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  #1  
Old Jan 12, '08, 8:48 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Fasting conflicts

Next week, for those Byzantine Christians who follow the Western Paschalion, is a fast free week--the first week of Triodion.

But the same time, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday are the fast of the Ninevites for Chaldean (and I assume Assyrian) Christians.

Question--if a Chaldean were to visit a Byzantine Catholic home for dinner that Wednesday, would he follow the Byzantine practice of his host (fast-free) or would he still be expected to fast?\

How about if the Chaldean (or Assyrian) were to visit a Byzantine Church function during this time?

I'm sure this issue could come up at several other times of the year as well.

Anybody have an idea?
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  #2  
Old Jan 12, '08, 10:56 am
Woodstock Woodstock is offline
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Default Re: Fasting conflicts

This is a problem most fasting Christians face in America as popular culture does not understand fasting. The advice I have always heard when fasting and a guest is to graciously accept the hospitality and to privately fast by not having large helpings or seconds however possible without offending the host or calling attention to one's own plate. I have heard of people being counseled to keep their fasts as a witness to others, especially during family holidays. How do others handle it?
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  #3  
Old Jan 12, '08, 5:13 pm
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Fasting conflicts

Now if someone were to step out from behind a bush and ask me, I would say that one of the purposes of fasting is to curb one's self-will--and that courtesy and charity will go further in this direction than simply abstaining from food, so submit to your host's customs.
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  #4  
Old Jan 14, '08, 11:07 am
Diak Diak is offline
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Default Re: Fasting conflicts

The Fathers say hospitality and charity should come first. One can read several instances in the Desert Fathers and more recent ascetics where they indeed accepted the gifts graciously put forth by the host over scrupulosity - sometimes at the scorn of other monks.

Elder Isidore of New Gethsemane (the spiritual father to several great priests as St. Pavel Florensky) said to "receive all from the host as a gift from God". He once even took cheese or fish (I can't remember which) at a dinner outside of the monastery. This was the first week of the Great Fast, known amongst us as "Clean Week" or sometimes "Black Fast Week".

A younger monk saw this, was incensed and "ratted him out" to the Hegumen. The Hegumen shook his head and told the young zealot "You know much about the church laws but you know nothing about charity and hospitality" and sent him on his way.

The amount of food can certainly be an ascetic exercise as well - one can be reasonable in taking food, portion size, etc. and still be very charitable and gracious to the hospitality of the host.
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  #5  
Old Jan 15, '08, 4:07 am
Patchunky Patchunky is offline
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Default Re: Fasting conflicts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diak View Post
A younger monk saw this, was incensed and "ratted him out" to the Hegumen. The Hegumen shook his head and told the young zealot "You know much about the church laws but you know nothing about charity and hospitality" and sent him on his way
This reminds of attending a Vespers for the Beginning of Great Lent at a local Antiochian parish.

Some Orthodox friends invited me to with to dinner and Vespers for the beginning of Great and Holy Lent. They prepared a covered dish and we went to the parish.

The priest's wife(who happens to be a VERY famous speaker and author in some Orthodox circles) didn't recognize us as members of the parish and came over to "greet" us. She asked what was in the covered dish and what it was made with.

When my friend mentioned that it had a tablespoon of vegitable oil in it, the wife of the priest promptly walked into the kitchen, returned with a large sheet of brown paper and Magic Mark and wrote "NOT A FAST DISH" and placed it over the covered dish.

My friends and I were horrified. We went in for Vespers and then left the service a little early, went to the church hall and took our covered dish and came home.

Needless to say, we have never gone back....
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  #6  
Old Jan 31, '08, 6:56 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Fasting conflicts

Did your friend specify that it was OLIVE oil in the dish, or other kind of vegetable oil.

In most Orthodox circles I know, including Antiochians, other vegetable oil is permitted.

Some very strict Romanian elders permit olive oil during the fasts. Anciently, olive oil was filtered through leather membranes which is why it was forbidden; it is not so made now.
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