The meaning of the word "impossible".

fakename · #1 Jul 6, '12, 12:46 pm

When we say that something is impossible, and therefore not morally binding, do we mean that it is impossible in the sense that it could never happen or do we mean that it is practically impossible (it could happen but only with little certainty)?

One includes the other but not vice versa.

iProfess · #2 Jul 6, '12, 1:40 pm

I would say practically impossible (by human standards).
To quote the ever famous verse in Philippians "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." -Philippians 4:13
There is nothing that is impossible with God. One only has to look at various miracles that have happened over the 2000 year history of the church.
Does it seem impossible that bread physically became flesh and blood?
It happened through Christ: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucha.../lanciano.html
Does it seem impossible that a priest levitated around his parish in front of thousands in the middle of the Mass out of spiritual ecstasy?
It happened through Christ: http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=72
The list goes on and on.

Jesus himself said "Amen, I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." - Matthew 17:20

So I truly don't think that anything is "impossible" I just think that sometimes we don't have enough faith to make the seemingly impossible possible.

In Christ's Peace,
Billy

**1ke** · #3 Jul 6, '12, 1:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

When we say that something is impossible, and therefore not morally binding, do we mean that it is impossible in the sense that it could never happen or do we mean that it is practically impossible (it could happen but only with little certainty)?

Well, fakename, what do YOU think someone means when they say it was "impossible" to get to Mass last Sunday?

fakename · #4 Jul 6, '12, 10:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ke

Well, fakename, what do YOU think someone means when they say it was "impossible" to get to Mass last Sunday?

Personally I think that it is safe to say that they mean the latter -possible and not likely.

But things that are never going to happen also fit the definition. So in my characteristic carefulness, I decided to ask for clarification.

DeepBlueSea · #5 Jul 6, '12, 3:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

When we say that something is impossible, and therefore not morally binding, do we mean that it is impossible in the sense that it could never happen or do we mean that it is practically impossible (it could happen but only with little certainty)?

One includes the other but not vice versa.

Possibility is used to describe ability. It is binary. Yes or not.
Probability deals with degree of certainty. It has distribution.

E.g. It is possible but not probable that evolution gives rise to the origin of life.

thistle · #6 Jul 6, '12, 6:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

When we say that something is impossible, and therefore not morally binding, do we mean that it is impossible in the sense that it could never happen or do we mean that it is practically impossible (it could happen but only with little certainty)?

One includes the other but not vice versa.

There are no degrees of possibility. Either something is impossible or it is possible.
There are, however, degrees of probability.

fakename · #7 Jul 6, '12, 10:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

There are no degrees of possibility. Either something is impossible or it is possible.
There are, however, degrees of probability.

Just for clarification, here's what I mean:

A possible thing has degrees of probability. It's possible that dragons exist but the probability that they exist is 0. It's possible that I'll live to 120 but that probability, although greater than 0 is still small. So in this way I mean that a possible thing is also probable. So my earlier statements are not inconsistent.

Plus anything that is possible could occur given some circumstances. So according to the frequency at which these possibilities and circumstances are realized, in this way too possible things are also probable.

**Bookcat** · #8 Jul 6, '12, 7:22 pm

Basically a couple categories that are used in theology are:

"impossibility": when something is (given the circumstances) not possible -- as in it is impossible for me to make it to Sunday Mass because I am being held captive by terrorists so I can not go. I really simply can not get out and go to Mass. Or I am stranded on a desert Island with no way off.

"moral impossibility": when something is say very difficult (unduly burdensome) though it could be possible to do so physically with say great deal of effort. (not a precise definition here --but to give the jist). Trying to think of an example related to the other -- here is I would think a good one -- as I am hiking in the deep deep forest and suddenly I realize it is a Holy Day of Obligation --and I know that likely it is "possible" with say hiking in the other direction from where I am going during my vacation --for next 12 hours that I can perhaps make it to the late late Mass. (NB -I would not be one found in such an example....as my wife could tell you).

