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  #46  
Old Jul 20, '08, 9:15 pm
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
By GRACE ALONE through FAITH ALONE in CHRIST ALONE by His shed BLOOD ONCE ALONE

No didn't hear it or read it.
Can we say, "closed channel"?
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  #47  
Old Jul 20, '08, 9:18 pm
drbible1611 drbible1611 is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church Militant View Post
Eden, he can't agree to anything that would make his so-called 1611 KJV Bible prove less than the Bible that the apostles used. The fcat is that he doesn't use a 1611 edition KJV because that edition had all 73 books in it. I know because I've seen one and read from it.

He's using the abridged version that was edited in the mid 1800s by some Bible society because they were too cheap to continue to offer the whole Bible. That's the historical fact.
You just have no idea do you?

Actually I do have a 1611 AV edition in front of me and the Apocrypha is NOT part of the OT or NT and it NEVER HAS been recognised as inspired Scripture by any translator of the King James Bible-please don't lie.

Calling me a creep was bad enough but to lie as well-tut, tut Read Revelation 21:8
  #48  
Old Jul 20, '08, 9:20 pm
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
By GRACE ALONE through FAITH ALONE in CHRIST ALONE by His shed BLOOD ONCE ALONE

No didn't hear it or read it.
Let's look back at your first comment:

Quote:
the pope certainly did not proclaim the gospel or Christ's second coming when he was live on TV
And, yes, he did proclaim the Gospel, the Good News, the New Testament. You have nine documents to drink it all in.

Now, you are narrowing your definition of "Gospel" to mean "Protestant errors" like faith alone. The Protestant Sola Fide is not biblical. Of course, he didn't proclaim the unbiblical doctrine of Sola Fide...

NOT BY FAITH ALONE

An article for you to read, since you must not have the last time I posted it:

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9710chap.asp
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  #49  
Old Jul 20, '08, 9:29 pm
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Introducing:

http://www.tmbible.com/overview.htm

The Third Millennium Bible® (TMB®), New Authorized VersionTM, is an updating of the full and complete text of the Authorized (King James) Version of the Holy Bible, first published in A.D. 1611.

· Based on the most traditional, complete text
The Third Millennium Bible New Testament is based on the traditional Greek New Testament text which was in continual use from the time of the Church Fathers until the last two decades of the nineteenth century, a period of over 1500 years. This traditional text finds support in over 5000 ancient Greek manuscripts, more than any writing in the entire history of literature. By contrast, most contemporary Bibles are supported by a mere handful of ancient Greek manuscripts, which were ignored by the church for more than a millennium.

· Includes the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical Books
The Third Millennium Bible includes all the books contained in the 1611 Authorized Version, including its Deuterocanonical Books/Apocrypha. It is the only modern updating which contains all 80 books in the original 1611 Authorized Version. In restoring the Authorized Version's beautiful Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical Books, the Third Millennium Bible stands in the tradition of the great English-language Bibles of the past, including the Wycliffe Bible (1382), the Coverdale Bible (1535), the Great Bible (1539), the Geneva Bible (1560), the Bishop's Bible (1568), the Douay-Rheims Bible (1609), and the Authorized Version (1611). These beautiful writings were also included in Luther's original Bible, the Latin Vulgate, and the Greek Old Testament used by the Apostolic Church. The Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical Books in the TMB are: 1 and 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, The Rest of Esther, The Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, The Song of the Three Holy Children, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, The Prayer of Manasseh, 1 and 2 Maccabees.


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  #50  
Old Jul 20, '08, 9:33 pm
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
You just have no idea do you?
I disagree.
Quote:
Actually I do have a 1611 AV edition in front of me and the Apocrypha is NOT part of the OT or NT and it NEVER HAS been recognised as inspired Scripture by any translator of the King James Bible-please don't lie.
I'm not lying and if that Bible of yours has only 66 books in it it is not an actual 1611 KJV Bible and you owe me an apology for calling me a liar.

The fact is that the original KJV actually used the Latin Vulgate as a source and it does indeed have 73 books. It's easy to see if I am lying. Look here. Maybe you should order yourself one!
Quote:
Calling me a creep was bad enough but to lie as well-tut, tut Read Revelation 21:8
If you act like a creep then no one sees the Christ living in you and THAT is why we don't want to listen to guys like you. You are nothing like the Jesus of the Gospels. St Francis of Assisi was right. "Preach the Gospel at all times. When necessary use words."

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  #51  
Old Jul 20, '08, 9:51 pm
WynCatholic WynCatholic is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
I'm not interpreting anything I'm reading what it says and believing what it says.

Don't leave your brain at the door just read the BOOK!
I Did!! I 20(okay...30) years ago I would've been on the street corner with you preachin' away at them catholics.

I must tell you, Drbible, that Hillsong Church and their music led me in my journey into the Catholic church. 'Tis True!'
It was through reading the scriptures while singing their songs in my church (and in the Concert of Praise Choirs ) that I understood the wonderful theology of Paul and Peter and Jesus and the Early Church. That theology was what Paul called our Union with Christ. Please don't just grab the label and plug in your own definitions. read the NT, try to understand how the church then understood and implemented that understanding...

