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  #16  
Old Nov 30, '07, 1:11 am
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

I hope people here realize this scandal is actually a very good thing. This is just the spark to get the Ecclesia Dei commission clarifying things and exposing the disobedient bishops. This is making news headlines and it cant just be brushed under the rug.

It is very clear this act of the bishop is going to backfire.
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  #17  
Old Nov 30, '07, 5:51 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi View Post
The biggest enemy for catholic actually is catholic itself.
Well, 'The worst enemy someone can have is someone from his own table'.

I hope appropriate action will be taken, but it seems that for many people:

Rome has spoken, which is one more reason to play ignorance.
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  #18  
Old Nov 30, '07, 8:08 am
Tomster Tomster is offline
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Thumbs up Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1919 View Post
A lot of people dislike the Tridentine Mass. They would like nothing more than for it to be banned outright. These people do all they can to convince others that the only people who attend this Mass are radical, nostalgic, schismatic wierdo's. They are wrong!

Why do they hate the Tridentine Mass?

They hate the Tridentine Mass because it stands for orthodoxy. It stands for tradition. It is a reminder of the pre "Spirit of Vatican II" days when dissenters were not given a platform to espouse their heretical views.

Liberals are worried that the return of the Tridentine Mass will undo all that they have "worked" for these past 40 years. For liberals, the Tridentine Mass represents the "dark days" before they were able to campaign for abortion, gay rights, and artificial birth control.

However, we have a great Pope who is doing his utmost to heal the Church. He recognises the equality of both Masses and has generously allowed both to be celebrated without hindrance.



Exactly. Dissident Bishops do not like that they no longer have power to forbid the Tridentine Mass. They can no longer supress it. Rome has spoken. Case closed.
Right on!
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  #19  
Old Nov 30, '07, 11:45 am
Ad Deum Ad Deum is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

I hope everything will be resolve quickly, but in accordance to the church law! Probabaly an excommunication for those who resist the Church.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo
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  #20  
Old Nov 30, '07, 12:02 pm
SemperFidelis SemperFidelis is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Here's an update to the story:

From rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

New Bishop for Savona-Noli

The Holy Father has also named today the new Bishop of Savona-Noli - the small diocese in Liguria, Italy, whose Diocesan Administrator has "forbidden" all Traditional Masses since Monday.

The new Bishop will be Monsignor Vittorio Lupi, up to now Vicar General in the Diocese of Ventimiglia-San Remo. May he be obedient to the letter and to the mens of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum...
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  #21  
Old Nov 30, '07, 2:14 pm
universalindult universalindult is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Quote:
The former bishop, Msgr. Domenico Calcagno Agno, was promoted in July by Pope Benedict XVI
The bishop's position was open since July, but only two days after the current diocesan administrator made this colossally stupid move, a new bishop is appointed. Read between the lines, folks.

God bless Pope Benedict XVI!!!
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  #22  
Old Dec 2, '07, 6:13 am
Semper Fi Semper Fi is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Quote:
Originally Posted by paramedicgirl View Post
I wonder when a bishop is going to forbid the NO Mass? I just mean, all things being equal...
The point of the Motu Proprio was that no Bishop can forbid a priest from saying any valid Roman Rite liturgy. The NO is valid, as is the TLM, like it or not.
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  #23  
Old Dec 2, '07, 7:00 am
m134e5 m134e5 is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude View Post
I hope people here realize this scandal is actually a very good thing. This is just the spark to get the Ecclesia Dei commission clarifying things and exposing the disobedient bishops. This is making news headlines and it cant just be brushed under the rug.

It is very clear this act of the bishop is going to backfire.
There is a distinction here that needs to be made...

This was not done by a bishop. The diocese in question does not have a bishop right now. This was done by a monsignor (a distinguished priest, named by a bishop for whatever reason) who is administrator of the vacant diocese. This is a distinction that needs to be made. Even a bishop cannot forbid the TLM- a priest who happens to be administrator because of the absence of a bishop has even less authority to do so.
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  #24  
Old Dec 2, '07, 8:43 pm
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

Quote:
Originally Posted by m134e5 View Post
There is a distinction here that needs to be made...

This was not done by a bishop. The diocese in question does not have a bishop right now. This was done by a monsignor (a distinguished priest, named by a bishop for whatever reason) who is administrator of the vacant diocese. This is a distinction that needs to be made. Even a bishop cannot forbid the TLM- a priest who happens to be administrator because of the absence of a bishop has even less authority to do so.
That is very interesting. So it wasnt even a bishop who said this.
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  #25  
Old Dec 2, '07, 8:46 pm
jj2011 jj2011 is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

A new bishop was just appointed, so all eyes are watching how he will handle this situation.
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  #26  
Old Dec 2, '07, 11:18 pm
Aramis Aramis is offline
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Default Re: "All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

If the bishop knows that none of the priests are trained in the TLM, he can and should bar them from mangling it.

The Requirement is that they be allowed to the TLM privately it they are trained in doing it.

At the moment, there is effectively a bar on the TLM in Anchorage not due to hostility, but due to a lack of trained priests willing to do so. (Almost none of the current non-retired priests in the archdiocese were priests before 1965... few even go back pre-1970... and the bishop is sending a few volunteers off to learn it.)

The MP requires priests to be trained in the TLM before saying it. (It seems to presume they are trained in the NO, a reasonable assumption given the average age at ordination is in the mid 20's, and it's been 35 years since it was normative.)

So, it is possible that all the serving priests were trained only to the NO, and shouldn't be saying the TLM without proper training.

Not saying it is the case, but it might be, and charity requires giving the benefit of the doubt until there is proof otherwise.
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