My atheist boyfriend and I

[flick26]

Hi all, I'm new to this board and I'm just looking for some objective views on my situation and I apologise in advance for the long post!

I'm 22 years old and I've been with my boyfriend for just over two years. He is an atheist, always has been but doesn't deny the possibility (even if it is very small in his opinion) of the existence of a God. But he believes that all religion is man-made, destructive and is the cause of all worldly problems and held (or continues to hold in some ways) scientific research back. As a Catholic who is very sure of her faith, I disagree with all of his aforementioned views.

Every now and again, the topic of religion or scientific topics like evolution come about and it always ends in quite a heated discussion. Sometimes, I really hate that he disagrees with me and I get angry with him. But he has yet to get angry with me. Although, he has never been disrespectful to my Catholic religion or my beliefs in God (he has actually only ever been curious despite the fact that he despises religion), he is very, very, very stubborn with his beliefs and some times twists my arguments and just won't accept my opinion.

When our relationship started getting serious at around 6 months in, we seriously discussed the future of our relationship in relation to religion and the upbringing of any children we might have. If we saw any problems, we would split up right there and then to avoid further hurt. He did not oppose to me bringing up our children in Catholicism (this included attending church, baptism, he was about dubious regarding their first holy communion) but stressed that they should be aware of other religions or the concept of no religion at all and they can make their choice when they reach that age (they could either be confirmed into the Catholic church or go down a different path). I agreed with this, as I want my children to be entirely sure of their faith and not feel like they are forced into my religion as many of my peers feel. (My parents taught me about Catholicism but never forced anything upon me and I feel that this ultimately made my faith stronger than it would have been if I felt like they wanted me to.)

Of course, it would be more ideal if I married a Catholic man but I have fallen in love with my boyfriend and there is no one else that I could ever imagine spending my life with. He treats me so well, he is loving and supportive and the most important thing is that he never patronises my beliefs or tries to convert me to atheism.
But here is the problem, our views on religion and science (e.g. the purpose of evolution) are so different and we always agree to disagree. But is this how I want my children to be raised? In a household where mom and dad can't even agree on this huge topic? Mom believes in God but dad doesn't really and doesn't like religion? I want my children to grow up in a solid household with firm beliefs. If we are married, who will I turn to for spiritual advice? If I lose God, who will help me find him? Apart from my father and my mother, no one it seems. This is causing me great conflict but is my worry worth me destroying my entire relationship? I have always guided myself with my faith, none of my friends were Catholic, in times of hardship with my faith I read books and the Bible and searched the internet. I have never relied on anyone.

So does this mean I should break up with my boyfriend of 2 years? I have invested my whole heart into this relationship and I have never met anyone who makes me feel happier. But I feel so conflicted and I wonder if we will run into trouble ten years down the line.

I wonder if anyone could offer me some advice or anecdotal stories or just anything really. Much appreciated, A

[1ke]

Originally Posted by flick26

When our relationship started getting serious at around 6 months in, we seriously discussed the future of our relationship in relation to religion and the upbringing of any children we might have. If we saw any problems, we would split up right there and then to avoid further hurt. He did not oppose to me bringing up our children in Catholicism (this included attending church, baptism, he was about dubious regarding their first holy communion) but stressed that they should be aware of other religions or the concept of no religion at all and they can make their choice when they reach that age (they could either be confirmed into the Catholic church or go down a different path). I agreed with this, as I want my children to be entirely sure of their faith and not feel like they are forced into my religion as many of my peers feel.

OK, stop right here.

If you baptize your children Catholic, they ARE Catholic. There is no "choosing" when they are older. There is no "choosing" to be confirmed or not. You misunderstand Confirmation if you believe it to be some sort of "choice" to be Catholic. The bishop does the confirming, and what he is confirming is the candidate's baptism. All Catholics are obligated to receive Confirmation upon the call of the bishop at the appropriate age. Together Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist form the three Sacraments of Initiation.

Baptizing your child Catholic is an obligation of a Catholic parent, and a requirement to receive a dispensation from your bishop to marry an unbaptized person. Baptizing your child Catholic binds that child FOREVER to the Catholic Church AND to Canon Law. You place upon them all the obligations of a Catholic. So, there is no such thing as teaching them a plurality of religious beliefs and letting them choose.

