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  #16  
Old Sep 19, '13, 9:17 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by dunkin View Post
Hi...Army base is in Germany, so it's not like we can just go to another parish. The form is being required by the Dod...all bases. Not all have suspended programs. From what I understand suspending the activities was a local decision. . I am just trying to balance my approach. Right now I feel like I can maintain my right to fully participate in Church ( I include RE classes) if I give up more privacy than I already have...or I can keep my privacy, and not be allowed to participate. I have nothing to hide; it's the principle of the whole thing. But, maybe it is wrong to stand on principles when they keep me from helping teach our faith??
I think you should contact the Military Archdiocese. This does not seem like something the DOD can require.
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  #17  
Old Sep 19, '13, 9:23 am
Phemie Phemie is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
I think you should contact the Military Archdiocese. This does not seem like something the DOD can require.
I'm looking at this another way. Can't the DOD require that anyone dealing with children anywhere on a military base undergo rigorous investigation to ensure the children's safety? That would include adults who teach religious ed, regardless of religion, wouldn't it?
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  #18  
Old Sep 19, '13, 9:29 am
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by Phemie View Post
I'm looking at this another way. Can't the DOD require that anyone dealing with children anywhere on a military base undergo rigorous investigation to ensure the children's safety? That would include adults who teach religious ed, regardless of religion, wouldn't it?
I agree in a teaching role, (religious ed), but the liturgy is something else, one that the government should have no say in.

The DoD does not, and should not, have the authority to define who can participate in a Catholic liturgy, and to what extent.
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  #19  
Old Sep 19, '13, 9:43 am
dunkin dunkin is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
No it does not make sense. Medical and dental records release have nothing to do with the Charter For the Protection of Young People. Safe Environment and medical records are two different things.

I think there are some big gaps in the OP's story. I am skeptical.


I know I am new here...assuming we all were at one time. I guess you cannot trust everything you read on line. What gaps can I fill in for you? I was truly just looking for some input for making this decision which, for me, is a real moral dilemma. Everyone here is understandably emotional about the whole thing and we have only been given 3 days to comply ( although I think late paperwork would eventually be processed...the deadline is supposed to speed things up).
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  #20  
Old Sep 19, '13, 1:12 pm
Phemie Phemie is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
I agree in a teaching role, (religious ed), but the liturgy is something else, one that the government should have no say in.

The DoD does not, and should not, have the authority to define who can participate in a Catholic liturgy, and to what extent.
In my book, no adult having contact with children on a military property means exactly that, regardless of the occasion. They're not dictating who can participate in liturgy, they're dictating what adults can have contact with children on their property.
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  #21  
Old Sep 19, '13, 1:18 pm
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Corki Corki is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by Phemie View Post
In my book, no adult having contact with children on a military property means exactly that, regardless of the occasion. They're not dictating who can participate in liturgy, they're dictating what adults can have contact with children on their property.
That's not what the OP said. It's the activities themselves that were suspended by the DoD. As of now, anyway, the DoD is saying that children cannot serve at Mass according to this account. That's where the problem lies.
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  #22  
Old Sep 19, '13, 2:42 pm
Phemie Phemie is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by Corki View Post
That's not what the OP said. It's the activities themselves that were suspended by the DoD. As of now, anyway, the DoD is saying that children cannot serve at Mass according to this account. That's where the problem lies.
I don't see it as a problem. I guess being both a mom and a former military dependent, I feel that having safe kids is more important than having them serve at Mass for a limited time period. They're not being stopped from being at Mass, they're being stopped from being supervised by adults who haven't been thoroughly checked. I don't have a problem with that.
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  #23  
Old Sep 19, '13, 3:03 pm
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Corki Corki is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by Phemie View Post
I don't see it as a problem. I guess being both a mom and a former military dependent, I feel that having safe kids is more important than having them serve at Mass for a limited time period. They're not being stopped from being at Mass, they're being stopped from being supervised by adults who haven't been thoroughly checked. I don't have a problem with that.
I am also a mother (of altar boys) and former military dependent. I don't have a problem with background checks. What I have a problem with is the DoD stipulating how the liturgy will be conducted. According to the OP, they have dictated that Mass cannot be said using youth servers. That's not appropriate. If the same directive came from the Archdiocese of the Military, I would not have a problem with it as long as it didn't become permanent.
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“Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights -- for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture -- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.” Blessed Pope John Paul II

"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life." Pope Francis
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  #24  
Old Sep 20, '13, 12:53 pm
drafdog drafdog is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

I don't see a problem. The base commander seems to have overstepped his authority. Rent a location as close as possible to the base (a tent across the street from the guard shack) and set up your religious education facility there. Parents can car pool their children to classes if necessary. Not being on US government property, there is only the diocesan policy for working with children and disabled to consider.

