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  #466  
Old Feb 19, '13, 10:05 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by guanophore View Post
.
My dear oblate,

Quote:
Coptic, have you been hitting the nightcaps a little hard?
You commence with a question that concerns what? Explain this question.

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No, the polemics of the Reformation, and the statements in Exsurge Domine cannot be applied to modern Protestants.
We see things from a different perspective.

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The one I posted from the catechism, that says our separated brethren are not to be charged with the sin of separation. I inserted the link, so you can read the context.
I read the content.

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If you believe this, then it seems to me that posting polemics as you have done is counterproductive.
You did not like the post and believe it has no value.

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I think you were posting it with regard to Itwin.
You are welcome to infer this is you wish.

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If you were addressing it to me then...I don't know what to say about that.
You have said what you said.

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It comes across as though you are throwing stones and being deliberately adversarial.
You are welcome to believe this if you wish.

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I think you were aiming the quote from ED at Itwin, rather uncharitably.
This is a judgement that suggests you read my mind and know my thoughts.

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Indeed, I have reached it by the context of your exchange.
Inferences remain that until a direct question is asked.

Quote:
Only insofar as you have represented them here. You have been quite forceful that Itwin should become Catholic
In your opinion, not knowing my thoughts, my feelings, my intentions that you may inquire about if you wish.
  #467  
Old Feb 19, '13, 10:10 pm
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guanophore guanophore is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telestia View Post
That's why I am not a 'protestant'. I am an evangelical Christian.
You call yourself as such, and it may be that there are some "protestant" ideas with which you do not agree, but the fact is that your faith tradition and theology emanate from the Protestant Reformation.

You probably think your theology and doctrine comes directly from the Bible, but you interpret what you read in an anti-Catholic manner, which is why it is Protestant.
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"The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).



  #468  
Old Feb 20, '13, 9:00 am
ephesians4 ephesians4 is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

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Originally Posted by WildCatholic View Post
Many of my evangelical protestant friends never refer to themselves as protestants. Most of them were members of Campus Crusade, and even this organization didn't really refer to itself as protestant, only Christian. I even had one of my best friends ask me "what's a protestant" (no joke, she never heard of the term which surprised me)

So why do evangelical denominations use only Christian when referring to themselves.Do they want to misinform people that they are the only true Christians. Do they have a lot of disregard for their protestant history? Or do they just feel they've moved beyond the whole Catholic protestant thing, even if they still are protestant? Anyone who can tell me please help
The bottom line is that most Christians outside the Roman Catholic church do not see the world in catholicism-centric terms.

That is they do not see the Christian world as a big schism between the catholic and the non-catholic, or even think very much about the catholic church at all on a day-to-day/year-to-year basis if ever. Most of them will probably have heard of it, and of the pope, and that's about it.

For that reason the term protestant is perhaps historically or theologically interesting but in no way needed by them conversationally.
  #469  
Old Feb 20, '13, 9:08 am
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ephesians4 View Post
The bottom line is that most Christians outside the Roman Catholic church do not see the world in catholicism-centric terms.

That is they do not see the Christian world as a big schism between the catholic and the non-catholic, or even think very much about the catholic church at all on a day-to-day/year-to-year basis if ever. Most of them will probably have heard of it, and of the pope, and that's about it.

For that reason the term protestant is perhaps historically or theologically interesting but in no way needed by them conversationally.
Ephesian,

Here is the dilema...you say this..

Quote:
Christians outside the Roman Catholic church
Do you speak for each and every Christian outside the Roman Catholic Church? Do you know every Christian outside the Catholic Church? What is the population or percent you speak for?

Then you say...

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That is they do not see the Christian world as a big schism between the catholic and the non-catholic,
Who is they? Is it all that proclaim themselves to be Christian that are not Catholic? Do you speak for Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, Protestant Fundamentalist, Protestant Evanglical, Protestant Messianic Jews, Protestant Non-Christians....Who is they?
  #470  
Old Feb 20, '13, 9:36 am
ephesians4 ephesians4 is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Ephesian,
Do you speak for each and every Christian outside the Roman Catholic Church? Do you know every Christian outside the Catholic Church? What is the population or percent you speak for?
I can only speak for the people I have met and know of who are Christian - I don't claim to have undertaken a study.