You and he both need to understand this FULLY. He needs to be aware that undermining the child's faith with atheism is not acceptable.

Originally Posted by flick26

Of course, it would be more ideal if I married a Catholic man but I have fallen in love with my boyfriend and there is no one else that I could ever imagine spending my life with.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I was 21, in college, and dating my atheists boyfriend who *I* thought was the only man I would ever love. Such is young love. You move past it, and you get over it and then you find what God has in store for you if you allow him to be the Lord of your entire life.

I am happily married to the most wonderful Catholic man, a man I know God truly gave me as the ultimate gift in my life. No way does atheist-boy compare in any way to this Godly man.

Originally Posted by flick26

He treats me so well, he is loving and supportive and the most important thing is that he never patronises my beliefs or tries to convert me to atheism.

Not something to base a marriage on.

Originally Posted by flick26

. But is this how I want my children to be raised? In a household where mom and dad can't even agree on this huge topic? Mom believes in God but dad doesn't really and doesn't like religion?

No.

Originally Posted by flick26

I want my children to grow up in a solid household with firm beliefs. If we are married, who will I turn to for spiritual advice? If I lose God, who will help me find him? Apart from my father and my mother, no one it seems. So does this mean I should break up with my boyfriend of 2 years?

I think you know the answer to this. An atheist husband is not compatible with your vision for faith, family, and marriage.

Originally Posted by flick26

I have invested my whole heart into this relationship and I have never met anyone who makes me feel happier. But I feel so conflicted and I wonder if we will run into trouble ten years down the line.

Yes, you learned the lesson the hard way. So did I. I am sorry you have invested so much time and emotion into a relationship that has had an elephant in the living room the entire time. You have avoided it for the most part, and you cannot avoid it any more.

Originally Posted by flick26

I wonder if anyone could offer me some advice or anecdotal stories or just anything really. Much appreciated, A

No one can tell you what to do. Anecdotally, you will get many people on here who will tell you that they are married to a non-believer and that it "works". I would suggest that any mixed faith marriage "works" by way of compromises that one or the other makes. Either one or the other isn't seriously practicing their faith/non-faith and that one lets the other take the lead with the children and religion.

Two people who are serious about their faith, or lack of it, are not going to have a peaceful, successful marriage. How can they? One will have to compromise a part of who they are and what they believe OR live in strife.

No way would I wish that on my worst enemy. I can only tell you that I believe if you put God first in all things, you will grrow in holiness and if marriage is your vocation you will find a man with whom you are equally yoked and who God has in store for you.

[flick26]

Originally Posted by 1ke

OK, stop right here.

If you baptize your children Catholic, they ARE Catholic. There is no "choosing" when they are older. There is no "choosing" to be confirmed or not. You misunderstand Confirmation if you believe it to be some sort of "choice" to be Catholic. The bishop does the confirming, and what he is confirming is the candidate's baptism. All Catholics are obligated to receive Confirmation upon the call of the bishop at the appropriate age. Together Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist form the three Sacraments of Initiation.

Baptizing your child Catholic is an obligation of a Catholic parent, and a requirement to receive a dispensation from your bishop to marry an unbaptized person. Baptizing your child Catholic binds that child FOREVER to the Catholic Church AND to Canon Law. You place upon them all the obligations of a Catholic. So, there is no such thing as teaching them a plurality of religious beliefs and letting them choose.


You and he both need to understand this FULLY. He needs to be aware that undermining the child's faith with atheism is not acceptable.




Yeah, I thought the same thing when I was 21, in college, and dating my atheists boyfriend who *I* thought was the only man I would ever love. Such is young love. You move past it, and you get over it and then you find what God has in store for you if you allow him to be the Lord of your entire life.

I am happily married to the most wonderful Catholic man, a man I know God truly gave me as the ultimate gift in my life. No way does atheist-boy compare in any way to this Godly man.



Not something to base a marriage on.



No.



I think you know the answer to this. An atheist husband is not compatible with your vision for faith, family, and marriage.



Yes, you learned the lesson the hard way. So did I. I am sorry you have invested so much time and emotion into a relationship that has had an elephant in the living room the entire time. You have avoided it for the most part, and you cannot avoid it any more.



