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  #31  
Old Nov 15, '06, 6:49 am
Maxply Maxply is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

People are just used to be entertained in our culture. Read Neil Postman's books on television, for a good reference here.

My own changes in thinking toward religion came when I was taking long drives on a regular basis, and I realized I couldn't find anything worth listening to, anything entertaining on the radio. And that just as television was increasingly unsatisfying, radio programming was. . . except for the protestant radio ministers. That was about the only serious stuff on the radio.

But think, too, how many teachers complain that they have a hard time finding students who expect to WORK at their studies; they just want fun lectures, etc.

The important thing about mass is that it's participatory. The priest is working on behalf of the congregation.
  #32  
Old Nov 15, '06, 7:23 am
Verita Verita is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Ironically enough, when I first started attending Mass with my husband after we were married, I found Mass to be significantly more entertaining than my non-denom protestant church. Everything about it was fascinating (although at first it was fascinating in a disturbing way). I will always remember the saturday when looking around St. Ambrose Church I (still firmly entrenched in my protestant beliefs) suddenly realized "Hey! This is just like the Old Testament!" That I would say was the beginning of my conversion.

I still find Mass entertaining in a fascinating, enlightening, vivid, constant learning experience sort of way.
  #33  
Old Nov 15, '06, 7:59 am
ALLFORHIM ALLFORHIM is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyWarren View Post
AllForHim, I am only speaking from my own experience as a Protestant(and I refer to those that generally produce the anti-catholic automatons which would exclude Lutherans, Methodist, Episcopals, and Anglicans ) and from the experience of those protestants i was associated with during my protestant days.

Being entertained is critical to most of these. If the service loses it's emotionalism and charisma people leave for something better.

If the Pastor becomes boring during his way too long sermon, people will leave for something better.

People have forgotten the primary and core reason for coming together in His Name.

A Catholic should never feel a Mass is stagnant and boring. And they should never feel the CC is stagnant and boring.
Yes I will agree with this. My minister actually just gave a seromn on this exact thing. He was talking about church hopping. The service is soley to worship God not please ourselves.
  #34  
Old Nov 15, '06, 8:42 am
JoeyWarren JoeyWarren is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Mrs Abbot, concerning the confession discussed earlier. I reccommend finding a good confession priest outside of your parish ( a Fr. Larry Richards type ) and do a face to face confession. AND LET IT ALL OUT. Hold nothing back. A good confession priest is also a good counselor as well.

I personally do a monthly LET IT ALL OUT confession and utilize a Priest in a different Parish.
  #35  
Old Nov 15, '06, 2:49 pm
inJESUS inJESUS is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs_abbott View Post
I honestly don't know why. Maybe it's because I've been away from the Church for so long that I'm not sure how to come back and be a "happy" Catholic.
I know that the Catholic Church has things that no other church has. I'm not really wanting to go "join up" with another church. I'm just trying to be somewhat glad or happy to be a Catholic.
i know the solution Confession + Eucharist
  #36  
Old Nov 15, '06, 3:14 pm
Cardinalsong Cardinalsong is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Quote:
Are we stuping to the Protestant Need of being Entertained?
The good news here is that my 14 year old daughter wants to convert to the Catholic Church (as well as I--but that's another story).

We attend a non-denominational "mega-church". They have been great & actually was the step needed to take towards coming home to the Church

Anyway, as nice as the church we attend is, she doesn't understand why they need to play rock music, serve coffee, etc. It looks like a big convention center or concert hall. Not even a steeple with a cross & nothing within the sanctuary that would make you think it was a church

She would like a place more reverent as well as sacred. "Nothing is sacred anymore" she says. I agree with her
  #37  
Old Nov 15, '06, 6:21 pm
bella5110 bella5110 is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Umm, can someone explain to me what a cradle Catholic is?? I've heard of a "cafeteria" Catholic, one who picks and chooses what one wants to do. Is this the same thing?
  #38  
Old Nov 15, '06, 6:47 pm
kellie kellie is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

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Originally Posted by bella5110 View Post
Umm, can someone explain to me what a cradle Catholic is?? I've heard of a "cafeteria" Catholic, one who picks and chooses what one wants to do. Is this the same thing?
Baptised Catholic at birth and bought up Catholic
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  #39  
Old Nov 15, '06, 7:01 pm
bella5110 bella5110 is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellie View Post
Baptised Catholic at birth and bought up Catholic
Ya, I was Baptised and brought up Catholic, but I call myself "Devout". Cradle Catholic is something missing?
  #40  
Old Nov 15, '06, 7:05 pm
Al Masetti Al Masetti is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

There are a lot of "dynamics" going on during Mass.

For example, if the church building is large, then the priest has to learn to make his various movements slowly and to speak slowly. Otherwise, if he moves normally, for example, then his appearance will seem "jerky". [One of my priest-friends got transferred to St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC; his description of how he had to change his "style" of saying Mass was very enlightening.] However, if the priest moves slowly and speaks slowly, then the Mass will seem to stretch out. Some parish churches are quite large. Ours, for example, seats more than 1000 people.

If someone wants to go to and experience a Mass that is very moving, then I would suggest an ordinary week-day Mass at a smallish church or at a chapel. Sometimes even large churches have chapels attached where 50 people can be comfortably seated. Under those circumstances the entire congregation is very close to the altar and can see and experience at close hand what is being done and said.

The homily is usually short, but very direct and it seems that the priest is talking directly to each member of the congregation.

So, try a daily Mass and note your emotional response to it compared with your emotional response to the Sunday Mass in a large church building.

