[SPLIT] drbible1611's list of Catholic "mistakes"

[WynCatholic]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

Wayne,
Thank you for your concern and the grace with which you expressed it, unlike some others I could mention.

They are called by God to respond to the ... inaccuracies in your statements, and sometimes it gets frustrating when what one has said and worked on is ignored, rejected or called lies. They needed to be said, in the hopes that your conscience might be stirred up towards repentance. (It was a lot of work for me to cut out my normal arrogance )

Originally Posted by drbible

am truly surprised by your testimony but if you trusted Jesus Christ as your saviour and you have been born again, then although we may not preach together in the streets, I look forward to meeting you one day in heaven.

.I thank you for your charitable response here. I am regarded as 'apostate by my child hood friends in my home church. I call you, in Jesus name, to explore his gospel, to not write off as irrelevant his words or the words of his church. explore church history and seek to conform your self to the principles of his word.
how did the early church turn their worlds upside down in the cultures they were in, with the technology they had?
I

Originally Posted by drbible

Just don't forget that ALL born again Christians will face the Judgment Seat of Christ and our works will be tried!
Luke 12:48
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

now merge that whole passage (without your interpretive limitations) with Jesus' words and the words of all of the other passages in the NT (and Old) that discuss reward, shame before God, works cleansed from dead works, even the parable of the sower and the seed, and the parable of the wheat and the tares.
don't forget the talents, the bridesmaids,
But you cannot do it with that (recently invented) dispensationalist (nor a 'not Catholic') filter over your understanding.
Nor can you limit God to teach you if you beforehand exclude your becoming Catholic.
{My ignorance was an advantage there. Catholic was not even considered., since Catholic was to me an irrelevant blip on the radar screen. I thought Catholics were scripturally illiterate and therefore not a threat to my deepening walk with God.
I didn't really know any Catholics.
I'd never heard of Catholic Answers, never imagined Catholic Apologetics. I knew Catholic Theological structures from Bible sChool and Seminary, ~25 years previous and that was it. (It took two decades for me to set aside my anti-catholic filters) (But exCatholics, now them I knew!)
some high points of my journey: at Christmas 2003, singing the Christmas musicals, and reading and listening to holy scripture it struck me how the triune God always communicated - worked -incarnationally, thru people, thru prophets, through ... stuff. thru...me.
and Easter 2004 how that Incarnated Love lived and died AND ROSE ... AND CONTINUES HIS WORK THROUGH HIS BODY... THE CHURCH....and what that would mean for worship, structure, and message.
and in the summer of 2004, in the C.O.P. choirs I explored how Christ Jesus continues His work of reaching out to the world with His Gospel,
and Fall of 2004 I joined the R.C.I.A

[Eden]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

Do a study on the King James Bible translators for yourself.

I never knew that the Syriak and Old Latin (circa 100-150AD) Bibles didn't contain Hebrews, James and Revelation- as far as I am aware the Greek Text from Antioch did contain these books.

May I suggest that it was the Roman Catholic texts from Alexandria that were deficient in Hebrews (particularly Heb 10) and the book of Revelation.

As to Martin Luther believing that the book of James should be burned, so what-he was a fallible man.

I don't follow the beliefs or teachings of any man except the MAN CHRIST JESUS!

So, is that it then? You are just going to move on and pretend like the King James 1611 version did not contain the Deuterocanonicals, when we all know, including you, that it did?



The 2nd century Bibles you are referring to support what we already know, that the Canon was not set until the Councils of Carthage and Hippo. The Canon that you now have (minus the books thrown out by Luther) was set by the authority of the Catholic bishops at these councils in the late 4th and early 5th centuries. This fact is accepted by "mainstream" Protestant theologians. Perhaps you are outside the mainstream...

At least we agree Luther was a fallible man. But he was more than that. He was a sinful man who had no business created his own religion. Yet, even he acknowledges:

"We are compelled to concede to the papists that they have the Word of GOD, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."
Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John

A timeline of how the Bible came to us:

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/ti...ible_where.htm

And:

Where We Got the Bible... Our Debt to the Catholic Church

Traces the origin and preservation of sacred Scripture. This book includes the conversion story of the author, who converted from Calvinist ministry to Catholicism.

http://www.amazon.com/Where-Bible-De.../dp/0895551373

[Church Militant]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

You are lying.