No one can tell you what to do. Anecdotally, you will get many people on here who will tell you that they are married to a non-believer and that it "works". I would suggest that any mixed faith marriage "works" by way of compromises that one or the other makes. Either one or the other isn't seriously practicing their faith/non-faith and that one lets the other take the lead with the children and religion.

Two people who are serious about their faith, or lack of it, are not going to have a peaceful, successful marriage. How can they? One will have to compromise a part of who they are and what they believe OR live in strife.

No way would I wish that on my worst enemy. I can only tell you that I believe if you put God first in all things, you will grrow in holiness and if marriage is your vocation you will find a man with whom you are equally yoked and who God has in store for you.

I do apologise, I always thought that confirmation was your choice to confirm your faith. Unfortunately, I was never called by my bishop, I had to ask and apply to attend confirmation classes. This is what lead me to the assumption that it was my choice. Just out of interest, what happens with those who do not have their confirmation? Or those who were baptised but never practise their faith or "pretend" to be Catholic or even choose to become atheist later in life? Is there a procedure to "undo" their baptism?

Thank you for your reply. I know that I am young and I have no idea what's ahead of me but letting him go is the most difficult thing I can imagine. I agree with you, I definitely tried to avoid this topic and pushed it to the back of my mind and whenever it was brought up I guess I looked at it with rose-tinted glasses and assumed everything would be fine. But in the event that we do marry (which I know will not be a sacramental marriage), is this a sin in the eyes of God?

[Allegra]

Assuming he has never been married before and he acknowledges that you are required to raise your children in the Catholic faith, you will probably be granted a dispensation to marry this man. However, I really fear for your future if you do. A husband is supposed to be the spiritual leader of the family. The Christian view of marriage requires that a wife submit to her husband and her husband submit to the will of God. I just don't see how that equation can work when the husband is a non-believer. Besides that, who will be there for you when your faith is failing? (You may think that will never happen to you but few manage to go their whole lives without their faith being challenged.) A person needs a spouse to be the strong one in such a situation. It would be very difficult for you if you have to carry your whole family spiritually with no help from your husband. (Or possibly, even hindrance from him) Alot of people will tell you that their special atheist eventually came to Christ after they were married and yes, that sort of thing does happen. But it is a pretty big risk to take.

[TheRealJuliane]

Research has shown that even if the mother is devout, it is the FATHER who has more influence over the spiritual direction of the children. So if your boyfriend is an atheist, your kids would have an uphill battle to stay practicing Catholics (assuming he keeps his word - many don't). The whole "let them decide" garbage means that the kids effectively grow up with NO FAITH whatsoever and it's really hard to create that for yourself once you are an adult. In the interest of "fairness" or whatever, the parent who believes "The child can decide for himself" goes about tearing down ALL faiths equally, leaving the child with nothing to draw upon. It's a very bad thing.

Please don't risk this - it is your children's eternal futures we are talking about!

[flick26]

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

Research has shown that even if the mother is devout, it is the FATHER who has more influence over the spiritual direction of the children. So if your boyfriend is an atheist, your kids would have an uphill battle to stay practicing Catholics (assuming he keeps his word - many don't). The whole "let them decide" garbage means that the kids effectively grow up with NO FAITH whatsoever and it's really hard to create that for yourself once you are an adult. In the interest of "fairness" or whatever, the parent who believes "The child can decide for himself" goes about tearing down ALL faiths equally, leaving the child with nothing to draw upon. It's a very bad thing.

Please don't risk this - it is your children's eternal futures we are talking about!

My boyfriend's father is in fact a devout Christian (not Catholic though and he never raised his children in the religion, so he was not even baptised) and his family effectively disowned him for marrying an atheist as my boyfriend's mother is an atheist. But I suppose in this case, he just followed his mother's path.

