Karl Keating's E-Letter of January 25, 2005 - Page 4

tuvalu · #46 Jul 8, '08, 2:04 pm

Hello Karl, in your letter you say that "rights always are paired with duties". What about children? They certainly have their rights but what about their duties? They sure have no real duties in the first short part of their life. Shouldn't we treat our dogs in the way we treat our children, with the exception, that the dog will never be a grown-up in his/her very short life?

tracifish · #47 Jul 15, '08, 6:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forum Admin

Karl's E-Letter of January 25, 2005

Topic:

Animal Rights and Wrongs

==========
http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_050125.asp

I'm getting to think Karl Keating thinks like a protestant in some ways. This is something we would talk about....and the Canada thing too.

qmvsimp · #48 Jul 16, '08, 9:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracifish

I'm getting to think Karl Keating thinks like a protestant in some ways. This is something we would talk about....and the Canada thing too.

I'm getting to think that some clarification needs to be made regarding your comment.

Why do you think Karl is thinking like a Protestant? Do you mean that as a compliment or a pejorative? Did you mean Christian?

tracifish · #49 Jul 16, '08, 11:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmvsimp

I'm getting to think that some clarification needs to be made regarding your comment.

Why do you think Karl is thinking like a Protestant? Do you mean that as a compliment or a pejorative? Did you mean Christian?

It is a compliment.

qmvsimp · #50 Jul 16, '08, 12:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracifish

It is a compliment.

Got it.

What part(s) of Catholicism do you find most objectionable?

tracifish · #51 Jul 16, '08, 1:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmvsimp

Got it.

What part(s) of Catholicism do you find most objectionable?

I don't think I can say anything that you haven't already heard. It's all the same stuff: veneration of the dead, Non-sola scripturianism, part grace and part works for salvation, transubstantiation, repetitive prayers that sound like chants, mysticism, emphasis on "mysteries" (not the biblical definition)....Rome being called Babylon...and the "city on seven hills", much drunkeness, bingo, raffles and gambling, reverence of man's wisdom and human philosophies, and the blood of
the saints (see Foxe's Book of Martyrs).

I see good things, too. Catholics are some of the nicest people I know...but Rome is trying to start a one-world religion. Look at all the interfaith activities. The bible says "be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers"....love them, bless them, pray for them, do kind things....but do not yoke up and pretend that Muslims, Jews, Protestants, witch-doctors, necromancers, diviners, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Druzes, Druids, "faith-healers", and Mormons worship the same God.

See? I haven't said anything you haven't heard before. Anyway, I didn't come here to fight, but make friends and, yes, discuss these things.

Can we still be friends, though agree we do not agree on so many
things...that we're not in the same faith? That means we can't yoke up, take communion or pray together...but we can still offer to pray for one-another, because we still care for one-another.

And I hope we can share a few laughs.

qmvsimp · #52 Jul 16, '08, 4:31 pm

Welcome. No need to start a fight.

Let me ask you a question. My biggest problem with Protestantism is Scripture.

On what basis do you know that the books in your Bible are divinely inspired and inerrant? For me, it's my Church. I don't understand how without it you can know which books belong and which don't.

penandzeke · #53 Nov 12, '08, 10:42 pm

I am Catholic and I love and believe in the religion. I also believe in God's law above man's law. Interpretation of the scriptures, left to man's mind if fallible. Each human makes mistakes in all aspects of his God given life. To say that animals have " no rights" arrogant as well as ignorant. Do you know what God intends for all the creatures He creates. If you have a direct line to God, please let the rest of humanity know. Otherwise, please get over yourself and your belief in your own importance and realize that you and I and all humans do not have definite answers to the reality of God's creation. Try a little humility, it sounds as if you need it badly. Penny

penandzeke · #54 Nov 12, '08, 10:50 pm

I am Catholic and I love and believe in the religion. I also believe in God's law above man's law. Interpretation of the scriptures, left to man's mind if fallible. Each human makes mistakes in all aspects of his God given life. To say that animals have " no rights" arrogant as well as ignorant. Do you know what God intends for all the creatures He creates. If you have a direct line to God, please let the rest of humanity know. Otherwise, please get over yourself and your belief in your own importance and realize that you and I and all humans do not have definite answers to the reality of God's creation. I believe what I say here also applies to whether or not animals have souls that go on as a human soul goes on through Eternity with God. Of course that is my own belief and I do not have a definitive answer. I believe faith creates reality with God. I believe that is the true gift of a loving faith.
Sometimes a person sounds wiser if he/she simply says, "I don't know" when asked their opinion on God's intentions. Try a little humility, it sounds as if you need it badly. Penny

nordskoven · #55 Dec 4, '08, 2:56 pm

God makes converts, not men. May the Lord enlighten the eyes of our hearts. God is glorified in His creation, and even more so in humans who love and obey the Almighty as their free will choice, the Church Triumphant, the saints in Heaven. (We saints on Earth are the Church Militant.)

Truth is unitive. Venerating saints who are in union with God, "perfect as the Father is perfect" as all are called to be, is glorifying God. But this veneration pales in comparison to the worship given Christ in the Eucharist, for example, with Catholics worldwide praying in front of the Real Presence at parish chapels 24 hours a day. You don't see that so are offended by any nod to the saints.

