How do I defend Catholicism against Baptists?

[itsjustdave1988]

Here's a link that describes the "Trail of Blood" theory:
http://www.baptistpage.org/Distincti..._of_Blood.html

It's a theory that has been well refuted by even respected Baptist scholars. See The Baptist Heritage/Four Centuries of Baptist Witness by Leon McBeth, professor of Church History at Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary. See also A Sourcebook for Baptist Heritage by the same author. He has served as chairman of the Texas Baptist Historical Committee, as president of the Historical Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, and as president of the Southern Baptist Historical Society.

[itsjustdave1988]

DizzyDave,

... afraid to go head to head with the ones who do know their faith

My advice: think of it as a learning opportunity.

"A question from an adversary gives an occasion for learning."
-- St. Augustine (attributed)

Just get to know what they believe and understand how it contrasts with what you believe. It they have misunderstood what it is you really believe, explain it to them. If your not certain, then do some research. It is not your job to change their views. It's your job to share the truth, to share what it is that gives you hope to the best of your ability. Pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that we may all come to know the truth. You can't make someone agree with you. You can only share your viewpoint.

Good luck.

[jmm08]

Originally Posted by jmm08

The scriptural backing for my method of determination is John 7:15-20. The context of John 7:15-20 is set up in John 7:13-14. I'm paraphrasing: The correct way that leads to life is narrow. Those who find it are few. There are many false prophets. And how can I determine the right way if I am lost. If I am a lost sheep, how can I find the Good Shepherd?

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit."
"So by their fruits you will know them."

Correction. It is Matthew chapter 7. Not John chapter 7.

[mercygate]

Originally Posted by siamesecat

I think its sad anyone feels the need to defend their faith to people. Why cant you simply say this is what I believe, please respect this. This isnt about topping the Baptists with your Catholic beliefs. . . . . if a Baptist had a question about catholicism you could explain why you feel this is right but i would just say 'this is what i believe, please respect that, I try to have good morals' and hopefully they will say the same and back off.

You are SO right, Siamese. It ISN'T about topping the Baptists. But Scripture compels us to defend what we believe (I Pet 3:15). Unfortunately, many Baptists hold views of the Church that are outright mistaken, and they persist in "evangelizing" Catholics away from the true Church. The best apologetics is, indeed, simply explaining what we believe. But we sometimes need a little back-and-forth in order to clarify the question. This need not be in anger. Keep in mind, though, that truth, even when stated clearly and gently as you have proposed: "This is what I believe . . ." is occasionally so threatening to people that they become furious.

By the way, I'm crazy about good Baptists: there are top-drawer scholars among them, and people, like Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C., are outstanding pastors and teachers. Nevertheless, Truth is not merely a matter of "what I believe." What we believe is based on sound principles, and it is an act of charity to share our faith, especially with those who can be outright hostile to it.

[jmm08]

I watched Father Corapi on EWTN at 1 PM today.

And tonight was the first RCIA class -- hooray!!!

To me, a lot of times Father Corapi seems like a really good old fashioned Baptist. God bless him.

If some of my Baptist brethren would watch Father Corapi with an open mind, they would probably be shocked to hear such good gospel teaching coming from somebody who is disguised as a Roman Catholic Priest.

All you Roman Catholics -- are you sure Father Corapi is Roman Catholic and not really a Baptist?

God bless Father Corapi. He tells it like it is. Amen.

[FightingFat]

This is a great thread. I have a close friend who professes Baptist beliefs, though he's a stay at home Christian. He constantly attacks my faith with standard twaddle about Catholics re-writing history etc. I get upset, but always try and calmly state my position. I sent him the trial of Blood document at the beginning of this thread and this is the response I got:



an interesting article - I guess the baptists should do as the Catholic church has done - rewrite history with forged and re-written documents.
You may think I have been brainwashed or whatever, but If I have been indoctrinated at all, it was as a child by the Anglican Church and I object to that too !
My beliefs come from reading the Bible. I joined a Baptist Church for a few years because it felt right - because they spoke God's word and focused on Jesus.
Looking back now, it is very clear to me that the Baptist church taught me nothing of its history, it taught me nothing about other religions (catholicism, Islam, whatever) it just focused on the Bible.
My beliefs regarding idolatry and the Virgin Mary, about Communion (the Eucharist) and baptism were not taught to me by men or by a church, and I was not brainwashed or indoctrinated as you probably think. I read the bible and what I believe comes from that.
If you read the Bible it is all very clear.



