturgy becomes exciting for young people. I don't know where you live but I'm not seeing many young adults on Sunday. This RE congress happens once a year and these practices are the exception,not the norm. A normal parish couldn't do this every week,nor should they. So why get so upset and critical? These young people are worshipping in a way that might not be pleasing to you but why shouldn't it be pleasing to God? And by the way...some of it is a cultural thing. The liturgical documents allow for inculturation at times. Have you ever watched papal masses when he travels?

Why get upset and critical? Because a lot of what happened was irreverent. Did you see those altar cloths? Did you see people dressed in their Saturday afternoon best? Did you see the pop songs and rapping that were used as hymns? Did you see the dancers (Pope Benedict is vehemently against liturgical dancing)? Are you fine with clapping for people during the Mass?

There is a reason we get upset. If this all happened outside of the context of a Mass, then sure, it's fine. However, at Mass we are trying to recreate Calvary and recall and offer the sacrifice of Jesus. Do these things seem proper when we are so obviously in His presence and remembering His death?

Anna Claire · #9 Mar 27, '12, 12:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smndtupidisaftr

Why get upset and critical? Because a lot of what happened was irreverent. Did you see those altar cloths? Did you see people dressed in their Saturday afternoon best? Did you see the pop songs and rapping that were used as hymns? Did you see the dancers (Pope Benedict is vehemently against liturgical dancing)? Are you fine with clapping for people during the Mass?

There is a reason we get upset. If this all happened outside of the context of a Mass, then sure, it's fine. However, at Mass we are trying to recreate Calvary and recall and offer the sacrifice of Jesus. Do these things seem proper when we are so obviously in His presence and remembering His death?

First of all, it's not all to my liking nor is it my preference. I'm not a fan of mega masses. To me the huge papal mega masses are not at all conducive to a reverent atmosphere. There is just as much going on with people doing their own thing. It's allowed by local bishops and so are the mega papal masses. Again, it is not the norm but an exception. You are entitled to your opinion and so are others. Everyone doesn't have to agree on occasions such as this.
Also, (and this should be for another thread) we are not trying to "recreate Calvary" at mass. We are worshipping God the Father with the risen Chrst in our midst. We are celebrating, not only Christ's death but his Resurrection and that he will come again in glory.... The Paschal Mystery.

The Curt Jester · #10 Mar 27, '12, 12:54 pm

Ugh.

Those youth will probably one day grow up to be the "Catholics" who dissent from just about everything the Church teaches. Seems like a bunch of kids up there showboating, a bunch of goofy-looking adults dancing like they're playing the Wii (Ha! New game - liturgical dancing for the Wii!), and drums that make it sound like a pagan ritual... I was half expecting to see some Aztecs come out with their obsidian knives ready to cut out a few hearts.

Rainaldo · #11 Mar 27, '12, 1:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Curt Jester

I was half expecting to see some Aztecs come out with their obsidian knives ready to cut out a few hearts.

I think they do something like that in eastern rites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb_%2...of_Preparation).

Jegudiel · #12 Mar 27, '12, 12:55 pm

I have attended Mass several times at Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles when both Gomez and Mahony were the celebrants. All the Masses have been very reverent and by the book. Certainly far more orthodox than anything here locally. The setting is also very conducive to prayer and the celebration of the Mass.

I strongly suspect that those who bash the cathedral and Gomez are the very people that have experienced neither in real life.

smndtupidisaftr · #13 Mar 27, '12, 1:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jegudiel

I have attended Mass several times at Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles when both Gomez and Mahony were the celebrants. All the Masses have been very reverent and by the book. Certainly far more orthodox than anything here locally. The setting is also very conducive to prayer and the celebration of the Mass.

I strongly suspect that those who bash the cathedral and Gomez are the very people that have experienced neither in real life.

I've been to the cathedral and I'm not a fan. I still haven't attended a Mass celebrated by Archbishop Gomez, but I sure didn't like what I saw at this youth Mass.

The way the youth are treated in this archdiocese seems very condescending to me. I wasn't really attracted to it a few years ago when I still was a part of that "youth" group, and now it seems even worse. Why can't we treat the youth like adults? Why must they be babied? When I was a teenager I just wanted a Mass, I did not need all of this hoopla. It was never conducive to my prayer or the sacrament.

Rainaldo · #14 Mar 27, '12, 1:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smndtupidisaftr

The way the youth are treated in this archdiocese seems very condescending to me.

I agree. It's like talking like a black person to a black person because you want to "meet them where they're at" or be "relevant" ... when you both know you talk like a white person.

Jegudiel · #15 Mar 29, '12, 2:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by smndtupidisaftr

I've been to the cathedral and I'm not a fan. I still haven't attended a Mass celebrated by Archbishop Gomez, but I sure didn't like what I saw at this youth Mass.

The way the youth are treated in this archdiocese seems very condescending to me. I wasn't really attracted to it a few years ago when I still was a part of that "youth" group, and now it seems even worse. Why can't we treat the youth like adults? Why must they be babied? When I was a teenager I just wanted a Mass, I did not need all of this hoopla. It was never conducive to my prayer or the sacrament.

I spoke about Masses at the COLA. I suspect I have been to possibly a dozen. From daily Masses to the Easter Vigil. All were extremely reverent and by the book. People in the pews always seem to be on their best behavior too.