Wrong again. And you are out of line to call me a liar.

The King James Bible translators NEVER considered the Apocrypha as INSPIRED, it was included between the OT and NT in the 1611 edition.

If you believe your own propaganda perhaps, but the historical facts prove otherwise. In fact there was law in England (under Protestant kings no less) that made it illegal to produce a Bible without them. You need to get your facts straight.

Are the study notes/footnotes throughout your Catholic Bible part of the OT and NT canon?-obviously NOT ditto the 1611 edition.

They were never introduced as "footnotes" or "commentary". I saw the edition I'm speaking of and their location was without comment. Furthermore, the order of the books in the Bible has never been considered inspired any more than the table of contents, and chapter and verse numberings are.

Have you read Rev 21:8?

Many times. Have you?

[Church Militant]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

ChurchMilitant,

Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley were burnt at the stake by the Church of Rome for refusing to worship the Eucharist as their beloved Lord and Saviour.

As these two heroes of the faith were burning Latimer said:

"Be of good comfort, Mr Ridley, and play the man; we shall this day light such a candle by God's grace in England as I trust never shall be put out"

Take it up with the Queen of England, but don't forget to take up all the similar atrocities perpetrated against Catholics by Henry VIII. Oh, and from an n-C historical website.

Queen Mary ascended the throne of England in 1553. In subsequent years, she had at least two hundred people put to death (often by fire) for their religious convictions. To history she became known as "Bloody Mary," although, in truth, she killed far fewer people per year than her brutal father.

...The scholar Nicholas Ridley had been a chaplain to King Henry VIII and was Bishop of London under his son Edward.

Wonder who sat by and approved and encouraged Henry's atrocities? Not to mention his divorce, which was the real reason for his break with the Catholic Church.

Rest assured as long as I have breath in my lungs I will keep the candle burning, preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and exposing the heresies of Romanism.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, ...

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

Good Day & Good Bye
From a CREEP who has a mansion in heaven waiting for him (John 14:2)

Good riddance IMO.

I never said you were a creep, just that you act like one. You love to misconstrue what people say and believe. That's dishonest.

PS Make sure you check out our WYD preaching on youtube

Yeah... make all those videos glorifying you and all such as you. What did Our Lord say? Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou dost an almsdeed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.

[Roamin_Xian]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

As to Martin Luther... he was a fallible man.

Yeah, he was a fallible man alright. He was also the primary engine for modern antisemitic thought, especially amongst the Nazi regime.

That's a man you admire.

[Roamin_Xian]

Dr. Bible,

Are you even interested in dialogue?

[Forum Admin]

This thread is split from:
World Youth Day & Islam

...largely because these posts had nothing to do with the original topic and had devolved into a bit of a free-for-all.

If you wish to contribute to the original topic ("World Youth Day & Islam"), please go to the above linked thread and post there.

Participants in this thread are reminded that charity and truth go hand-in-hand. If the discussion herein degrades any further, I will close the thread.

[Journeying Jude]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

My discussions were pretty lengthy with some of the pilgrims who obviously were NOT trusting in Christ's grace ALONE to get to heaven but also their good works and confession of sins.

I give praise to my Saviour that I am sealed and delivered by redemption through His blood and on my way to heaven, simply a passing pilgrim in this wicked world.

We do believe in confessing our sins, since remaining in sin equals turning our backs to Jesus. We know He saved us; but we also know that we can lose all He gained for us. We have the blessing of the sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation -- given to us by Christ on the night of His Resurrection. Without that sacrament, we would need perfect contrition in order to return to grace and full communion with the Lord. You see, Christ saved us; but we can lose His gift.
If you think that He will bring you to Heaven even if you deny Him through unrepented sin, you have presumption. All of the so-called "good works" you are doing by attempting to evangelize us Catholics will not save you if you persist in that presumption.
As for our good works, they are merely expressions of God's grace. All good comes from God.
Holy Spirit, help this person! Show him Your Truth!

[Journeying Jude]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

My discussions were pretty lengthy with some of the pilgrims who obviously were NOT trusting in Christ's grace ALONE to get to heaven but also their good works and confession of sins.

