The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe: Chapter 4

Scout · #1 Nov 15, '05, 2:06 pm

In Chapter 4 of The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe, we see more of the White Witch.

Do you think Edmund's greed for Turkish Delight was simply because the dessert was enchanted, or do you think greed and selfishness could've already been a part of his character and the Witch used this to her advantage? If you think it was part of his character, how do you think he got to be that way?

Scout

Barbara Ann · #2 Nov 16, '05, 6:01 am

I noticed that much is made of the fact that the Children are "Sons and Daughters of Eve" therefore human. Greed and addiction are very much part of the human weaknesses, therefore part of everyone's character. Of course this was enchanted candy also. We must also remember that this is Wartime. Even in the U.S. sugar was rationed. I believe it was rationed even more so in England. Therefore Turkish Delight was rare if not actually forbidden.

David Zampino · #3 Nov 16, '05, 6:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout

In Chapter 4 of The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe, we see more of the White Witch.

Do you think Edmund's greed for Turkish Delight was simply because the dessert was enchanted, or do you think greed and selfishness could've already been a part of his character and the Witch used this to her advantage? If you think it was part of his character, how do you think he got to be that way?

Scout

I do expect that greed was part of his character. It was the particular flaw that the Witch used to ensnare Edmund. Place any of us in the story in the place of Edmund, and we would probably find ourselves being tempted with our own particular flaw!

Hmmn, enchanted Big Macs?

Lanasshoebox · #4 Nov 16, '05, 9:28 am

Edmund saw the meanness, the cruel way she looked, feared her taking him away, and never getting back. He also was totally un-nerved by the beauty...enough to not run and hide right away. I would want to meet someone on my own terms if possible. Yes her sleigh, reindeer, bells, elf and deliver-er of goodies persona...she well knew he would respond to. She is over confident, waltzes in demanding he know her, and question him....She is determining rank and superiority here, then moves in with the immage, and hopes to create a comfort as she meets his wildest dreams in that moment. It was unusual for a single piece be known to them at this time and place in his life, let alone a whole box. Any drug will call to you if you consume enough. The drug does and will have a calling effect with a selfish nature here. Disreguard for his siblings will be next i am sure!

Lanasshoebox · #5 Nov 16, '05, 10:04 am

My children have found her to be a tricky one...she is kind and pretty, and has a Christmas looking sleigh...i have never heard the word sledge before...except for sledgehammer. Even my own children looked at the picture wondering if it had a bag of goodies in it like Santa would.

She knows all, just like satan does...and twists it and leads us astray. If i were face to face with him, i could turn away,but to evil itself, it is harder when you can not put a face on it.

LuzEstrella · #6 Nov 16, '05, 11:31 am

I think that the White Witch is like any other manipulative being. She was at first somewhat dismissive of Edmund and upon discovering that he could be valuable to her, she looked to exploit the flaws in his character. If the sweetness did not work, Im sure she would have attempted to threaten him. She used threats with Mr. Tumnus to keep him in line and it was how she kept him and others in line. Edmund was just easier to manipulate with the little enchanted gifts and lies she offered to him. He is still a young boy and maybe he does not get the respect and freedom of the older kids or get the benefit of being the youngest, like Lucy. So his place in the family may be negatively affecting his character.

Elizabeth2 · #7 Nov 19, '05, 4:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanasshoebox

[font=Verdana]My children have found her to be a tricky one...she is kind and pretty, and has a Christmas looking sleigh...i have never heard the word sledge before...except for sledgehammer.

That's a word used in England for a sleigh, the sort that children use to pull things or slide down slopes on. To his credit Edmund feels bad about his friendship with the witch when he talks to Lucy. Isn't this typical of temptation: the confused emotions caused by the opposing pull of good and evil, the failure to confront what's happening, the bad feeling, the rationalization and the strong pull of temptation that appeals to the appetites. Lewis knows his stuff alright.

ncjohn · #8 Nov 21, '05, 12:47 pm

I've heard it said that the only way evil can succeed is to look like good. The devil will always try to appear as an angel in temptation, and often will use something that seems good to lead us into evil.

As noted, he already starts to notice in talking with Lucy that something isn't quite right, but fighting evil is tough work.

Fitz · #9 Nov 22, '05, 2:14 pm

"Do you think Edmund's greed for Turkish Delight was simply because the dessert was enchanted, or do you think greed and selfishness could've already been a part of his character and the Witch used this to her advantage?"

I think that Edmund does have some issues like a person that has an addictive personality. How does he get this way? Perhaps it is exposure to stress at a certain time in life without proper training or teaching- like the learning right from wrong.

The Witch did use him and I think Edmund is learning about trust.

Quaere Verum · #10 Nov 25, '05, 6:45 pm

I posted this in the Ch. 3 thread. Oops!

The saying, "choose your poison", applies here as it does for all of us. The White Witch did not know Edmunds weakness, but she knew that he would reveal it to her. She asked him to select, & he did. And once he opened himself up she had something with which to lure him later.

LSK · #11 Dec 1, '05, 2:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout

In Chapter 4 of The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe, we see more of the White Witch.

Do you think Edmund's greed for Turkish Delight was simply because the dessert was enchanted, or do you think greed and selfishness could've already been a part of his character and the Witch used this to her advantage? If you think it was part of his character, how do you think he got to be that way?

Scout

I immediately saw it from the point of view of an addict/alcoholic. Selfishness, self-centeredness! That we think is the crux of the problem (paraphrasing from the Big Book of AA). My personal belief is that, since the fall of man, we all have to deal with this aspect of free will - selfishness and greed. Edmund is no different. Add into the mix an 'enchanted' dessert and you have an additional problem, an addiction. So of course, it was a part of his character but he could have refused the dessert just as Eve and Adam could have refused the Apple. And how did he get that way? He was born that way. He was born a human being.

Peterdiago · #12 Nov 13, '06, 3:53 pm

Note that Edmund is thought of by his siblings as being untrustworthy, a liar, unreliable etc. etc. Regardless of the truth of this, this bears consideration.

A beautiful woman comes to him, with all the trappings of power and authority, and is kind to him. Consider that for a moment - she speaks kind words to him in a land where he has to eat humble pie because he has derided his sister, in a land where he is cold and alone and very frightened.

Would he have responded to Aslan with much the same style? Yes, probably - but he would not have learned anything.

Aslan allows Edmund to be tempted - because he knows that only through seeing the evil his own weaknesses cause can he be fully redeemed. Would Lucy have trusted the Witch? Very probably - because Lucy is kind and trusting. Note that she is taken in by the Faun, Tumnus . . .

Edmund's weakness is really the fault of those who did not show him love and compassion; it is a vicious circle of being a brat, not getting love, and then being more of a brat.