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  #136  
Old Jun 24, '07, 11:27 am
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crenfro crenfro is offline
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Post Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Hello!

Just read the Mr. Keating's letter about celebrityism.

My answers to handling those inflicted with celebrityism are to

1) focus on my own behavior as I am unable to change
another person unless they're willing to change, and

2) do what St. Francis suggested, which was to
"preach the Gospel at all times, and to sometimes even
use words," and to

3) turn the care of these blocked souls over to God's care,
since He's the only One who can write straight with
crooked lines.

Thank you for this topic. It made my Sunday much more meaningful.
  #137  
Old Jun 27, '07, 9:09 pm
donalddon5 donalddon5 is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Courtois--Before his Face....The Appeal to Silence.should answer any question as to watching television or listening to the radio.
  #138  
Old Jun 28, '07, 7:40 pm
Ampatamia Ampatamia is offline
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Unhappy Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernadette64 View Post
I have only prayers for Paris. Born into her ridiculous wealth is easy for us to make fun of since we're not in her position. She was raised to not think of things higher than herself. I can hardly fault her.

Not only does she need our prayers but so do those who are fascinated by the minutiae of her daily life. We shouldn't be looking down our noses with our ever-enlightened minds to mock others as they swim gladly in the cesspool of our society. We should be praying and fasting for them.

We also need to fast and pray for our own continuing conversion. We must decrease so that Christ may increase in us so that we may begin to see everyone as God's children -- especially those most in need and are easy to make fun of. For Who more than any of us wishes to see His children in His Kingdom?

Bernadette
I TOTALLY agree with Bernadette! I am guilty of being one of those people who is fascinated with the minutae of celebrity life. In February, I discovered how my faith in Jesus Christ and my celebrityism are not compatible.

I am a HUGE JOSH GROBAN fan, and I belong to his fan club website FOJG.com. In an interview this past winter, he endorsed a song by the alternative band Depeche Mode titled "Personal Jesus" I saw the video of the song on YouTube. The song mocked Jesus and those who followed Hm (i.e Christians) The song portrayed Christians basically as stupid prostitutes who follow anything that anybody tells them.

Since Josh Groban is a fan of Depeche Mode, he endorsed the song and commented that anyone who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is a religious fanatic. I hit the roof when I read that statement and I proceeded to challenge other fans who are Christians to NOT endorse this song even though Josh did.

Well, I was crucified by the other fans on this website, and recently I lost a friend on this website because of my continued frustration with Josh's words.

Since then, I have begun to pray fiercely for Josh Groban. But Bernadette's statement made me realize how I need prayers in order to let go of this "betrayal." I also need to fast for Josh Groban and for me, but I am very weak in this spiritual practice. I need a lot prayers and if anyone is willing, I would be VERY GRATEFUL if someone did this for me. If not, I am continuing to keep my eyes on Jesus, and I am trusting that He will work this out according to His Divine Will. Thanks for reading and listening to my tale of woe. May God bless you!

Ampatamia
  #139  
Old Jun 29, '07, 9:53 am
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Keating View Post
This is entirely wrong. In fact, it's heretical.

All living things have souls. The soul is the life-principle of a living thing. The souls of plants and animals are material principles, and that means those souls die when the plants and animals die.
I did know that - I was taught that human beings have spiritual souls, which is why they outlive the body when it dies (assuming the soul has not died previously, due to mortal sin - otherwise, only the spirit survives, but it can't go to Heaven).

Quote:
In contrast, the human soul is a spirit. Spirits are immortal and cannot die.
Doesn't the soul die when we commit mortal sin? (I thought that's what the "mortal" was, in mortal sin - the death of the soul.)

Quote:
(God and the angels are spirits too.)
I do know that. They (other than Jesus) don't have souls, though, because of the fact that they don't have bodies.
Quote:
I recommend you read Frank Sheed's "Theology and Sanity" and "Theology for Beginners." They will clear up the confusion.
Thanks, I'll do that. (I thought that's where I got my idea of the soul from ... I'll re-read it, though.)
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According to Quentin Tarentino, (Kill Bill Volume 2) Clark Kent is Superman's opinion of the human race. It occurs to me that, using the same logic, Jesus of Nazareth is God's.