There is absolutely no difference in the degree of grace or of the Sacrament ... large church versus small chapel. But sometimes there is a different "feeling".
  #41  
Old Nov 15, '06, 8:45 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

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Originally Posted by bella5110 View Post
Ya, I was Baptised and brought up Catholic, but I call myself "Devout". Cradle Catholic is something missing?
Converts can also be devout - it's important for all Catholics to be devout.

A cradle Catholic is simply someone who was born into the faith, rather than coming into it as an adult - ie: not a convert.
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  #42  
Old Nov 16, '06, 12:22 am
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

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Originally Posted by jmcrae View Post
Converts can also be devout - it's important for all Catholics to be devout.

A cradle Catholic is simply someone who was born into the faith, rather than coming into it as an adult - ie: not a convert.
Whether one is or is not devout has nothing to do with when he or she was baptized. I was baptized as an infant, went to Catholic CCD, Catholic high school and Catholic college. None of this did any good for me. When I was in my twenties, living on my own, I fell away and didn't practice any religion. I rediscovered my faith after a friend took me to a Christian music festival and a Baptist at the festival gave me a Bible which I read all the way through. I was searching for meaning in my life but had no way of knowing what or Whom I was looking for. After I read the Bible (Protestant KJV with only 66 books), I realized that the Catholic Church was right. I repented first directly to God, then to my priest in Confession (I had been away about 5 years). Since then, I have joined an adult Sunday school class at my parish (which is Catholic Bible study--we are currently studying the book of Romans), volunteered for an ecumenical mission meal for the poor that is held at a Methodist Church, and become an EMHC. I thought the Church was stagnant and boring when I left, but the Holy Spirit knew otherwise, and He brought me back. Since I have become involved in my faith and in my parish, there's nothing stagnant and boring. The Catholic Church, the Bible, and my parish are all very much alive!
  #43  
Old Nov 16, '06, 2:19 am
kellie kellie is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bella5110 View Post
Ya, I was Baptised and brought up Catholic, but I call myself "Devout". Cradle Catholic is something missing?
There's nothing missing from a cradle Catholic

Some Catholics are devout, some aren't, and whether they are cradles or converts makes no difference to their devoutness (is that a word )
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  #44  
Old Nov 16, '06, 9:17 am
Al Masetti Al Masetti is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Sometimes, the expression "cradle Catholic" is used in a prejorative way. It could be taken to mean that the person was baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant, but then [here's the prejorative part] never learned much of anything about the Catholic religion.

OR, the person might have received some minimal level of education in the Catholic religion up through Confirmation and then nothing after that.

I'm just speculating. But that is one way the expression "cradle Catholic" can be used.
  #45  
Old Nov 18, '06, 4:56 am
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: Stagnant and Boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyM View Post
Yup, a sincere fear of hell is good enough it's called imperfect contrition, which is fine for a sacramental confession.
## To spell things out a bit:

There is
  • 1. Perfect contrition = sorrow for sin arising from the thought of the goodness of God, leading to: hatred of all our sins, a firm purpose of amendment,
  • 2. Imperfect contrition (AKA attrition); = sorrow for sin from lower motives, such as the fear of Hell)
There is also:
  • 3. Supremely appreciative perfect contrition - which is a degree of 1. which is not just real, but very intense as well. It must on no account be mistaken for 1. To do so, leads people who are truly contrite but do not feel anything, to fear they are not contrite; which can cause great anguish & scrupulosity
Contrition is in the understanding & the will; not in the emotions. Sorrow for sin must be real - but need not be strongly felt; because not every one has strong emotions. We do, OTOH, have to direct our wills & understandings in the way that pleases God - which includes a rejection of sin. And it is His grace that directs them as they should go; we do not have to try the impossible, & be contrite "on our own".

"Perfect" means, not morally perfect, but, perfect in the sense of not lacking any quality necessary for a thing to be that thing. The Church is in this sense a "perfect" society - it does not lack anything necessary for it to exist as an autonomous society; unlike a religious order, a diocese, or the family - all of which are societies within larger societies on which they depend for their existence. A "friendly society", a trade association, a trade union, are other imperfect societies.

So attrition is imperfect contrition, because it lacks something perfect contrition does have: the purity of motive which makes sorrow for sin the kind of sorrow it ought to be; for if we truly love God, we will think not of the bother that sin causes us, but of the unkindness it is to God: we will take God's side against ourselves. Imperfect contrition - sufficient for the remission of sin though it is - could be purer in motive than it is; instead of being weakened by concern for self.

So it is entirely possible to have perfect contrition; there is no reason to think that only very holy people can be contrite; it is not the same thing in degree as supremely appreciative perfect contrition, but is the same in kind.

There is also:
  • 4. A sorrow for sins arising from purely selfish motives, such as does not include the intention to turn from sin and to God. Sorrow of this sort is not sufficient for remission of sins; because it does not exclude the desire to sin again - so any absolution, would be ineffective until we received grace to be contrite, however feebly. This is known as the "revival" of absolution - it is (as it were) dormant, if contrition (and so, some degree of intention to turn from sin for God's sake) is lacking ##
Quote:
Have you tried, though, to read up on whatever sinful behaviour you may be not feeling particularly repentant of and try to see it (kinda) from God's point of view - think about WHY it might be wrong and offensive to God?

Doing little mental exercises like that helps me a lot with trying to avoid particular sins after I've confessed them.

Last edited by Gottle of Geer; Nov 18, '06 at 5:09 am.
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