If that was for some bizarre reason not totally obvious, my mistake. You can replace the word "most" with "many".
  #471  
Old Feb 20, '13, 9:45 am
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ephesians4 View Post
I can only speak for the people I have met and know of who are Christian - I don't claim to have undertaken a study.

If that was for some bizarre reason not totally obvious, my mistake. You can replace the word "most" with "many".
Ephesians,

Or perhaps "those I speak with" would be appropriate and that indicates that perhaps there is a world out there you are not familiar with as there are Protestant in the world that do recognize what has been brought to your attention on this forum. You can no longer say that you do not know that there is Protestant thought, as you now know.

To say you are Christian should cause you to ask some Questions...

Jesus was an asian Jew, Christianity is an Asian Religion.....if Jesus is Lord of all, then He is Lord of History....what is the history of what I believe? Where did my beliefs originate? If I believe the Bible is the word of God, how do I prove it? If I believe that this Bible is the Bible and it differs and is called Protestant or Protocanonicals, how did it get here...?

If I tell someone that I have great news, they may ask the source of that news and if you cannot explain it, then maybe they may not want to listen.
  #472  
Old Feb 20, '13, 9:47 am
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JustaServant JustaServant is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ephesians4 View Post
The bottom line is that most Christians outside the Roman Catholic church do not see the world in catholicism-centric terms.

That is they do not see the Christian world as a big schism between the catholic and the non-catholic, or even think very much about the catholic church at all on a day-to-day/year-to-year basis if ever. Most of them will probably have heard of it, and of the pope, and that's about it.

For that reason the term protestant is perhaps historically or theologically interesting but in no way needed by them conversationally.
I don't think so....
  #473  
Old Feb 20, '13, 10:00 am
ephesians4 ephesians4 is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Ephesians,

Or perhaps "those I speak with" would be appropriate and that indicates that perhaps there is a world out there you are not familiar with as there are Protestant in the world that do recognize what has been brought to your attention on this forum. You can no longer say that you do not know that there is Protestant thought, as you now know.

Thank you for telling me there is a world "out there" I am not familiar with. This has come as something of a revelation for me, as you can imagine.

Do you always condescend to people you don't know? This doesn't seem like something a wise human being would do, although I can't be sure.

Quote:
To say you are Christian should cause you to ask some Questions...

Jesus was an asian Jew, Christianity is an Asian Religion.....if Jesus is Lord of all, then He is Lord of History....what is the history of what I believe? Where did my beliefs originate? If I believe the Bible is the word of God, how do I prove it? If I believe that this Bible is the Bible and it differs and is called Protestant or Protocanonicals, how did it get here...?

If I tell someone that I have great news, they may ask the source of that news and if you cannot explain it, then maybe they may not want to listen.
Sausage Astrolathe Maxpax Starship Hieroglyph. I'm afraid the SNR on that paragraph is very bad, and I have no babelfish, hehe. What is the point you're making?

Explain it in simple terms, as you would to a child, or somebody who wasn't aware the world existed.
  #474  
Old Feb 20, '13, 10:26 am
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ephesians4 View Post
Thank you for telling me there is a world "out there" I am not familiar with. This has come as something of a revelation for me, as you can imagine.

Do you always condescend to people you don't know? This doesn't seem like something a wise human being would do, although I can't be sure.



.
Ephesians,

To dialogue you must express yourself at what ever level you want to be addressed.

Quote:
Sausage Astrolathe Maxpax Starship Hieroglyph. I'm afraid the SNR on that paragraph is very bad, and I have no babelfish, hehe.
You appear to like humor. I have no idea what this means. Explain this to me as if I were a child. What are you trying to say here.