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  #140  
Old Jun 29, '07, 11:08 am
hlombardi hlombardi is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

I am an 85 year old Cradle Catholic still active in my parish. This is my first attempt to reply to an E-mail
Essay of Karl Keating.
I read his comments about Celebrityism and it brings to mind a passage from one of the Psalms.
See how the wicked prowl on every side and the worthless are praised by the sons of man.
Times have not changed. We will have Paris Hilton and Anne Nichol and their ilk with us for a long time.
The soundest advice we can keep is "keep praying".
Hal Lombardi
  #141  
Old Jun 29, '07, 1:53 pm
Karl Keating Karl Keating is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcrae View Post
I did know that - I was taught that human beings have spiritual souls, which is why they outlive the body when it dies (assuming the soul has not died previously, due to mortal sin - otherwise, only the spirit survives, but it can't go to Heaven).
To repeat: Your soul is a spirit but is not distinct from your spirit. Your spiritual soul "dies" only in the sense that it loses sanctifying grace and therefore, in that condition, can't be in heaven. It doesn't "die" in the sense of ceasing to exist.



Quote:
Doesn't the soul die when we commit mortal sin? (I thought that's what the "mortal" was, in mortal sin - the death of the soul.)
Yes, but mortal sin "kills" a soul only in the sense above.
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Karl
  #142  
Old Jul 1, '07, 10:57 am
dcdurel dcdurel is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Karl wrote:
"What do you think should be done? How can we make headway with such folks? Is there something proactive we can do, or do we just have to hope they someday will tire of wallowing in celebrity worship and will turn toward real religion?"

I think this attitude of ignoring God for the trivial is why the Pope John XXIII called Vatican II. He saw that Europe was falling away from God and was acting as if God doesn't matter any more. Pope Paul VI continued on this theme with his brilliant encyclical "Evangelization in the Modern World", in which he explained how to start over with people who are no longer act Christian but who are modern and who think they have everything.
Popel John Paul II continued with "Redeemer of Man" and "Mission of the Redeemer", in which he gave reasons that modern man needs to turn to Jesus.
In these encyclicals the Popes explain the center and kernal of the Gospel message, which is liberation from everything that oppresses man, especially sin and the devil. They explain why people need this message. They explain how it is only through the Catholic Church that Jesus can can change individuals and thus society. They explain that the Catholic faith is the handing on of this Gospel message. They explain how the message starts off with the intitial proclamation, that Jesus came to free us from the slavery of sin, and they explain the remaining part of the message which is education in the Catholic faith. Pope John Paul II authorized the publication of
"The General Directory for Catechesis" which explains more and in better detail.

The fact is that God does move some people in the world to realize that there is more to life than following their whims and fancies. But, unless we learn the basics from the Popes who alone clearly explain why Jesus came, why He founded His Church, and why His Church is necessary, and then explain these basic principles to the people, then these people will never know the truth. They will go thru life wondering and lost, knowing there is something more, but not clearly knowing what it is. And society will continue to get worse and worse. The Church teaches that NO ONE can proclaim the Gospel to themselves. These people cannot teach themselves the truth. And being good examples is NOT enough. We must learn the truth from the Popes so we can communicate it with others. Learning the Catechism is not enough. Learning the Catholic faith is not enough, because we truly cannot understand the Catholic faith unless we learn the purpose of the faith from the Popes. We must first learn why Jesus became man from the Popes, we must learn what exactly the Popes mean by salvation, we must learn from the Popes exactly what they mean by the word Gospel. The whole focus of Popes John XXIII, Paul Paul VI and Pope John Paul II was explain how to bring Jesus back into the lives of individuals and thus change them and change society so that there can be some measure of happiness and sanity in this life and union with God now and in the next life.

