Sheed and Hahn errors - Page 2

Chris Burgwald · #16 Jun 19, '04, 2:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Frege

People on this forum have no problem maligning eminent Catholic scholars and churchmen (e.g., Fr. Richard McBrien, Fr. Raymond Brown, S.S., Fr. Karl Rahner, S.J., et al.)

G., I agree that Rahner and Brown often get undeserved bum raps, but I think you do them a disservice by including McBrien in their number. He doesn't come close to being the authentic Catholic scholar the other two were. How often did you see the NYTimes giving a church-bashing quote from Brown or Rahner? Didn't happen, at least with the frequency it does with McBrien.

Some of his work is interesting, but by and large, he's made his name by being "anti-" more than "pro-".

Vincent · #17 Jun 19, '04, 3:03 pm

Wherever we stand, we'll do well to heed the following advice from St. Ignatius of Loyola:

"Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved"

(Spiritual Exercises, 22, as quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 2478)

And I'll begin with me (I'm the biggest offender on this regard).

G. Frege · #18 Jun 19, '04, 3:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Burgwald

G., I agree that Rahner and Brown often get undeserved bum raps, but I think you do them a disservice by including McBrien in their number. He doesn't come close to being the authentic Catholic scholar the other two were. How often did you see the NYTimes giving a church-bashing quote from Brown or Rahner? Didn't happen, at least with the frequency it does with McBrien.

Some of his work is interesting, but by and large, he's made his name by being "anti-" more than "pro-".

Agreed. His was just one of the names I recall reading about on this forum.

georgeaquinas · #19 Jun 19, '04, 4:53 pm

To the original poster:

I am afraid (and I mean this with charity) that you are being a bit riduculous.

There is a great difference (and distance) between a popularization (or should I say a beginning explanation) of a theological concept that is represented by Hahn, et al and a Latin quote from St. Thomas.

One must start at the beginning and in the beginning concepts are simplified and definitions are loosened.

If you are comfortable with reading St. Thomas in the original, I wonder why you are read Sheed and Hahn.

Remember, none of us will enter the Kingdom based on our ability to explain theological concepts: the Creed uses the world "believe" not "I can demonstrate" or "I can prove."

Just some random thoughts.

Super Mom · #20 Jun 19, '04, 5:58 pm

First time reading the Forums and was dismayed to read what was written by G. Frege about Frank Sheed. Frank Sheed did more than merely speak to winos in Hyde Park. What an insult and so undeserved. Frank Sheed wrote many books and spoke to many people even outside of Hyde Park. His books are still read today. As to his son leaving the faith, what does that have to do with Frank Sheeds beliefs. Many adult children leave the faith even if the parents are devote and faithful Catholics. Its a matter of free will, sin, temptation. Parents can only pass on the Faith, not make their adult child practice it. Why Scott Hahn's children could leave the faith. Does this make Scott Hahn's beliefs wrong?

As to the words symbol and sign, many people use these words interchangably. I think the catechism says it all: A sacrament is a SIGN instutited by Christ to give grace.

cmom · #21 Jun 19, '04, 6:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Frege

People on this forum have no problem maligning eminent Catholic scholars and churchmen (e.g., Fr. Richard McBrien, Fr. Raymond Brown, S.S., Fr. Karl Rahner, S.J., et al.), but if one dares speak against Hahn or Sheed, even in a spirit of charity, he or she is excoriated.

The late Fr. Herb McCabe, O.P., was an Oxford theologian and a man who devoted his life to Jesus Christ and His church. Frank Sheed was layman with no formal theological training whose greatest accomplishment was debating winos in Hyde Park. And isn't it interesting that the son of Frank and Maisie, Wilifred Sheed, grew up to loathe the Catholic faith? Poor Wilifred, he couldn't learn to love the sterile, reactionary faith of those in Catholic apologetics.

How do you put eminent and scholar and Catholic in the same thread as the name McBrien?
Raymond Browns "biblical scholarship" has driven people out of the Church. His method of insinuating doubt into people's minds about the historicity of the Bible is well known.

Mr Sheed and Professor Hahn (and Kreeft, Keating, Ray, Shea, Grodi) bring many Catholics into the Church with their books, McBrien, Brown and Rahner drive Catholics away.
So which do you think people should be reading?

#22 Jun 19, '04, 6:25 pm

Quote:

Walmart Catholic types.

"Price check on aisle six."
(I don't even know what that means.)

DenRat · #23 Jun 20, '04, 10:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Burgwald

G., I agree that Rahner and Brown often get undeserved bum raps, but I think you do them a disservice by including McBrien in their number. He doesn't come close to being the authentic Catholic scholar the other two were. How often did you see the NYTimes giving a church-bashing quote from Brown or Rahner? Didn't happen, at least with the frequency it does with McBrien.

Some of his work is interesting, but by and large, he's made his name by being "anti-" more than "pro-".

Oh, no, Fr. McBrien is very "pro" -- he's pro-choice, pro-ordained women, pro-Kerry, etc.

Mfaustina1 · #24 Jun 21, '04, 10:54 pm

GFrege-

With all due respect since I don't know you or your heart, I have to say that you do come across as condescending in the tone of your posts. Scott Hahn and Frank Sheed and any other apologist that I'm acquainted with are NOT infallible. Have you thought to write these authors in a spirit of charity to ascertain if they were really putting forth a view that troubles you? Also I wish to say that it is the likes of Scott Hahn "and others" who have greatly aided me on my own path to Rome from Protestantism.

ps. I vote for ending this thread. It's getting ugly although good points have definately been made. Just my 2 cents though. -God's blessings to all! -Mfaustina1

St Veronica · #25 Jun 22, '04, 5:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Frege

People on this forum have no problem maligning eminent Catholic scholars and churchmen (e.g., Fr. Richard McBrien, Fr. Raymond Brown, S.S., Fr. Karl Rahner, S.J., et al.), but if one dares speak against Hahn or Sheed, even in a spirit of charity, he or she is excoriated.

The late Fr. Herb McCabe, O.P., was an Oxford theologian and a man who devoted his life to Jesus Christ and His church. Frank Sheed was layman with no formal theological training whose greatest accomplishment was debating winos in Hyde Park. And isn't it interesting that the son of Frank and Maisie, Wilifred Sheed, grew up to loathe the Catholic faith? Poor Wilifred, he couldn't learn to love the sterile, reactionary faith of those in Catholic apologetics.

You are going to try and tell faithful Catholics that we should be supporting McBrien??? The man who is so liberal it's hard to even think he's Catholic???

Pardon me while I throw up.

SV

Poisson · #26 Jun 22, '04, 8:50 am

I must be dense because I still don't see the issue. I have read Scott Hahn and Frank Sheed and find their explanations of the faith to be very accessible and lucid and I see them as individuals who sincerly want to defend the Church and have a great respect for the Magesterium. I have much more respect for them than I do for other so-called Catholic Theologians.