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  #1  
Old Mar 2, '06, 7:09 pm
russdirks russdirks is offline
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Default Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

I'm just learning about Catholic liturgy, and there is one prayer from the Rosary I don't understand.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The first sentence is easy enough to understand, but the second sentence gives me a bit of trouble. It doesn't even seem like a complete sentence. What does the "it" refer to? The world? Why is the world referred to as never ending? Are they actually referring to the Kingdom of Heaven? I just don't get that sentence.

Maybe somebody can help me out here.

Thanks,
Russ
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  #2  
Old Mar 2, '06, 7:15 pm
porthos11 porthos11 is offline
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Default Re: Need Rosary prayer explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by russdirks
I'm just learning about Catholic liturgy, and there is one prayer from the Rosary I don't understand.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The first sentence is easy enough to understand, but the second sentence gives me a bit of trouble. It doesn't even seem like a complete sentence. What does the "it" refer to? The world? Why is the world referred to as never ending? Are they actually referring to the Kingdom of Heaven? I just don't get that sentence.

Maybe somebody can help me out here.

Thanks,
Russ
It, meaning the glory of God, which has been with God from the beginning of time, and beyond time.

"world without end" is a literary form, and a literal translation of "saecula secolorum" or "unto ages of ages". The modern translation of "saecula saecolorum" is simply "forever and ever" or "forever" but "world without end" has stuck in the traditional devotions.
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  #3  
Old Mar 2, '06, 7:24 pm
MusicMan MusicMan is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Indeed, for the praying of the Liturgy of the Hours, the translation of saecula secolorum during this doxology is, "forever and ever."
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  #4  
Old Mar 2, '06, 10:02 pm
russdirks russdirks is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Thanks. It makes sense now.
Russ
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  #5  
Old Mar 2, '06, 10:34 pm
Fidei Defensor Fidei Defensor is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Thank Henry VIII for inserting that awkward "world without end" translation for "in saecula saculorum"
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Judica me, Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta.
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  #6  
Old Mar 3, '06, 8:56 am
Andreas Hofer Andreas Hofer is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor
Thank Henry VIII for inserting that awkward "world without end" translation for "in saecula saculorum"
Judging from the name, he must have done that AFTER he got married to the widow next door...
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  #7  
Old Mar 3, '06, 10:25 am
hilde the dog hilde the dog is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Fidei

Is that why the Magnificat does not print the "world without end" part? that has always confused me
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  #8  
Old Mar 3, '06, 12:30 pm
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

This prayer is basically an extended doxology, such as you will hear after the Our Father. "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory is yours, now and forever."

There is also an interesting twist to your question that I hadn't been aware of. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia
Quote:
The explanation that sicut erat in principio was meant as a denial of Arianism leads to a question whose answer is less obvious than it seems. To what do the words refer? Everyone now understands gloria as the subject of erat: "As it [the glory] was in the beginning", etc. It seems, however, that originally they were meant to refer to Filius, and that the meaning of the second part, in the West at any rate, was: "As He [the Son] was in the beginning, so is He now and so shall He be for ever." The in principio, then, is a clear allusion to the first words of the Fourth Gospel ["In the beginning was the Word"], and so the sentence is obviously directed against Arianism. There are medieval German versions in the form: "Als er war im Anfang".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor
Thank Henry VIII for inserting that awkward "world without end" translation for "in saecula saculorum"
If you have a cite for this, I'd like to see it - it would be interesting to read more about the chronology of these translations. My guess would have been that this translation took place after Henry, who by the way is your namesake - named fidei defensor by the pope.
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  #9  
Old Mar 3, '06, 12:35 pm
scriabin scriabin is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

I have a friend who thinks the world will never end because of his misinterpretation of "world without end."
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  #10  
Old Mar 3, '06, 10:42 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Hofer
Judging from the name, he must have done that AFTER he got married to the widow next door...
having been married seven ... times before.

Alan
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  #11  
Old Mar 3, '06, 11:31 pm
LeahInancsi LeahInancsi is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

It is a very beautiful prayer and sooo much in only a few words.
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  #12  
Old Mar 4, '06, 7:00 am
asteroid asteroid is offline
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Default Re: Question about "Glory be to the Father ..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor
Thank Henry VIII for inserting that awkward "world without end" translation for "in saecula saculorum"
Thanks Henry for confusing me so much over the years with this "world without end" prayer that didn't seem to fit into the teaching of any church I've been part of.

Give me a Willie or a Sam anyday.
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