Gun Totting Catholic? Disagree with The Church on Gun Control

[rightwingcon81]

So I'm having a hrad time with this. I joined CA after years of just reading posts I dug up on google, I had to come on here and ask about gun control.

I believe iN Christ, I believe He founded our Church for the good of all mankind, and rarely find myself disagreeing with Holy Mother Church, but this has got me going nuts.

Almost 2 years ago I received a call from an unknown person threatening to kill me. The threat was real, it was scary, and I was freaked out. I went out and bought a shotgun for my home. I live in NYS and getting a long gun outside of the city is no problem, getting a handgun, and esp. a handgun for concealed carry is a different story, what's more I work in NYC and that is not at all easy.

I have always believed in the 2nd amendment, I believe in self defense, but this was the first time I felt I needed a gun.

Now I am a big gun buyer, guns have always fasinated me, they are tools, and in many cases, beautifully crafted machines. What's more, a gun could one day save my life, and the lives of my family. I pray to God that never has to happen, but if it does, I want to be ready. In researching, I have found that US Bishops favor gun control, even want to one day eliminate guns entirely from our society, that is almost a direct quote. How can Catholic Bishops be this way? I understand the role of the Church as peace maker, and I wish the world were perfect and guns were NOT necessary, but they are. There are evil people out there, and sometimes one guy with a gun is all it takes to stop evil.

How can the Bishop who made the above statement say that the police and military should be the only ones to have guns? Are we not allowed to defend ourselves when the police or military are not an option? Are we not granted by the founding father this basic right in order to prevent tyrants from taking over our nation?

Did Jesus not say;

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

?

We are meant to preserve life are we not? Are our own lives not worth preserving? Must we coward and wait for the govt to come and rescue us?

This and the economic lean to the left of the Church in recent times as left me questioning some of our leaders, not Gods instrument on earth, but those who are leading her.

[Arizona Mike]

At least one saint used his skill with a handgun to stop the sexual assault of a young woman by a mob. There is a movement to commemorate him as the patron saint of handgunners:

http://www.gunsaint.com/stagnaro.asp

[Et Cetera]

I've never owned one.

[Rence]

I don't understand your dilemma. The Church doesn't forbid guns, and certainly doesn't forbid protecting one's self or their loved ones.

I would worry about being paranoid though. And I would make sure you know how to properly use a gun.

[Operalan]

I own two guns and also believe in gun control. Gun control does not mean that there are no guns. Responsible and legal ownership is what the laws should encourage. I also believe that there are certain guns that should be banned as far as private ownership. This is only common sense.

[mab23]

I own a shotgon , and its in my room - but I would like to see the day where guns aren't need - although I don't think it will be in our lifetime

[pnewton]

Originally Posted by Operalan

I also believe that there are certain guns that should be banned as far as private ownership.

Maybe bazookas, rocket lauchers and such.

I personally do not like guns, though I own one. I prefer to rely on less lethal means of protection. But this is not a Church issue. The Catholic Church has always supported the right to use deadly force to protect yourself or others. It can even be a grave duty in some situations. I think the OP is concerned about something that doesn't exist. Practically speaking, an armed populace is the greatest deterent to crime and tyranny, in my opinion. Really, most of the practical application is just opinion and we can all disagree.

[shipwrkd]

Originally Posted by pnewton

I personally do not like guns, though I own one. I prefer to rely on less lethal means of protection. But this is not a Church issue. The Catholic Church has always supported the right to use deadly force to protect yourself or others. It can even be a grave duty in some situations. I think the OP is concerned about something that doesn't exist. Practically speaking, an armed populace is the greatest deterent to crime and tyranny, in my opinion. Really, most of the practical application is just opinion and we can all disagree.

This is spot on. There are those who would never think of owning a gun and there are those that will only give them up when they are pried from their cold, dead hands. That's what makes this country so great, we are allowed to disagree, to bear arms, to vote and to choose our religion. It's unfortunate, but it will take a gun in someone's hand, to preserve these rights

This thread could go on longer then I can, I enjoyed all the opinions..

[Cristiano]

Originally Posted by pnewton

......I personally do not like guns, though I own one. I prefer to rely on less lethal means of protection. But this is not a Church issue. The Catholic Church has always supported the right to use deadly force to protect yourself or others. It can even be a grave duty in some situations.................