Now in giving these definitions I do not intend for them to necessarily apply to a given subject -- each subject may require more distinctions.

fakename · #9 Jul 6, '12, 10:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookcat

Basically a couple categories that are used in theology are:

"impossibility": when something is (given the circumstances) not possible -- as in it is impossible for me to make it to Sunday Mass because I am being held captive by terrorists so I can not go. I really simply can not get out and go to Mass. Or I am stranded on a desert Island with no way off.

"moral impossibility": when something is say very difficult (unduly burdensome) though it could be possible to do so physically with say great deal of effort. (not a precise definition here --but to give the jist). Trying to think of an example related to the other -- here is I would think a good one -- as I am hiking in the deep deep forest and suddenly I realize it is a Holy Day of Obligation --and I know that likely it is "possible" with say hiking in the other direction from where I am going during my vacation --for next 12 hours that I can perhaps make it to the late late Mass. (NB -I would not be one found in such an example....as my wife could tell you).

Now in giving these definitions I do not intend for them to necessarily apply to a given subject -- each subject may require more distinctions.

What do you mean that each subject may require more distinctions?

**Bookcat** · #10 Jul 7, '12, 9:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

What do you mean that each subject may require more distinctions?

It may simply need such. Each subject may have it particular aspects and one has to know what is meant in each.

For example one could not say "it is impossible" for me not to commit murder. But it could be impossible for me to get to Sunday Mass.

(For example too one can note that negative precepts are different than positive precepts- (which may admit of exceptions))

fakename · #11 Jul 7, '12, 11:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookcat

It may simply need such. Each subject may have it particular aspects and one has to know what is meant in each.

For example one could not say "it is impossible" for me not to commit murder. But it could be impossible for me to get to Sunday Mass.

(For example too one can note that negative precepts are different than positive precepts- (which may admit of exceptions))

Are you using impossible in different senses here? Are the different subjects respectively "murder" and "getting to mass"?

Here's what I think you are saying: The subject of murder (which is different from that of mass) is possible for me to do so I can't say that it is impossible for me to not murder, or what comes to the same, that killing someone is beyond my ability. However, in the subject of mass, it is impossible (in the sense of morally impossible) for me to get to mass. And this has to do with the fact that the two precepts of "not to kill" and "go to mass" are respectively negative and positive. Is that right?

**Bookcat** · #12 Jul 8, '12, 5:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

Are you using impossible in different senses here? Are the different subjects respectively "murder" and "getting to mass"?

Here's what I think you are saying: The subject of murder (which is different from that of mass) is possible for me to do so I can't say that it is impossible for me to not murder, or what comes to the same, that killing someone is beyond my ability. However, in the subject of mass, it is impossible (in the sense of morally impossible) for me to get to mass. And this has to do with the fact that the two precepts of "not to kill" and "go to mass" are respectively negative and positive. Is that right?

I was speaking as to the use of impossible in one sense in moral theology -- in terms of excusing from an obligation.

One cannot say it is "impossible for me to not murder this guy-- so by murdering him I do not sin" --for one may never murder....

But one could say "it is impossible for me to get to Mass for I am I am being held captive -- so I do not sin by not going to Mass.

fakename · #13 Jul 9, '12, 9:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookcat

I was speaking as to the use of impossible in one sense in moral theology -- in terms of excusing from an obligation.

One cannot say it is "impossible for me to not murder this guy-- so by murdering him I do not sin" --for one may never murder....

But one could say "it is impossible for me to get to Mass for I am I am being held captive -- so I do not sin by not going to Mass.

So the negative obligation is binding in every case?

**Bookcat** · #14 Jul 9, '12, 10:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

So the negative obligation is binding in every case?

Yes the negative commandments do not admit of exceptions.

You can never for example-- murder, commit adultery, worship idols, commit theft etc

But it can happen that it is not possible to get to Mass on a given Sunday (say there is a blizzard).

fakename · #15 Jul 10, '12, 12:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookcat

Yes the negative commandments do not admit of exceptions.

You can never for example-- murder, commit adultery, worship idols, commit theft etc

But it can happen that it is not possible to get to Mass on a given Sunday (say there is a blizzard).

Thanks again.

No flattery intended but you are proving to be quite the mine of information.