I think I'm starting to get to him!

What do you think I should say?

[FightingFat]

Cooo- now he's sent me this

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles_new.htm

By a converted Catholic Priest!

Help!!!!!

[mlchance]

Originally Posted by dizzy_dave

My wifes family is Baptists, most don't go to church. They knock our church a lot, I'm afraid to go head to head with the ones who do know their faith, because even though I am a lifelong Catholic, I am just starting to take my faith seriously. I just don't know if I can defend Catholicism well enough yet? Can anyone help?

Don't bother with it. I'm somewhat fond of this response: "I didn't come over to visit so I'd have to justify my faith to you. I came over just to visit. Of course, that's probably hard to see from up there on your high horse. Why don't you come on down and be sociable?"

-- Mark L. Chance.

[mercygate]

Originally Posted by FightingFat

Cooo- now he's sent me this

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles_new.htm

By a converted Catholic Priest!

Help!!!!!

Dear FF,

You've got typical Fundamentalist thinking here -- but actually on a much higher level than usual. As usual, your friend has bombarded you with an avalanche of canned objections. If you take this on, you will give yourself a high level theological education. Note how the article on the Immaculate Conception avoids the Greek: kecharitomene . . . Anyway, these are all well-worn accusations.

In order for a Protestant of this stripe to begin to understand the development of theology, you might find it wise to begin with a discussion of Sola Scriptura: right from the reason that we believe Scripture to be inerrant. Karl Keating's Catholicism and Fundamentalism is an excellent place to start. Protestants nearly always gape in disbelief when you tell them that the doctrine of Scriptural inerrancy originated in the Catholic Church.

Take these questions one at a time. They all have GOOD Catholic answers. BTW, I am appalled that your friend construes Anglican teaching as "brainwashing." While it may no longer be true, up until 30 years ago, you could count on the Episcopal Church for pretty solid teaching on soteriology, on Apostolic Succession, and the basic doctrines of the creeds.

Do you think your friend actually READ the links he led you to?

[FightingFat]

We discuss religion almost daily. I don't think he reads the links, but I always try to, unfortunately for me (or perhaps fortunately) this leaves me with a heck of a lot of reading to do!

>>If you take this on, you will give yourself a high level theological education.

mercygate, I embrace this with all my heart for that exact reason. I am involved with a couple of discussions of this nature at the mo, one with a Mormon friend and this I find much easier. My Baptist friend has busy fingers and jumps from internet site to internet site. I have to read and absorb it before I can respond, but I know that he is touched by my honest faith and the way I live with God in my life. I feel a need to demonstrate that I also have an academic basis to my faith and through appologia I have indeed found my faith invigorated and my appetite for debate wetted. I often call to mind St. Edmund Campion and his 'Brag', especially this bit-

I would be loath to speak anything that might sound of any insolent brag or challenge, especially being now as a dead man to this world and willing to put my head under every man's foot, and to kiss the ground they tread upon. Yet I have such courage in avouching the majesty of Jesus my King, and such affiance in his gracious favour, and such assurance in my quarrel, and my evidence so impregnable, and because I know perfectly that no one Protestant, nor all the Protestants living, nor any sect of our adversaries (howsoever they face men down in pulpits, and overrule us in their kingdom of grammarians and unlearned ears) can maintain their doctrine in disputation. I am to sue most humbly and instantly for combat with all and every of them, and the most principal that may be found: protesting that in this trial the better furnished they come, the better welcome they shall be.

