What is it with the Jesuits?

Charlemagne II · #1 May 6, '12, 9:40 am

Why have the Jesuits been routinely suppressed in so many countries throughout their history?

Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?

Wasn't this Order originally created to be the pope's own Catholic soldiers in the field?

Inquiringperson · #2 May 6, '12, 9:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

Why have the Jesuits been routinely suppressed in so many countries throughout their history?

Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?

Wasn't this Order originally created to be the pope's own Catholic soldiers in the field?

Most Jesuits are good. The bad ones just get media attention.

Charlemagne II · #3 May 6, '12, 10:07 am

Inquiring

The bad ones just get media attention.

So why can't the bad ones rein in the good ones? Is the Order without discipline?

yellowantphil · #4 May 6, '12, 11:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

So why can't the bad ones rein in the good ones?

Surely it would be better if the good ones reined in the bad ones.

martininthefiel · #5 May 6, '12, 12:06 pm

Why don't you go online and do some research into the Society of Jesus? You are simply engaging in ignorant and ill-informed ad hominem attack.

The Jesuits were often suppressed because of their attacks on corruption in the Church, and in lands where they were present. One of the things we are called to do as Catholics is 'speak Truth to power', and the Society has often done that quite effectively.

**Dale_M** · #6 May 6, '12, 10:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?

I am not quite sure what you are referring to, but you might want to make sure that Jesuits actually run the colleges. Many colleges and universities were founded, and run, by religious orders. But many transferred operations to a secular board decades ago. For example, Georgetown University.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

So why can't the bad ones rein in the good ones? Is the Order without discipline?

It would help this discussion if you would mention particular instances of abuse, rather than writing vague generalities.

Charlemagne II · #7 May 6, '12, 10:22 am

O.K. Let's start with this one.

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/news...6-6ae50a5d221d

Are you going to say the Jesuits are powerless to weigh in on who will be commencement speakers and who will not?

**Dale_M** · #8 May 6, '12, 10:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

O.K. Let's start with this one.

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/news...6-6ae50a5d221d

Are you going to say the Jesuits are powerless to weigh in on who will be commencement speakers and who will not?

I don't know. What relationship does the Society of Jesus have with the University of San Francisco today?

The article you posted suggests that the commencement speaker issue is something for Archbishop Niederauer to handle.

And it mentions that Bishop George Murry, SJ requested a Mercy College in his diocese to change speakers. Should he be condemned because he is a Jesuit?

Charlemagne II · #9 May 6, '12, 10:39 am

Dale

Looks like you are looking for wiggle room to get the Jesuits off the hot seat. Is that going to be your question every time a source is brought to your attention? "What role do the Jesuits play?" Read the article!

And it mentions that Bishop George Murry, SJ requested a Mercy College in his diocese to change speakers. Should he be condemned because he is a Jesuit?

Not correct. When a priest of an Order becomes a bishop he surrenders membership in his Order. Technically, this bishop became a member of the American college of bishops and therefore represents now the will of the collective bishops, not the will of an individual Jesuit or the collective will of the Jesuits.

**Dale_M** · #10 May 6, '12, 11:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

Dale

Looks like you are looking for wiggle room to get the Jesuits off the hot seat.

No, I am simply asking that you have some idea of what you are criticizing, instead of making vague and possibly ill-founded accusations.

I did read the article, but I don't see what it has to do with criticizing Jesuits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

When a priest of an Order becomes a bishop he surrenders membership in his Order.

I don't think that is true. It is easy to see that he is still a member of the Society of Jesus because he has the initials SJ after his name.

Charlemagne II · #11 May 6, '12, 11:14 am

Our own bishop uses the initials of his Order after his name as a courtesy to inform people of the Order to which he belonged. Our bishop is no longer subject to the authority of the head of the Order to which he belonged. He is a bishop, no longer a missionary priest, even though you might say he lives in missionary country!.

Charlemagne II · #12 May 6, '12, 11:17 am

yellow

Surely it would be better if the good ones reined in the bad ones.

Thanks. My moment of dyslexia to savor!

DhuAlQarnayn · #13 May 6, '12, 11:57 am

The Jesuits get an unfair rap. They have historically been given the most challenging, dangerous tasks in the most hostile places, and they have usually succeeded. Time and time again, they have been the ones to suppress heresies and establish the church in lands where Catholics were prosecuted. Once the situation has stabilized, other groups enter those territories and try to suppress the Jesuits, simply because they had become the de facto heads of the church in areas where nobody else dared operate.

In the United States, their mission was to strengthen the scholastic and intellectual profile of the American church by building research universities, and they succeeded beyond anybody's wildest imagination. The universities they started -- Georgetown, USF, Boston College, etc., have become recognized as some of the best in the country, and as their profile has grown, they have become more attractive to secular intellectuals and non-Catholics. Due to the small number of Jesuits, the huge sums of money involved in these institutions, and the relatively little direct support the Vatican has provided for the mission, these large universities have come under secular control, albeit still with a very strong Catholic presence. This mostly hasn't happened to the colleges and universities that other orders and dioceses have set up, simply because they haven't become large enough or successful enough for anybody in the broader world of academia to take note of them.

Inquiringperson · #14 May 6, '12, 5:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

Dale

Looks like you are looking for wiggle room to get the Jesuits off the hot seat. Is that going to be your question every time a source is brought to your attention? "What role do the Jesuits play?" Read the article!

And it mentions that Bishop George Murry, SJ requested a Mercy College in his diocese to change speakers. Should he be condemned because he is a Jesuit?

Not correct. When a priest of an Order becomes a bishop he surrenders membership in his Order. Technically, this bishop became a member of the American college of bishops and therefore represents now the will of the collective bishops, not the will of an individual Jesuit or the collective will of the Jesuits.

If a priest of an Order becomes a Bishop, he still is a member of that Order, but he only has a voice in the Order. He's got no voting power.

Charlemagne II · #15 May 7, '12, 9:19 am

Martin

This argument, I suspect, will certainly generate more heat than light. It is up to you to support your accusations, and you have not cited a single fact to support your claim. You obviously don't like the Jesuits; that is your right. But you are bearing false witness against them, and you have not made a single rational point.

I went to a Jesuit high school. I know a lot of Jesuit priests. A parish I frequently attend often enlists Jesuits to hear Confessions, and celebrate Mass. I have yet to see an example of what you allege.

In spite of the fact that you do not read the sources I gave you, here is another one.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/...?storyid=14218

You really are obstinately defensive instead of offering an explanation of why so many people are truly upset with the chronic association of Jesuits with radical left-wing politics that are contrary to the what the Bishops teach. Do you like the Jesuits more than you like the Bishops?

Please stop saying I have given no evidence and just admit that you have refused to look at all the sources I have cited and give any answer other than ad hominems. That is the tactic of sometime who has not been trained to think!

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