I urge all those with time and who love the Church to study the encyclicals I mentioned and spread their teachings to others.
  #143  
Old Jul 1, '07, 7:25 pm
Lost&Found Lost&Found is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

We’re well-bred consumers – of products and ideas. “Whatever it is yer sellin’, I’m buyin’.” (I was just trying to find the Chesterton quote about once you get rid of God you fall for anything.) Anyhow I guess they perceive things to be going well if they have nothing more serious in their lives than to think about movie stars.
So the wholesaler/ Nat Enq. knows it’s all about shelf-space. Main thing is just to put yourself/product out there. Really pay off the retailer to get the check-out counter end-display. Then make all your money on the ads. I’m just sayin, if you stocked the end-display with a well-packaged (since we got no perceived problems, we’re superficial -so packaging is everything) with a well-packaged tabloid format Catholic brief scriptural passage/theological commentary/pastoral notes - brief and light/contemporary yet to the point – it’d sell fine. I’m wondering how many ads you’d get though. As Catholics we’ve got very little “shelf-space” out there. – Hollywood, newspapers (does Keating have a syndicated column), CNN anchor desk, NY Times editorial, grocery chain managers- where is the Catholic perspective in the media? (crickets cricking) I guess that’s why we just build our own “shelves”. Maybe just look at new ways of doing that. Then focus on teaching the faith and let the more ambitious Catholics take it from there. Yes I think we have a ways to go before reaching certain groups. Pope Benedict is right on starting with the catechetics.
__________________
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  #144  
Old Jul 1, '07, 8:31 pm
Nino Nino is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcdurel View Post
Karl wrote:
"What do you think should be done? How can we make headway with such folks? Is there something proactive we can do, or do we just have to hope they someday will tire of wallowing in celebrity worship and will turn toward real religion?"

I think this attitude of ignoring God for the trivial is why the Pope John XXIII called Vatican II. He saw that Europe was falling away from God and was acting as if God doesn't matter any more. Pope Paul VI continued on this theme with his brilliant encyclical "Evangelization in the Modern World", in which he explained how to start over with people who are no longer act Christian but who are modern and who think they have everything.
Popel John Paul II continued with "Redeemer of Man" and "Mission of the Redeemer", in which he gave reasons that modern man needs to turn to Jesus.
In these encyclicals the Popes explain the center and kernal of the Gospel message, which is liberation from everything that oppresses man, especially sin and the devil. They explain why people need this message. They explain how it is only through the Catholic Church that Jesus can can change individuals and thus society. They explain that the Catholic faith is the handing on of this Gospel message. They explain how the message starts off with the intitial proclamation, that Jesus came to free us from the slavery of sin, and they explain the remaining part of the message which is education in the Catholic faith. Pope John Paul II authorized the publication of
"The General Directory for Catechesis" which explains more and in better detail.

The fact is that God does move some people in the world to realize that there is more to life than following their whims and fancies. But, unless we learn the basics from the Popes who alone clearly explain why Jesus came, why He founded His Church, and why His Church is necessary, and then explain these basic principles to the people, then these people will never know the truth. They will go thru life wondering and lost, knowing there is something more, but not clearly knowing what it is. And society will continue to get worse and worse. The Church teaches that NO ONE can proclaim the Gospel to themselves. These people cannot teach themselves the truth. And being good examples is NOT enough. We must learn the truth from the Popes so we can communicate it with others. Learning the Catechism is not enough. Learning the Catholic faith is not enough, because we truly cannot understand the Catholic faith unless we learn the purpose of the faith from the Popes. We must first learn why Jesus became man from the Popes, we must learn what exactly the Popes mean by salvation, we must learn from the Popes exactly what they mean by the word Gospel. The whole focus of Popes John XXIII, Paul Paul VI and Pope John Paul II was explain how to bring Jesus back into the lives of individuals and thus change them and change society so that there can be some measure of happiness and sanity in this life and union with God now and in the next life.

I urge all those with time and who love the Church to study the encyclicals I mentioned and spread their teachings to others.
  #145  
Old Jul 1, '07, 8:42 pm
Nino Nino is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