Sausage means....

Astrolathe is ....

Maxpax means

Starship in my experience

Hieroglyph suggest

SNR would indicate the initials to what?

You ask a question of me...

Quote:
What is the point you're making?

Explain it in simple terms, as you would to a child, or somebody who wasn't aware the world existed
Help me understand how anyone can make a point of whatever it is you posted? How can I explain anything as if to a child if the child cannot clarify the question.

Help me, help you.
  #475  
Old Feb 20, '13, 11:17 am
ephesians4 ephesians4 is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustaServant View Post
I don't think so....
Yes, I was called out at great length on "most", which I do concede is possibly not literally the case.

However, the point remains that to other Christians, or indeed whole denominations that lack a reason to differentiate themselves from Catholicism in any way (say they rarely come into contact with catholicism, or they are recent derivatives of some other denomination, or they are 'new denominations' that someone has created), the term "protestant" may simply not be
relevant to them and their lives - not a word they would be likely to use in everyday conversation about their faith even if they take an interest in the concept in study.

I think lots of modern evangelists would be a prime candidates for this.
  #476  
Old Feb 20, '13, 12:06 pm
ephesians4 ephesians4 is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Ephesians,
Help me understand how anyone can make a point of whatever it is you posted? How can I explain anything as if to a child if the child cannot clarify the question.

Help me, help you.
You know, you did hit precisely on the point I was making without realising it, there. Anyway, I do think we are speaking at cross purposes here - I don't think it's always easy to get the measure of a person or the tone of what they are saying, in text only.
  #477  
Old Feb 20, '13, 12:21 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ephesians4 View Post
You know, you did hit precisely on the point I was making without realising it, there. Anyway, I do think we are speaking at cross purposes here - I don't think it's always easy to get the measure of a person or the tone of what they are saying, in text only.
Ephesians,

With all the infirmity noted in text, short of leaning into your computer and asking you....clarify for me, as best you can....

Quote:
What is the point you're making?

Explain it in simple terms, as you would to a child, or somebody who wasn't aware the world existed
What is it you want answered with respect to the point you want explained absent sausages and other such stuff...spell it out with your nimble fingers.
  #478  
Old Feb 20, '13, 1:08 pm
ltwin ltwin is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Itwin,

Lets bury this. I have no response to your answers and while driving today I realized that I posted these questions and if you can imagine someone driving, slapping their forehead, grimacing and wondering.....man, I thought I had posted this horse is dead and let us stop beating it....

It is over....

Let us do this....I have 3 sisters, no brother, and if I had one that could go toe to toe with me like you do and give me the time of day, then you would be a brother I would have....

This statement means something to you. If it has meaning to you then you believe it has value. If it has value then you believe it is worth sharing. If it worth sharing then it is worth contemplating......

Stop Acting like a Christian and just be one...

If this means something to you, if you value it, if it causes you to be happy....then be happy....and if I ever call this to your attention again....remind me that I said...

This horse is dead...it is time to stop beating it....Ok...

In the future, I want you to understand that I cherish you as much as you cherish this statement and more....and with that I will recall that as I respond to any of your postings....

Can we speak of something else already?
Thank you for the kind words. OK back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .
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  #479  
Old Feb 20, '13, 1:09 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

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Originally Posted by ltwin View Post
Thank you for the kind words. OK back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .
Itwin,

Get over it bro.......the programming will just change a bit....
  #480  
Old Feb 20, '13, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

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Originally Posted by 1protestant View Post
that's interesting -- if you are saying "if" God the Holy Spirit acts out side of the roman catholic sacraments-- but mosly not.

because then you are saying you don't recognize God the Holy Spirit manifesting healing , edification, comfort prophesy - in other "evangelical protestants..

interesting perspective
jmcrae said nothing of the sort, friend.

Non-Catholics can be saved, but that's different from saying they will be saved.

And the Holy Spirit is present in manifold ways in all sorts of ecclesial communities. That is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
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