Catholics, what do you do with 1 John 5? It contradicts RCC doctrine concerning the assurance of salvation. See for yourself.

[joe370]

Hey johnpaul...you said

"...why did all those old guys bother with coming up with a bunch of wild ideas. why not just leave the worship service alone. the early church was worshiping jesus. but it looks like well meaning guys started coming up with all sorts of stuff.ascention of mary, i found out last nite, was just thought up around 1890 or so. please dont get me started on papal infallability."

Unity and oneness, as attested by the fallible Holy men of said church, thanks to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, are the key hallmarks of that one church, to which the apostles belonged...to which Jesus is the Head and Savior, and that church cannot fail, vis-a-vis even the minutest doctrine, according to the Holy Bible, thanks to the Holy Spirit, Who is "teaching" and "guiding" Jesus' One church in perpetuity; if that one church, to which GOD is the Head and Savior, to which the Holy Spirit is "teaching" and guiding" in perpetuity, failed vis-a-vis, any doctrine regarding faith and morals, at any point in history, then logically, GOD failed too. If the C.C. got it wrong about the ascension of Mary or her Immaculate Conception, then perhaps they got it wrong vis-a-vis the inclusion/exclusion of the books in the Holy Bible. If that is the case, then the Holy Spirit is no longer "teaching" and guiding" Jesus Body, and we are no longer saved, by belonging to Jesus' Mystical Body, to which He is the Head and Savior...Is the Universal Apostolic Church the place where one can find the Pillar and foundation of Truth, vis-a-vis any one doctrine ...where the House of the Living God resides.

Employing your line of reasoning, I should jettison the Trinity as well; It took over 300 years for that to defined, and some didn't embrace it, until it was defined; That's a long time my friend. If you believe in the Immaculate Conception as the early church fathers did, the her ascension makes perfect sense...Protestants to which you are not, subscribe to a man-made doctrine called sola scriptura, 1500 years removed from the church built by Christ, circa 33 AD. Shouldn't we be more concerned with pseudo-doctrines that divide as opposed to unite? If you belong to the C.C., then simply do as Christ said, to find the truth, vis-a-vis the blessed Mother Mary's ascension:

Take it to the church...Matthew 18




i was history student in college. i dont want to get kicked out of here. i think i can mention one thing though...st bartholemews day massacre. look it up. but not in a catholic site. long time ago i took som kid to the library. while i was standing around i saw a book on the inquisition. i thumbed thru it. it said all the inquisitors did was just asked questions and then let the people go. inquiring if they did such and so. simple. no harm, no foul. i looked at who published it. the catholic press.no bias there[/quote]

Stick with accredited scholars, be it catholic, protestant or secular, and you will find truth vis-a-vis any subject. Here is an excerpt from the link below...most people won't even bother to read the article...

Despite these facts, Pope John Paul II warns us:

"Yet the consideration of mitigating factors does not exonerate the Church from the obligation to express profound regret for the weaknesses of so many of her sons and daughters who sullied her face, preventing her from fully mirroring the image of her crucified Lord, the supreme witness of patient love and of humble meekness. From these painful moments of the past a lesson can be drawn for the future, leading all Christians to adhere fully to the sublime principle stated by the Council: “The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with both gentleness and power.”



http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...ld/wh0029.html