I'm not sure I agree with your point in bold. To be truthful, religion only came into my life when I was nine years old. As untraditional as it sounds (and I am a little embarrassed), religion only played a major part in my life from the age of 10 and from there I developed my own faith. I had no real input from my parents (who were also Catholic), just a few mentions of God and the Bible. No one except the church and my sunday classes created a spiritual environment for me.
By the age of 15, my faith was undoubtedly stronger than the vast majority of my peers at my Catholic high school who had been brought up from a young age in Catholicism. These kids didn't attend church outside or inside of school, they were never interested in our Bible studies, they just went along with what their parents had told them. They are just Catholic by name and that was something that really annoyed me and still does to this day. Maybe it was because we were teens but heir religion had no significance in their life. But I was also a teen and religion was a vital component of myself.

I really don't want my children to end up like this. So, I figured by teaching them about Catholicism (why would I tear down my own faith?!) but not forcing them to do whatever I say without understanding what they are doing and why, I would raise children who turned out like myself. But I am only in my early twenties and children will not be coming until a decade or so. In time, I will probably figure out the best method to ensure my children don't live as "Catholics" by name. I would rather my children be true, believing Catholics or don't be one at all.

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by flick26

My boyfriend's father is in fact a devout Christian (not Catholic though and he never raised his children in the religion, so he was not even baptised) and his family effectively disowned him for marrying an atheist as my boyfriend's mother is an atheist. But I suppose in this case, he just followed his mother's path.

I'm not sure I agree with your point in bold. To be truthful, religion only came into my life when I was nine years old. As untraditional as it sounds (and I am a little embarrassed), religion only played a major part in my life from the age of 10 and from there I developed my own faith. I had no real input from my parents (who were also Catholic), just a few mentions of God and the Bible. No one except the church and my sunday classes created a spiritual environment for me.
By the age of 15, my faith was undoubtedly stronger than the vast majority of my peers at my Catholic high school who had been brought up from a young age in Catholicism. These kids didn't attend church outside or inside of school, they were never interested in our Bible studies, they just went along with what their parents had told them. They are just Catholic by name and that was something that really annoyed me and still does to this day. Maybe it was because we were teens but heir religion had no significance in their life. But I was also a teen and religion was a vital component of myself.

I really don't want my children to end up like this. So, I figured by teaching them about Catholicism (why would I tear down my own faith?!) but not forcing them to do whatever I say without understanding what they are doing and why, I would raise children who turned out like myself. But I am only in my early twenties and children will not be coming until a decade or so. In time, I will probably figure out the best method to ensure my children don't live as "Catholics" by name. I would rather my children be true, believing Catholics or don't be one at all.

Your case is different from the statistics. Of course there will always be exceptions, but IN GENERAL, letting children decide for themselves which religion they want to participate in, leads to atheism.

Also, are you really thinking of not having children until you are in your 30's? because many young women put off having children until they feel "ready," only to find out that their fertile years are gone. I suggest that when you do marry, you have children as soon as possible (since our faith demands that we be open to life when we are married).

[Cyclone Ranger]

An interfaith (or faith/no faith) marriage is HARD. It's so much easier when it's just the two of you and you can agree to disagree. But when the kids ask what happens to grandma after she dies, or you're "forcing" the kids to go to Mass instead of watching cartoons on Sunday, it gets tough.

There may come a time when the kids ask about unbelievers and why daddy doesn't believe. If he answers them, then he's essentially telling them that your faith is untrue. Ditto for when you say why you do believe in God. One of our kids follows my faith, while the other does not. He won't get baptized, and I can't "force" him until he makes his own decision.

I'm going to echo what someone said above, that at 22, you are still young. Like the person above, I'm not saying you're immature or putting you down. I was thinking the other day about a breakup I had at age 22. It was 15 years ago, and I still remember the exact date. It was like the world was ending. After a year, it still hurt. After 2, I was ok. After 5, I was happy and didn't care about the breakup. After 7 or so years, I was so happy that I didn't end up with him. I'm now super grateful that I didn't end up with him.

[joanofarc2008]

For all the reasons 1ke mentioned and hearing the experiences of others I will give you some advice:

Don't do it, run, now. Let him find someone who shares his beliefs. You find someone who shares yours.

[Julian0404]

Mart Twain was atheist and he married a christian woman who was intent on converting him. When she died, she was also atheist as his strong personality and arguments caused her to lose the faith.
You are already agreeing with this man on "non-christian concepts" regarding how to raise any future children. He has already swayed you from the foundation of your true faith.
Walk away, you have already started to surrender to please him, just walk away - he knows the reason, this is no long good bye, your soul is in danger if you continue to confuse your faith with his "reasoning".