I suggest reading "Guide for Living" the letters and addresses of his holiness PopePiusX11! Part One: The family..re: mother and chlld,bringing up children ,the dignity of woman etc..Part 2.War and Peace..A bond of brothers,why does God allow it,persecution,world government etc Part3: The technical age, space etc..Part 4 Letters for laymen..wealth and poverty,the worker,the state and the individual ,the valiant christian etc..Part 5,The great return,the servants of Christ..the 'new' morality..has Christianiy failed?..The greatest Pope of the20th century said it all..but evil forces at work pushed him into the background. By the time God called him to his reward,,Catholic churchs were fulled every sunday, vocations at an all time peak,conversions in America alone over 100,000 yearly,and each and every one of us knew what sin was and no ambiguous statements at all Acutally an atempt was made to accomodate the Church to the world..become more modern and all that happened is what we see. Jesus said to show by example what it means to be a Christ follower..this we must do..role models do more for the non-believer then the celebs we see shoved into our faces on the evening news......
  #146  
Old Jul 1, '07, 11:24 pm
Auntie A Auntie A is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Dear Fellow Catholics:
Please let's differentiate between: !.) talent and celebrity, 2.) the arts and crass popular culture, 3.) a skilled craft and buying your way to fame. Catholics, and others are sometimes so outraged by the garbage and immorality that we forget to study, appreciate and PATRONIZE good entertainment. And, as a result, we lose our power as consumers. Read Steve Allen's "Vulgarians at the Gate". We can change journalism by what we buy or watch.
If we spend too much time forbidding and condemning we are playing into the devil's hands because we are offering nothing to our children as alternatives. And I do not recommend more "Barney-vegie-animated-Bible story" video babysitters. As a kid I was insulted by that CLAPTRAP. I was lucky to be exposed to stories of real saints and martyrs (and the nuns did not "soften" the stories either), I read books about heroes, survivors, and inventors. I was told fairy tales and about soldiers, explorers and immigrants who escaped repressive countries. Movies were fun, innocent, uplifting.
Search, ask around, dig up the classics of music, dance, drama, comedy, literature, art, animation. When is the last time you watched Bugs Bunny with a kid? Or Frankenstein? Sleeping Beauty (go easy on the Disney stuff; find someone else's version.) Read Lamb's Tales by Shakespeare. Play Grieg's music and make up a story. Watch Danny Kaye. Sit at a piano. Go to a concert. Support good theater. If it isn't happening around you, then have playreadings in your home. If no one new is exhibiting any talent, drag out the old folks, old movies, old music, old dance. Or find the good new stuff.
Let's not resent the talented people in the arts and entertainment industries. Notice the real talent and raise the bar. And demand that we learn about the hard work, dedication, and sacrifice of artists rather than about the shortcuts, attention-getting and panty-waving publicity stunts of a few young unsupervised women and men who need our quiet prayers.
Please note I will not repeat those poor souls' names out loud. However, I must mention Kitty Carlisle to clear her name. She was a socialite and TV panelist because she was first, an opera singer; next, a movie star with the Marx Brothers (A Night at the Opera); later, the wife of Moss Hart, an American playwright who belonged to a large crowd of writers, performers, producers, and artists whom Kitty Carlisle then hosted in their home. She was overwhelmed and intimidated by these houseguests until she learned the humble art of asking questions, and it was then, she said, that her popularity began to grow. I had the good fortune of performing with her once and she was, at age 70, very courteous, gracious, ladylike, fun, and very talented. In short, she worked hard and her celebrity was earned, not bought.
I try to discern the good in all things. Even popular culture throws us a few now and then (and they are not all named Mel Gibson). Look around. Read. Reject the junk. Show children real art. Support better music in The Church. Praise the true and beautiful! Pray for good art. This will defeat the over-inflated worship of false idols.
  #147  
Old Jul 7, '07, 8:12 am
OriginalJS OriginalJS is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

I just read the June 12, 2007 letter. Karl, if you haven't done so, read Stephen R. Prothero's book on Religious Literacy that came out earlier this year. Your remarks about there being a lot of Catholics is correct, but many are Catholic in Name Only. In spite of years of CCD training their religious knowledge is abysmal if not nonexistent.

For many, celebritydom is what they live on because they don't have anything else.
  #148  
Old Jul 7, '07, 10:43 am
Pier Pier is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

I'm not sure I'm on topic, but I agree that many people are 'in name only' in many different regards...

I'm a Democrat 'in name only.' Otherwise, I would indeed be a 'Catholic in name only'...

I pray for the change in this country, with what the majority of them stand for...

(Some being already pro-life, thank God!)
  #149  
Old Jan 27, '08, 1:47 pm
bill1879 bill1879 is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Please visit jesus-is-lord website. Thank you.
  #150  
Old Jan 28, '08, 6:10 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1879 View Post
Please visit jesus-is-lord website. Thank you.
Neat website that promotes Jesus, but completely excludes his Church. Also proponents a faith-only salvation.
 

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