I wonder if Karl and co should make him the Patron Saint of this website???

[ahimsaman72]

Originally Posted by mercygate

You are SO right, Siamese. It ISN'T about topping the Baptists. But Scripture compels us to defend what we believe (I Pet 3:15). Unfortunately, many Baptists hold views of the Church that are outright mistaken, and they persist in "evangelizing" Catholics away from the true Church. The best apologetics is, indeed, simply explaining what we believe. But we sometimes need a little back-and-forth in order to clarify the question. This need not be in anger. Keep in mind, though, that truth, even when stated clearly and gently as you have proposed: "This is what I believe . . ." is occasionally so threatening to people that they become furious.

By the way, I'm crazy about good Baptists: there are top-drawer scholars among them, and people, like Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C., are outstanding pastors and teachers. Nevertheless, Truth is not merely a matter of "what I believe." What we believe is based on sound principles, and it is an act of charity to share our faith, especially with those who can be outright hostile to it.

As a cradle Southern Baptist I acknowledge some of my "brethren" have shamed the Lord and their faith and have caused great harm to their separated brethren. I admit that fact and hope that all who come here - baptists and catholics will remember to love one another as Christ commanded us to do.

I'm still a baptist and was going to start RCIA this fall, but admittedly was not ready to do so. I admit that in my dealings with other protestant denominations have acted unkindly and scandalously. I've not done so with catholics.

We must remember that though we disagree with main points in doctrine that we are not inherently enemies of each other. Both sides have acted unkindly and ruthlessly at times both in the past and in modern times.

I applaud Chuck Colson and others on their endeavors to bring together some semblance of respect for each others faith. I hope that all who have posted here will determine to do the same. Our enemy Satan has caused us to fight one another while he picks off whomever he wants. Let's pray for humility and understanding on both sides so that we may together banish Satan to the furthermost corner of the earth.

[ahimsaman72]

Originally Posted by Exporter

CAT, How do you defend your Catholic Faith against Baptists?

First, realise that this is not a new question. The Baptists from Dallas, Texas railed against John F. Kennedy's run for the presidency because he was R. Catholic. They were viscious! You cannot convince a rabbid Baptist by attacking his religion. Don't even try.

Such hostility, "rabbid Baptist", will only strengthen a "rabbid Baptist" to more hatred. Dispel hatred with love.

[edwinG]

Hi,

Dont try to defend your postion with words. As Jesus said, "let it be as you believe." Dont attack someone else's faith, and create anger. There is no need for more anger. Unless the Holy Spirit is speaking through you, you can not change anyone. Jesus could not change the Jews. Let your actions over the years be your witness. Let the Holy Spirit work through you.

Regarding works. If you could work your way to heaven, Jesus's ministry is without cause. If you say you have faith and sit on your butt, you may be mistaken. We dont have the wisdom to decide for another person, we don't know how much faith they have, as faith is a gift, we are all not going to end up as Kings in God's kingdom, so why do you want to assign the same degree of faith and works to everyone, where your degree sets the standard. The bible is a book of belief, not a book of mathematics which can be nailed to the wall.
Jesus will judge a person on criteria of which we have no knowledge, that is, how much they were given by Him in his life. The person given $10 dollars by Christ doesn't have to return the same as a person given $50 . Do you know how much every person has been given by Christ. Do you even know how much He has given you. What we should truly fear is judging some one.
Walk in love, submitting daily to the leading of the most beautiful Holy Spirit.
Beware of the words you speak. You will have to give account for every idle word. The word activates the spirit. Christ, The Eternal Word activates the Holy Spirit.We are made in God's image. Think of the impact your words have, do you send your spirit out in love or some other way. Be very careful how you speak.
Love edwinG

[blewskies]

May I recomend a few good books that have given me hope at defending my faith. "Nuts and bolts" by Tim Staples and "Where is that in the Bible" by Patrick Madrid. These books will give you the answers you need and where it is in the bible. Hope this helps