[Gordon Shaw]

Hello, Ms. A.
While searching some material on something else, I came across this blog in which you participated. My wife and I are elderly Protestants who care about people regardless of their religious preferences. Neither of us were married until we were around fifty (two decades ago)–two teachers, now retired. See Gordon Shaw on Facebook. My life is open and I seek Christ and his Glory.

I have seen this situation result in good and bad results. I would always say never marry an atheist but I do understand love and in my earlier life “dated” many sorts of religious and non-religious preferences. God will give you the man He wants you to have when the time comes. Maybe this man is that man. Paul, in 1Cor 7:16 says that once you are married, it is best to remain if possible, with your spouse: For how knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband ? Or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife ? (Douay-Rheims)

I have no doubt that he is a find young man, in most regards, or you would not be seeing him. You might in the end, marry him. However, you will have many problems attached to the fact that he is not a believer. I may be too harsh, not knowing the young man, but many times the atheist husband (or wife) may become contemptuous of your beliefs. He may, as time goes on, resent the fact that you are desirous to raise your children in any belief system, for which also he may have contempt.

I would again remind you of something else God said through Paul. 2 Co 6:14-15: 14 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever? (Douay-Rheims)

So yes, if you marry a man who is quite tolerant and open, I emphasize open, you may have a wonderful marriage. If he is not tolerant and perhaps somewhat antagonistic toward God and His Christ, you may run into many, many problems, and much heartache.

I would recommend you see your Priest, who I think will agree with me wholeheartedly, and ask for as many counseling sessions as he your Priest thinks fit to see what reason your beau has against God. You know, regarding religious wars down through history, we must remember that no matter what that all men (and women) ourselves included, are sinners who muddle along through life. I spent an entire career teaching American and World History and tell about a few Atillas, Hitlers, Stalins and many others. You can see how the world becomes WITHOUT religion, particularly the religion of Jesus Christ.

When I complete this letter, I am going to pray for you both; for your momentous decision and for God to turn his heart to the Lord.

Best wishes in your walk in Jesus Christ.

[joanofarc2008]

Couple of other questions as this will impact your marriage:

How does he feel about contraception/NFP?

How does he feel about getting married in the Church?

Does he understand that pre-engagement sessions with a priest will be a requirement?

How has he been about chastity prior to marriage?

[flick26]

Originally Posted by Julian0404

Mart Twain was atheist and he married a christian woman who was intent on converting him. When she died, she was also atheist as his strong personality and arguments caused her to lose the faith.
You are already agreeing with this man on "non-christian concepts" regarding how to raise any future children. He has already swayed you from the foundation of your true faith.
Walk away, you have already started to surrender to please him, just walk away - he knows the reason, this is no long good bye, your soul is in danger if you continue to confuse your faith with his "reasoning".

I just want to make it clear that I have not surrendered to ANY of his concepts. My provisional idea on how to raise my future children was a decision I made long before I met him and it's a decision that I have justified in previous posts. I think it is unfair that you are just assuming this.

[Julian0404]

Originally Posted by flick26

I just want to make it clear that I have not surrendered to ANY of his concepts. My provisional idea on how to raise my future children was a decision I made long before I met him and it's a decision that I have justified in previous posts. I think it is unfair that you are just assuming this.

The dangers of unbelief are subtle. And in an intimate union with a professed atheist, you will most likely, and very subtly, discover the faith you had when you entered the union, is no longer the same faith you have years later. Not intentionally, but softly for love of consideration and compromise with your spouse. Why attack your faith with swords when he can use love more effectively, more subtly. And if you as an adult can protect yourself, how can a child who loves unconditionally NOT embrace the beliefs of his/her father while growing up? This union is not about your soul, it is about your soul and your childrens, who cannot protect themselves as you profess you can.

[777rak]

Originally Posted by joanofarc2008

For all the reasons 1ke mentioned and hearing the experiences of others I will give you some advice:

Don't do it, run, now. Let him find someone who shares his beliefs. You find someone who shares yours.

Exactly!