Why don't people believe Catholics are intelligent enough to understand our beliefs?

[bkisia]

I agree with Cat in a way. Although it is true that the Catholic Christianity accepts both Scripture and Holy Tradition as the source of truth, especially in regard to our salvation. We need to give the Scripture part of the this source of truth its rightful place. It is important for Catholic Christians to realise that the Holy Scripture is the ONLY inspired word of God and we need to read frequently (daily in fact) because it is God's gift to mankind and his Church.

Although the bible became more widely available after printing came about, people were still able to read it wherever it was. As politely as I can, I would ask my kith and kin - my Catholic Christian brothers and sisters - not to give excuses for not knowing God's word yet their church is the custodian of the same.

I think it is true that many Catholics do not know why they believe what they believe. It is now becoming common for various public figures to use the 'Immaculate Conception' in reference to the incarnation of Jesus Christ. Catholics don't seem to know that the two have no relationship to each other. There are many other examples of this 'ignorance'. Although our faith is based on our Church's traditions, the bible is an important part of that tradition, a very important part in fact and needs to be read.

Catholic Christianity is a great gift from God and it is amazing that we generally take this foregranted. Catholic Christianity is rich in her history and we also take this foregranted. The bible is a part of this history and tradition. Reading and understanding the bible makes the understanding of our Catholic Christian faith; it makes us realise how small we are and how good God is.

If you don't read the bible, even with the Church's traditions at your finger tips, you will not have all the appropriate weapons to gain your salvation. You may get saved, but the journey will have taken much longer and will be tougher.

Please note, the Church says that both Tradition and Scripture, and not just Tradition. When we take the point that Tradition is the only relevant source, then there is no difference between us and those who left the Catholic Church with Bishop Lefebevre in 1988. Both are important.

[Cat]

I didn't say anything in my post about reading the Bible. That would be great and the Catechism teaches that it is important for Catholics to read the Bible and meditate on it.

I just said "Memorize the books of the Bible."

So it's all for show, not really very important.

Do it anyway. If you can memorize the Nicene Creed and all the other prayers and responses that Catholics use, you can memorize the Books of the Bible in order! It's easy, easy!

(Note: Since becoming Catholic, I am working on memorizing as many prayers as I can. I love them! I especially love the Divine Praises and the Te Deum. I am currently working on the Memorare, and also the St. Gertrude prayer for the Poor Souls, and also the Veni Creator. I hope to eventually memorize all the prayers in my two little prayer books. They are very comforting and come to my mind throughout the day.)

And if it will help negate the accusation of ignorance, then why not do it? It's such an easy way to impress people with your knowledge. YES, it's just a show! Yes, it means nothing! But it means everything--remember I was a Protestant for over 40 years--to Protestants, especially evangelical and fundamental Protestants. If you don't know the Books of the Bible, they won't care what you know about what's IN the Books. They will assume that you never read the Bible and that you are just spouting off Catholic propaganda. Am I right, here? Haven't you been accused of this yet?

You would give alms to the poor, wouldn't you? You would willingly serve in a soup kitchen, or help usher, or even go to a short term mission project to help build an orphanage or a school. Then do this simple thing and offer it for those who would criticize the intellect of the Catholics. Help them to trust you. Give them a bone. It's not asking that much!

[dream wanderer]

If I could memorize the books of the Bible..anyone can. Divide them up in the books of Moses, the historical books, the Poetical Books and the Prophets...Gospels...epistles etc and learn them by sections if you like. There are various ways it can be done..

Its not all that hard and yes..it could come in handy.

dream wanderer

[mercygate]

Originally Posted by Cat

If you can memorize the Nicene Creed and all the other prayers and responses that Catholics use, you can memorize the Books of the Bible in order! It's easy, easy!

Whew! What a relief, Cat! I thought you meant, "memorize whole books of the Bible" as in:

EZEKIEL: Chapter 1. "In the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the exiles by the river Chebar, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. On the fifth day of the month (it was the fifth year of the exile of King Jehoi'achin), the word of the LORD came to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chalde'ans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there. . . ."

Not that memorizing books of the Bible is a bad idea. I'm working on Psalms, myself.

As for ignorance and presumed ignorance, look at the following from another thread:

It [Latin] was used by the corrupt Church centuries ago to keep people from actually reading the bible, as these people didn’t understand Latin, and so it was a privelege (sic) only the clergy could hold. Eventually the people got mad about this because they were being deceived and the bible was translated.

* * *
The facts about the corrupt church and translating the bible came from my world history and geo book.

[Fiat]

MariaG:

Thanks for starting this thread. It raises a good question. It seems to me that the more you love something, the more you want to get to know it; the more you want to talk about it; the more you want to share it with others. When Protestants ask Catholics about their faith and Catholics aren't able to answer their questions, the Protestant assumes, either fairly or not, that this "Catholic" is someone who doesn't really love his faith, but is just going through the motions.

By God's awesome grace I was received into the Catholic Church a few years ago in spite of some radical disapproval from some of my Protestant friends and family. My father's chief complaint about Catholics was (and continues to be) that in all of his 61 years of life, not once had a Catholic ever invited him to mass; not once had a Catholic ever shared their Catholic faith with him; not once had a Catholic ever inquired about my father's soul.

We need more people like you, Maria. Those who are so in love with God, Jesus, Mary, the Church, etc., that we radiate that message to all those around us. It's disturbing to me that there aren't more Catholics on fire for their faith.

Fiat

[spauline]

Dear MariaG,

I will try to respond as charitably to your post as I can, but I am angered by it. Are you even supposing that most US Catholics are good Catholics who know their faith well and practice it?