SOLA was added to the scriptures by Luther. Do we get to add any word we wish here and there? A book cannot teach and discipline with the authority Christ received from the Father and gave to the apostles. People shepherd, people authorized by Jesus Christ. Self-shepherding sheep are in chaos as SOLA-bible believers disagree, having no apostolic oversight. "Luther said it, I believe it, and that settles it" is the sum of SOLA.

Man is saved by grace, God's grace, and souls possessing the capacity to respond by stepping out in faith do so in works that witness of God's gracious love. Works will be judged, as Christ said.

Pray always. Repetitive prayer? The Rosary? That's a voluntary meditation on the life of Christ, a bit of tricky multi-tasking. Try it. You may drone a bit. But it's not demanded of Catholics. This is optional. If it scandalizes you, abstain.

Christ let all His followers leave when refusing to eat His Body and drink His Blood; the twelve alone stayed. Six times we are told we "must" eat His Body and drink His Blood to have eternal life. No SOLA literalism here, eh? Pick and chose, but apostolic tradition belies your squeamishness. Of course Luther in his ON THE PRIVATE MASS and ON THE PRIESTHOOD said Satan appeared to him and denied priestly authority; transubstantiation, i.e., the Real Presense; and any blessing of consecration. Luther said he agreed with Satan. The safe course would be to do the opposite of what Satan, the Father of Lies and Murder, says.

Wish I could quote this from popular reprints of Luther (as Catholics enjoy reprints of ancient saints) but Luther's writings are highly sanitized and out-of-print except in pricey collections.

Rome, as many ancient cities, was founded on seven hills. The Vatican hill wasn't one of 'em. Sorry. The Vatican was the hill outside of Rome proper (just as Christ was crucified outside the city at a graveyard site, Golgotha) as it was an "unclean" graveyard. Peter's mausoleum-church is still extant under St. Peter's, the remnant of the persecution that lead to his martyrdom there. Lisbon is on seven hills...

Mormons are clean and sober but say that Lucifer was Jesus' spirit brother. The Cathlic Church uniquely singled out Mormon "trinitarian" baptism as unorthodox. Nice doesn't count.

Bingo. If the apostles can draw lots for who succeeded Judas and settle on Matthias, bingo can surely be overlooked. All righty. Ready to join the 2,000 year old Church Jesus Christ founded on Simon Peter the Rock? I invite you to attend RCIA/Rite of Christian Initiation, free at any Catholic Church. I extend this invitation to all the Muslims, Sikhs and the like who are "invincibly ignorant" but not damned as being victims of their culture...unless they know better.

Reverence of human wisdom could be a deal breaker. St. Thomas Aquinas saved Aristotle for fools like me who like to say things like, "truth is unitive." I appreciate having logic tools to discern error, but the final word is Peter's because Jesus Christ said it, I believe it, and that settles it.

hays1122 · #56 Dec 22, '08, 8:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nordskoven

Of course Luther in his ON THE PRIVATE MASS and ON THE PRIESTHOOD said Satan appeared to him and denied priestly authority; transubstantiation, i.e., the Real Presense; and any blessing of consecration. Luther said he agreed with Satan. The safe course would be to do the opposite of what Satan, the Father of Lies and Murder, says.

Wish I could quote this from popular reprints of Luther (as Catholics enjoy reprints of ancient saints) but Luther's writings are highly sanitized and out-of-print except in pricey collections.

I haven't found any think to support this claim," Satan appeared to him and denied priestly authority; transubstantiation, i.e., the Real Presense; and any blessing of consecration. Luther said he agreed with Satan."
I have found two websites dealing with Luther's writings and a forum to ask questions. So if you can be more specific about where you found your information I will be able to read this for myself.
I have never heard that Luther listened to Satan.
I googled my question and didn't find anything.
So please tell me more about Luther and Satan's conversations.

qmvsimp · #57 Dec 29, '08, 10:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hays1122

I haven't found any think to support this claim," Satan appeared to him and denied priestly authority; transubstantiation, i.e., the Real Presense; and any blessing of consecration. Luther said he agreed with Satan."
I have found two websites dealing with Luther's writings and a forum to ask questions. So if you can be more specific about where you found your information I will be able to read this for myself.
I have never heard that Luther listened to Satan.
I googled my question and didn't find anything.
So please tell me more about Luther and Satan's conversations.

We don't really have definitive information about Luther and Satan. Most of it is myth. Here is a little of what I found. Most of it is innocuous.

http://www.luther.de/en/tintenfass.html
http://www.themystica.com/mystica/ar...martin%20.html

This one has a quote from Luther's book:

http://woauthority.blogspot.com/2007...and-devil.html

hays1122 · #58 Dec 30, '08, 6:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmvsimp

We don't really have definitive information about Luther and Satan. Most of it is myth. Here is a little of what I found. Most of it is innocuous.

http://www.luther.de/en/tintenfass.html
http://www.themystica.com/mystica/ar...martin%20.html

This one has a quote from Luther's book:

http://woauthority.blogspot.com/2007...and-devil.html

I read those articles and none said,
" Satan appeared to him and denied priestly authority; transubstantiation, i.e., the Real Presense; and any blessing of consecration. Luther said he agreed with Satan."
I didn't see any problem with what I read at the links you offered.
Though I do want to thank you for bringing up the information because it has made me realize that I need to read up on this topic. I have gone through life with blinders on,blinders put in place by my parents and others in authority. I had never heard or read anything negative about Luther.
I am now getting the Catholic perspective.