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  #25  
Old Sep 20, '13, 1:05 pm
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janeway529 janeway529 is online now
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by Phemie View Post
I'm looking at this another way. Can't the DOD require that anyone dealing with children anywhere on a military base undergo rigorous investigation to ensure the children's safety? That would include adults who teach religious ed, regardless of religion, wouldn't it?
Also looking at it another way, were all religious services stopped, pending the checks?
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  #26  
Old Sep 20, '13, 1:20 pm
Phemie Phemie is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by janeway529 View Post
Also looking at it another way, were all religious services stopped, pending the checks?
They didn't stop religious services, they said children couldn't be altar servers.

You don't need altar servers to have Mass (we often don't) and if the priest really wants someone to be an altar server it can be an adult (that's what happens when we don't have kids available). Unless the Protestants can still have Sunday School I can't get upset over something designed to keep kids safe.
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  #27  
Old Sep 20, '13, 1:49 pm
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Orogeny Orogeny is online now
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

Doesn't the DOD already have your medical and dental records?

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  #28  
Old Sep 24, '13, 8:30 pm
NeCo99 NeCo99 is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

Hopefully, I can shed some light on some of this...

No the DOD doesn't have all that (medical records), especially if you are a civilian who attends a military church (we have tons of those at my current and last bases). For example, a former servicemember retires at the duty station area, attends services at the on base church but may be married to someone who had no connection to the military so they don't have records like that.

Also, to clarify, I just moved from one base and am at another now. So I have gotten emails from my last and current post about this. It's not just the Catholics, it's EVERYONE that has been put on hold. This actually started a bit earlier this year at some places. As a volunteer, I was given new paperwork in January but was about to move, so I didn't bother to fill them out.

What they are doing is trying to make sure that ANYONE who comes into contact with children is vetted. This means, childcare during services, AWANA (Protestant group), CCD, ushering, altar serving, children's choir, even vacation bible school and after school programs. Because it has been a massive undertaking, everything is backed up and on hold.

From what I understand, the DOD does have the authority to do just what they are doing. When on a military base you are basically saying, you will follow certain rules. That's why for example, the chapels on military bases often have different rules on how things are conducted (also why the Military has its own Archdiocese). The DOD could be sued if something goes wrong in a volunteer capacity, so they are very much in the right for covering themselves by doing everything they can to make sure they are doing correct background checks. I have personally seen some checks that were either not done at all or partially done because of the rush to have someone in place. Not safe at all.

As for the dental records, I am only guessing that it could be to check for possible addiction issues. I have worked in the courts and often people who are shopping for meds, will get certain meds from their dentist, another from their primary doctor, etc. None of these providers would necessarily pull the records from one another, so it would be up to the patient to say they are already on a narcotic or something similar.

Again this is all just from what I have been receiving from the various bases I have been connected to in the past years.
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  #29  
Old Sep 25, '13, 8:43 am
JanetF JanetF is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

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Originally Posted by agnes therese View Post
Given the medical history of the Washington Naval Yard suspect, I can see that.

But dental? I don't get that. If anyone sees an explanation, I hope they'll post it.
Mdical history because mental health is included in that broad term, and dental for identification purposes if something horrific were to happen where they needed dental records to identify someone.
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  #30  
Old Sep 25, '13, 11:01 am
MarjannaS MarjannaS is offline
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Default Re: Religious Ed suspended on military bases

This whole situation has me horrified!
First of all, our Constitution FORBIDS government, whether supervisor, bureaucrat, even Congress or the President himself, of passing any rule, law, order, which interferes with the exercise of religion, and prohibits same from imposing religion on any person. Why do so many of you seem to believe that some wispy 'safety' thought should supercede that item of our Bill of Rights.
Why also, do you think that our Military is exempted from that freedom? These are the Americans who have been CHARGED to defend that selfsame freedom for all of us, and yet, we seem pretty ready to throw them under the bus and take away that liberty from them? Hey, let's get this straight!
IF the religious authority which controls the military chaplaincy issues orders protecting its children, ministers, and members, that's fully within its province. IF the MILITARY authority tries to order anything for the faith groups (catholic or protestant or Jewish or any other) in the military, it's out of line!
Our diocese has strict guidelines and checks for any persons who work in any way, with children, to protect them from those who would victimize them. I have no problem with that, and will defend their guidelines fully, no matter how much they pinch in the practice. But, I will certainly NOT ALLOW the State, whether municipal, state, federal or military, from interfering in the freedom of my faith (nor any other).
With all the 'liberal' talk of "lines in the sand", I would think this one to be more of a line in the stone! It is not negotiable. Unless, of course, we're ready to chuck the whole constitution and liberty we enjoy as Americans in the first place.
God did not create us to be slaves to one another, nor to any governments. He wants our voluntary servitude ONLY to Himself. The government is not God.
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