I really like guns and I really like safety. However, I always amazed when people rely on a firearm as a first line of defense in a house. Any reasonable security expert will tell you that you always need to layer your security. For a house I think that layers would be: thorny bushes in front of windows, illuminated and clear entryways, solid locks and doors, alarm system, dogs, and a firearm as the last line.

[partypilot1]

My wife posed an excellent question to me during a discussion about total reliance on Gods will and our action. She asked, “If you have total trust in God, then why do you carry a gun?” My response leaned heavily toward (Matthew 25:14) the servant who buried his talents instead of using them to make more. The Catholic interpretation of this is “Faithful use of one’s gifts will lead to participation in the fullness of the kingdom” and in this case I see it as God gave me the gift, drive, enjoyment, and pleasure of guns and the healthy understanding the consequences they can pose. A gun is only a tool, same as a knife, shovel or an axe. Furthermore, he calls everyone to the grave duty of protecting the sanctity of human life. I carry a gun because I, maybe one day but hope never, will be called to need this tool to protect the loss of human life. God gave me the intellect to determine if all alternate options have been exhausted, if the circumstances calls for and if the action will directly be responsible for the protect human life.

Taking a human life, whether justified or not, is a grave matter. Beyond the legal ramifications, justifiable or not, there are also psychological ones which are much more restrictive. The gap between these two have been responsible for many destroyed lives and sleepless nights (note George Zimmerson). The story of the prisoners’ nightmares is a constant reminder to me that in order for me to end a human life (and accept the psychological consequences) I must be absolutely sure that there are no other options. The intent is always to protect human life, even if there is an unintentional loss of one.

[maryjk]

Originally Posted by Cristiano

I really like guns and I really like safety. However, I always amazed when people rely on a firearm as a first line of defense in a house. Any reasonable security expert will tell you that you always need to layer your security. For a house I think that layers would be: thorny bushes in front of windows, illuminated and clear entryways, solid locks and doors, alarm system, dogs, and a firearm as the last line.

I couldn't imagine seeing a firearm as a first line of defense. It is the last line. (Or pretty close to it.)

[rightwingcon81]

Originally Posted by Operalan

I own two guns and also believe in gun control. Gun control does not mean that there are no guns. Responsible and legal ownership is what the laws should encourage. I also believe that there are certain guns that should be banned as far as private ownership. This is only common sense.

Sensible gun ownership? Sure, if you're a raving looney, I would hope you don't own a gun, if you're a person with a criminal past, and you paid your debt to society, you should not be stripped of your rights though. If you're that bad, perhaps we shouldn't let you out of jail.

Registration does nothing to prevent gun violence or crime, I don't believe in it, it only serves to tell the government which can be tyrannical, who has guns and how many they have.

And what guns should we not have? Full auto rifles? Why not? The military and police have them, why can't we? It was the visiion of our founding fathers that we have the SAME weapons as the government. To give the government free reign, and letting them have some weapons and not us. That opens the door to tyranny.

High capacity magazines? Why not? I see no issue with types of weapons unless we're talking about offensive weapons such as nuclear weapons and the like, these weapons can not be used to defend but to destroy, we can't put the genie back in the bottle and governments will have them, and if governments will have them anyway, I don't want our government left out.

[pnewton]

Originally Posted by rightwingcon81

Sensible gun ownership? Sure, if you're a raving looney, I would hope you don't own a gun, if you're a person with a criminal past, and you paid your debt to society, you should not be stripped of your rights though. If you're that bad, perhaps we shouldn't let you out of jail.

I am kind of glad we don't let convicts run around with guns. Just because people eventually earn their freedom does not mean that it is wise to let them have armed freedom. A little thing called recitivism, you know. Some criminals do go back, or even escalate their crime.

[bscastro]

Greetings,

Regarding the original post, was there something said or that you read that had you believe there was a teaching against guns by the Church?

I don't own guns but do own tactical knives and other non-firearm weapons for practice of martial arts and self-defense. I would never use these weapons on another human being with the intent to hurt them other than as a last resort of self-defense. I don't remember seeing any "official" teaching of the Church against this.

Perhaps this was a priest or bishop expressing his opinion on the matter?

In Christ,
Bryan

[Joe 5859]

Is there some specific statement from a bishop or bishops that would lead you to conclude that the official Catholic position is that guns should be banned?