I was not happy when I discovered that the Catholic Church taught and always taught what I was newly discovering in the Bible. i grew up with chick tracts, the 1689 Baptist confession of faith, the works of John Owen, Calvin and well as the guys in like chafer, walvoord, Boettner.
In my most charitable moments, I regarded the catholic church as a place where people were not taught Christian theology, infected by Liberalism and indifferentism. It is afflcted by those things, and yet it does proclaim The Bible Truth in every Mass, and in every Sacrament.
I cannot convince you. You are determined in your resistence to the truth of the Bible. I will pray that God will enlighten your soul with a Loving Knowledge of Him and of His Gospel.
Read the Bible,(even your limited one, the one without the books removed by Luther etal in the 1530's) as a whole book, not cut up into peices according to what somebody taught you.

1.You need to approach your Bible with respect and read it.... without the recent heresy of dispensationalism (DArby 1830's) or the earlier heresy of 'private interpretation') hacking up scriptures so that YOU can disregard JESUS constradicting you about your judgement before God (Matthew 25)

2. My heart aches for you in your darkness.
There is a beauty in the Gospel of Grace, the Gospel of the Mystery of Faith that Paul described and embraced.
Rather, your form of godliness is denying the power of the Christian Faith, and your own soul is in danger because you refuse to listen to the scriptures, choosing to listen instead to whichever 'eartickler' that has caught your doctrinal fancy.
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  #52  
Old Jul 20, '08, 10:18 pm
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
I thought I was a 'separated brethren' not an enemy of Christ...sounds like you are a prevatican II traditionalist.
Is that what it sounds like to you? This is why you shouldn't rely solely on yourself to interpret another. Which brings me to I did not say you are an enemy of Christ but it is interesting that you did. The, 'Enimies of Christ,' statement is from a movie and was about my maturing relationship and charity in Christ.
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  #53  
Old Jul 20, '08, 11:36 pm
WynCatholic WynCatholic is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church Militant View Post
Am I the only one here who sees an agenda in this guy's remarks?
No.& I think he is suspicious of the Catholic Church and critical of what he falsely believes it teaches....
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  #54  
Old Jul 21, '08, 2:49 am
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
My discussions were pretty lengthy with some of the pilgrims who obviously were NOT trusting in Christ's grace ALONE to get to heaven but also their good works and confession of sins.

I give praise to my Saviour that I am sealed and delivered by redemption through His blood and on my way to heaven, simply a passing pilgrim in this wicked world.
NOWHERE is it stated that christ's grace ALONE will get you to heaven. In fact every place in the bible where christ says from his own lips what it is going to take to get you home he always mentions WHAT YOU DO and WHAT YOU DID NOT DO. Christ never mentions the good intentions you had being enough to get you to heaven. You need good works for with out good works faith is dead. as saint paul says in a place. "I make up in my body what is lacking in the sufferings of christ." IF the sufferings of christ is enough then how come Good old saint paul seems to think that something was lacking in the sufferings of christ and he had to make up for it.
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  #55  
Old Jul 21, '08, 2:58 am
down under down under is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
So if there are NO good works the person goes to hell?

What if there are SOME good works but not enough?

What does the Bible mean when it says "....All LIARS SHALL HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE"?

Is one lie enough to send you to Hell? How many lies do you have to say before you are called a liar?

How many people do yo have to kill to be called a 'murderer'?

Scary stuff hey!
If you know this then you understand the necessity of true conversion. confessing of sins is part of that. weather you understand that God personally gave the apostles the ability to forgive the sins of men or you confess your sins "straight to god" through what is called "perfect contrition". which basically means you are sorry for your sins ONLY because they offended GOD your beloved and not because you are in jail or your wife left you. True repentence is paramount because God cannot exist with sin ANY sin. so like you say scarry stuff
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  #56  
Old Jul 21, '08, 3:05 am
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
You make some very good points, however, it does raise the question why the Council of Trent pronounced over 100 ANATHEMAS against the reformers.

Is an anathema proclaiming the truth in LOVE?
Yes an anathema is proclaimaing the truth in love. You said it was necessary to judge. The pope and the council of bishops have the right to judge. and they did. the proclaimed the truth that the protesters might see it and repent of there errors.
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  #57  
Old Jul 21, '08, 3:14 am
down under down under is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
Yup, read it and heard it ALL before.

You forgot to mention Matt 25 to back up good works as did several pilgrims I spoke to.

The trouble is Matt 25 isn't saying what you are told to believe it is saying by your Church-very sad.
okay you know alot about the bible from a certain prospective fine. if you are going to make bible quotes please write what they are. as far as needing "back up" this verse can easily stand alone. it does not need any help. and well he does in fact have a valid point which you ignored. you then make a vague comment which you do not explain. this is not helping the debate. in all charity for the ignorant who have never heard your perticular argument before please make all accusations specific. thank you for your time.
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  #58  
Old Jul 21, '08, 3:21 am
down under down under is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

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Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
No it's not drawing attention to myself it's ALL about the Lord Jesus Christ.