I give praise to my Saviour that I am sealed and delivered by redemption through His blood and on my way to heaven, simply a passing pilgrim in this wicked world.

Dear drbible1611:
First, another response to your quote above. Confession of sins -- that is, the sacrament -- is a means of obtaining Christ's grace -- His Gift -- the Holy Spirit. In fact, every sacrament is a means of obtaining Christ's grace!!!
When we commit mortal sin, we are cut off from the grace which He is pouring down on us. Through the sacrament of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation (three names for one), we are re-connected with that grace. As for good works, they are a natural product of a life of grace -- as much as breathing is a natural product of physical life.
This morning I received an inspiration from the Holy Spirit, who urged me to share this with you. The Holy Spirit brought you here; but not for the reason you believe. The moment will come; and you will be converted. He wants to use your zeal for the growth of our Holy Mother Church. I suggest you read Rome, Sweet Home, by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. In fact, I almost dare you to read it. The Holy Spirit, Who is the Love of the Father and the Son, wishes to pour down on you, drbible. And you WILL be Christ's witness to the ends of the Earth. (You can get the book at www.ewtn.com, the catalogue.) Meanwhile, you might want to watch the "Reasons for Our Hope" Bible study (EWTN [Eternal Word Television Network] Thursday, 6:30AM Daylight Savings Time [that's eastern US]). It is a repeat of Tuesday, which I watched. You will hear and see Rosalind Moss tell of both her conversion from Judaism to Evangelical Christian and from Evangelical to Roman Catholic -- all keyed to one chapter in the Gospel of Luke. You will see Rosalind glow with the Holy Spirit!
I don't know when your moment will come, Drbible;
but, it will come!!!!!!!!!

[down under]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

Since you have an open mind I will gladly oblige.

Which Kingdom?-why the Kingdom of Heaven which is why Christ came the first time to establish the Kingdom of Heaven on earth but the Jews rejected Him. Christ is talking about NATIONS!


35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Who are Christ's brethren? Why the nation of Israel. During Jacob's Trouble those Gentile nations that stand up and defend the Jews (feed, clothe, visit in prison etc) will be rewarded for their good works.

Why do you think that Britain, USA and Australia have had such great blessings? Because they have, on the whole, supported the nation of Israel.


41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

This refers to the Gentile NATIONS that turned their back on Christ's brethren the Jews.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Gentile NATIONS (righteous) will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and those Gentile NATIONS which turned on the Jews to the Lake of Fire.

Read Revelation 20:11-15

Mt 25 occurs on earth.

Judgment of individuals ie the unsaved (White throne judgment) occurs in outer space.

I hope that has helped you to understand this passage has NOTHING to do with your works getting you to heaven.



This is NOT my private interpretation it is simply reading the Bible and comparing Scripture with Scripture!

okay you just split a pretty fine hair. He is talking about nations, but nations are made up of people. This is the book of mathew. Jesus himself is speaking these words. Jesus came to save THE WORLD. His brethern are those who keep his comandments. ie those who love him. The whole point of the comming of Christ was to make the kingdom of heaven for everyone. versuss 41-45 are clearly talking about people all over the world being judged at he same time for there lack of charity. and what they did not do for the least of his they did not do for them.
but you know all about your works being tried by GOD at the end of time I don't have to tell you because in post 64 you explained to wayne

Just don't forget that ALL born again Christians will face the Judgment Seat of Christ and our works will be tried!

you understand that your works ARE very important. you also understand that as important as they are they are SECONDARY to the blood that christ shed at calvary. It is this ONE sacrifice that saves us no one is suggesting differently. BECAUSE of that one sacrifice we have the obligation to act differently. to repent (confession or perfect contrision whichever you can pull off) to be baptised. to be a new life for Jesus in the new covenant he established, and to tell the world about it. those are all works. and you have to do them. that is all we are saying.

[GemmaRose]

Originally Posted by drbible1611

They are very easily explained by "Rightly Dividing the word of Truth"

You have quoted many passages and it will take some time to go through each one, if you are being sincere and open minded, PM me and I will gladly take the time to go through them with you.

drbible,

You only quoted 1/2 of my post so I hope you saw it was in 2 parts.

No need to PM - I'm sure other posters will be interested in your responses... And, yes, I know there were quite a few quotes - no need to hurry.