I have seen statistics that show that Catholics in this country believe more or less in the same percentage brackets as the rest of the country on all the controversial moral issues that the Church condemns. Why is that? Well, any knowledgeable and faithful Catholic (who is RARE in this country) knows why. Specifically, following what was otherwise a good council, Vatican II, liberals infiltrated the Church with gross misunderstandings and misinterpretations of it, and took positions to teach their severely misguided ideas in the Catechesis and seminaries. Consequently, the Catholic Church in the West now has a good TWO GENERATIONS of priests and laity who have been taught nothing but the liberal, spineless, water-downed fluff of Modernism. This is what the priests were taught, and it is what the laity have been catechized in, and it is what the faithful get, in general, at Mass on Sunday. Hence, the vast majority of both the faithful and laity in the West are CLUELESS about the meaning of life and of their religion. The extent of their doctrine is simply nothing but gumby, happy-happy-gerbil, smiley facie principles of "peace and love" and "sharing and caring." And this is what they will be taught if they go to a Catholic elementary school, high school, or university. Therefore, sending your children to such places for education will only serve to destroy what little faith they have, unless you prepare them with ammunition and knowledge of TRUE Catholic doctrine. There is only a remnant minority of Catholic institutions in the country that teach the true Catholic faith, unadulterated by liberalism.

Now, I’m not saying that I can fully blame US Catholics for their ignorance because they have never been taught otherwise. However, it stands that the Church defines as dogma that a NORMAL adult person cannot live for an extended period of time before they begin to ask certain questions about the meaning of their existence. Therefore, even though the majority of Catholics in this country have been done a great disservice in their education, it doesn’t excuse them from earnestly searching for the meaning of life.
And, yet, as it stands, if some of them do come around and have a conversion, many times they will be angered by this disservice, that all their life as a Catholic, they were never warned about Hell or taught basic core doctrines that would lead them to a devout life. Consequently, they end up rebelling against the Church and joining some Fundamentalist Church that preaches a hard core message about conversion and salvation. I think the only thing that can bring them back is the grace of God to open their eyes and see that true Catholicism is not watered-down, mushy, liberal fluff, but that it is a deep and profound religion that can give them the fullness of the relationship that God wishes to have with them.



However, this problem is not so bad in other regions of the world. In Africa, the Church is growing tremendously, and it is right-on orthodox there. Also, in the former Communist nations of the East, the faith is also quite solid because the people have had to suffer, although the good faithful are a remnant there as here, for the communists all but eradicated the faith in many of these countries.



GB,

Scott

[losav]

Originally Posted by RobedWithLight

I agree.

While I don't intend to sound judgmental, here in the Philippines(83% Catholic), in one afternoon television program I saw, one contestant was asked what is the first book in the Bible. to my disappointment, she didn't know the answer. Two other contestants were likewise asked and none knew what the answer was, which was Genesis. We can reasonably assume they were Catholics, since Protestants to their credit, seriously study their bibles.

To be blunt, this isn't the first time I saw Catholics who didn't know what they supposedly believe. Perhaps these embarrassing instances are the result of poor catechesis.

Gerry

I was a Catholic Catechist in the Philippines... I would challenge any knowledgable catholics "Have we done anything?"

[BayCityRickL]

I think the direct answer to the original question is that these other "people" are simply prejudiced.

Attributing lack of intelligence to someone is called an ad hominem (at the person) attack. It's nothing new.

Catholics and protestants (to whom I think you are referring) (the lower case P is intentional, as there is so much difference between them) simply elect to differ as much as possible. I frequently observe to myself that the protestant reformation is constantly raging around us every day.

Every place that there is the slightest chance of driving a wedge between us is exploited.

But, every such attack is also an opportunity to stand up for the faith.

[MariaG]

Posted by spauline

I will try to respond as charitably to your post as I can, but I am angered by it. Are you even supposing that most US Catholics are good Catholics who know their faith well and practice it?

Angered by my post? I am truly at a loss here. I asked an honest question. Do you not believe that a Catholic Apologist knows and can accurately explain what the Catholic Church teaches?

I have been constantly running into people who say that they, who left the Catholic church or were never in it, understand Catholic teachings better than professional Catholic Apologists.This is what prompted the post. Why do those who are not Catholic think they know more than an educated and practicing Catholic?

And yes I do believe that most who are PRACTICING Catholics do know their faith well as opposed to those that IDENTIFY themselves as Catholic, practicing or otherwise. whether or not that is true, most of the Catholics HERE on this forum know what they are talking about. And I also acknowledged personal experience of people talking to those who have met Catholics who are clueless. But, there is a difference between a sincere but somewhat ignorant Catholic and a clueless Catholic.

The first is happy and content worshipping and praying to God with the knowledge they have. They are not plagued by endless questions or challenges to their faith. They simply accept it without question and do not seek what is in their opinion, unneccessary knowledge.

The second doesn't pray much if at all and the little that which they do know is wrong. This would be the clueless ones. Neither of which probably come HERE to this site. (Or if they do, they do not stay long.)

So I ask you what you have to be angry about my post that caused you to try to act charitably? The fact that you think the majority of US Catholics are clueless and I think the majority of Catholics that come to this Catholic Forum, professional apologists, and practicing Catholics (as opposed to cultural Catholics who identify themselves as Catholic) are not clueless

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

[spauline]

Originally Posted by MariaG

So I ask you what you have to be angry about my post that caused you to try to act charitably? The fact that you think the majority of US Catholics are clueless and I think the majority of Catholics that come to this Catholic Forum, professional apologists, and practicing Catholics (as opposed to cultural Catholics who identify themselves as Catholic) are not clueless

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

Dear MariaG,

I'm sorry, i think i misunderstood you. I thought you were implying that MOST US Catholics DO know their faith well and faithfully practice, when in reality you were only talking about good Catholics who are rare in this country. My apologies.

GB,
Scott