Downtown Sydney was resounding with the shouts of Benedicto, Benedicto, Benedicto, Benedicto......instead of salvation comes only through Jesus Christ.

At least I have the guts to stand on a street corner and tell people about Christ, I didn't see or hear one pilgrim talking to a local non-Catholic Sydneysider about Christ and the pope certainly did not proclaim the gospel or Christ's second coming when he was live on TV.

All I heard was someone reading about us being redeemed by the 'Holy' cross during a re-enactment of the 'stations of the cross'.

No folks we are REDEEMED by the BLOOD of Jesus Christ!
okay the fella did not use the exact words you would have used to say we are redeemed by the sacrifice of our lord at calvary. are you kidding? He said the exact same thing you said. He just used different words. and for the Pope. he was constantly proclaiming christ to the world. He did not overtly mention one aspect of christian theology so you take offense. okay he did mention the second comming of christ several times. so did cardinal pell. You just were not paying attention to the mass. If you had been you would know that the mass is all about the saving blood of christ and the one sacrfice of the cross being made present to us now, and the comming of jesus at the end of time. the second comming is mentioned explictedly at least once that I can think of. however I have not thought about it that hard.
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  #59  
Old Jul 21, '08, 3:30 am
down under down under is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

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Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
Did you know that the Council of Trent called Jesus Christ a liar?

Matthew chapter 23

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Jesus Christ Himself set the OT canon and it didn't contain the Apocrypha.

Romans chapter 3

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The Jews were the custodians of the OT and NOT the Catholic Church- ALL HEBREW BIBLES BEGIN WITH GENESIS and END WITH 2 CHRONICLES as confirmed by Christ Himself.

There is no Apocrypha to be found in a Jewish Bible.
okay perhaps I am ignorant but nowhere have you shown in anyway that Jesus CONFIRMED the old testament. Maybe you think in this little tid bit you made your point obvious. In case you did not know. I have no idea what your talking about. and i don't see how any other reasonable person could come up with what you did based on what you just posted. if there is more then you know make a complete posting please.
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  #60  
Old Jul 21, '08, 7:50 am
GemmaRose GemmaRose is offline
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Default Re: World Youth Day & Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
My discussions were pretty lengthy with some of the pilgrims who obviously were NOT trusting in Christ's grace ALONE to get to heaven but also their good works and confession of sins.

I give praise to my Saviour that I am sealed and delivered by redemption through His blood and on my way to heaven, simply a passing pilgrim in this wicked world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyM View Post
Faith without works is dead - so it's possible to go to hell if you show no good works as fruits of your faith. Although we can't pronounce any individual to be in hell for certain, of course. Besides which, didn't Jesus say 'not all who call me 'Lord Lord' will be saved'?

What does the definition of 'murderer' or 'liar' have to do with anything you've said previous? Sounds like you're getting way off track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden View Post
We're very familiar with the Bible. It's a document entrusted by the Holy Spirit to the Catholic Church and the Canon was set by the authority of the Catholic bishops at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage. The Canon was then sent to Rome for Pope Boniface to confirm. Protestants have possession of the Bible because they continued to use it after they broke away from the Church Christ founded, minus the books they threw out.
Okay, "drbible," since you present yourself as a bible expert, why don't we take a look at a few passages which I don't believe we've discussed yet, so you can interpret them for us poor, ignorant Catholics . (After a few of the passages, I've taken the liberty of making some comments; these I've put in bold print.)

Matthew 7:1 -- Judge not, that you be not judged.

Matthew 7:21 -- Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Matthew 10:42 -- And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”
It might be as small as a cup of cold water, but we have to do something for our eternal reward.

Matthew 16:27 -- For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Matthew 20:20-28 -- 20Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Him with her sons, kneeling down and asking something from Him. 21And He said to her, “What do you wish?” She said to Him, “Grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on the left, in Your kingdom.” 22But Jesus answered and said, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?” They said to Him, “We are able.” 23So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.” 24And when the ten heard it, they were greatly displeased with the two brothers. 25But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. 27And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— 28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
How were Zebedee’s sons going to get to heaven? By sitting back and saying, “Okay Jesus! We believe in You!” or by having to do something?

Matthew 21:28-31 -- 28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ 29He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. 30Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. 31Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.”
Which son did the father’s will? The one who sat back and said, “Okay pops!” or the one who actually did the work?

Acts 9:36 -- At Joppa there was a certain disciple named Tabitha, which is translated Dorcas. This woman was full of good works and charitable deeds which she did.
How is this woman described by Paul? As one “full of good works and charitable deeds” not as one who had professed faith in Christ then just sat back and waited for others to serve her.

Acts 26:19-20 -- 19“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
What did Paul tell people they should do? (1) Repent. (2) Turn to God (believe). (3) Do works befitting repentance.

Romans 2:5-11 -- 5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.
Summing it up: Do good, not evil.

Continued . . .
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