Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #811  
Old Feb 22, '09, 6:20 pm
Randy Carson's Avatar
Randy Carson Randy Carson is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: September 22, 2006
Posts: 14,313
Religion: Protestant Convert to Catholicism
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Oh glorious apostle St. Jude, faithful servant and friend of Jesus, the name of the traitor who delivered thy beloved Master into the hands of His enemies has caused thee to be forgotten by many, but the Church honors and invokes thee universally as the patron of hopeless cases--of things despaired of. Pray for me who am so miserable; make use, I implore thee, of that particular privilege accorded thee of bringing visible and speedy help where help is almost despaired of. Come to my assistance in this great need, that I may receive the consolations and succor of heaven in all my necessities, tribulations and sufferings, particularly (mention your request), and that I may bless God with thee and all the elect throughout eternity. I promise thee, O blessed St. Jude, to be ever mindful of this great favor, and I will never cease to honor thee as my special and powerful patron, and to do all in my power to encourage devotion to thee. Amen
__________________
Randy + † +
Tiber Swim Team - Class of '79 (excuse me...that's 19 79, you whippersnappers!)

Nehemiah 2:17
“You see the trouble we are in: Jerusalem lies in ruins, and its gates have been burned with fire. Come, let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, and we will no longer be in disgrace.”
Reply With Quote
  #812  
Old Feb 23, '09, 7:31 am
script77's Avatar
script77 script77 is offline
New Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: October 30, 2008
Posts: 74
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

[quote=Seeking12;4840874]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post

You are clueless as to what Protestants act, do or believe; part of your lack of humility, arrogance, pride and misunderstanding. You are a lousy representative for the Catholic faith, from an outside perspective. You know the saying, no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care. There is no doubt that you do not represent Christ; for no representative of Christ could act this way and upon reviewing your other posts, this is more of a game and hobby for you. I really hope you change your unbelief for your own sake.
There are many Protestant friends of mine who despise the Catholic teachings and label Catholics all sorts of unkind things. Do not look at the messenger, but the message. That said, pride is a sin, for all who are proud, regardless of denimination.
__________________
Remember the Seven Deadly sins: Pride, Envy, Anger, Lust, Gluttony, Greed and Sloth.
Reply With Quote
  #813  
Old Feb 23, '09, 8:44 am
Seeking12 Seeking12 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 14, 2009
Posts: 488
Religion: Christian
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

[quote=script77;4851989]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeking12 View Post

There are many Protestant friends of mine who despise the Catholic teachings and label Catholics all sorts of unkind things. Do not look at the messenger, but the message. That said, pride is a sin, for all who are proud, regardless of denimination.
You have to look at the whole of what lead up to this post. I appreciate Real because he/she does not hold back; but sometimes he/she goes way too overboard. We are not here, I hope, to bash anothers religion or faith; but hopefully to refute error. Unfortunately we all make it a little personal, including myself.

I do not know a Catholic person that I do not like or would say I dislike and the people at my own church that have come out of the system would all agree that they thought they knew Jesus, but were actually trying to work their way to Him. But you could put that around the other way and have some that came from a Protestant background and went to the Catholic Church and say they now know Jesus. God will sort all that out at the end of everyone's lives if not sooner.
Reply With Quote
  #814  
Old Feb 23, '09, 9:09 am
Peter J's Avatar
Peter J Peter J is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2008
Posts: 10,334
Religion: non- Non-Catholic
Post Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeking12 View Post
You have to look at the whole of what lead up to this post. I appreciate Real because he/she does not hold back; but sometimes he/she goes way too overboard. We are not here, I hope, to bash anothers religion or faith; but hopefully to refute error. Unfortunately we all make it a little personal, including myself.
I think I know what you mean, Seeking12.

I don't want to bash Protestants, but if I did I would at least try to be open and honest about it, rather than trying to "sneak it in" amidst a bunch of sugar-coated words.
__________________
- Peter Jericho

"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other"
- the Balamand Statement

Inklings group
Reply With Quote
  #815  
Old Feb 23, '09, 11:45 pm
Realcatholicgk Realcatholicgk is offline
Regular Member
Greeter
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2008
Posts: 1,313
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Thanks for the link, Realcatholicgk. I was a bit skeptical of your claim before, but now that you have dailymail.co.uk backing you up ... well, that really showed me, didn't it?


Hi PeteJ,
Cute! How about
Click on; Fox News or

Click on: US A Today?

It was all over the World News buddy, I didn't make it up neither did dailymail.co.uk! The Pope backs it up!

In the document - formulated as five questions and answers - the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the Pope himself wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

In the new document and an accompanying commentary - which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy's Dolomite mountains - the Vatican repeated that position.

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one Church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession - the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.

The Rev. Sara MacVane of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the new document.

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope - a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of Primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular Church," the commentary said.

Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

The document, signed by the congregation prefect, American Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul - a major ecumenical feast day.

The truth is the truth peterJ!


God Bless
__________________
"You can't say you are a Christian if you aren't a Catholic

Why? Because you just aren't following Jesus!
Reply With Quote
  #816  
Old Feb 24, '09, 12:00 am
Realcatholicgk Realcatholicgk is offline
Regular Member
Greeter
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2008
Posts: 1,313
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by guanophore View Post
You are right. This is not Catholic, and it is hurtful. It misrepresnts the Church founded by Jesus, and adds division and wounds to HIs Body.
Hi Guan,

Actualy it is! It is Roman Catholic. The truth may hurt but it remains the truth! Protestants misrepresewnt themselves as members of the body of christ in their practices! Do you actually believe anyone who: Deny the Trinity of God; Reject His truths for words written in a corrupt version of scriptures; Refuse to acknowledge Christ's church; Deny His existance in the Eucharist; Reject His mother; Denys the saints, and who are following false teachings going exactly opposite of what Jesus taught can be saved through their own means?

Or perhaps like me, do you think that their valid Baptism made them Catholics and only through the grace of God they may become worthy of the promises of Christ, just like we other Catholics may?

We are to witness the truth and the truth only! God will judge who is worthy for salvation. Our job is to become the best Christian we can become. And the only way that will ever happen is through the teachings of the Catholic church! They are being taught false teachings!

Am I lying?

I pray for the conversion of all sinners and for the end of abortion daily. I ask others to do the same in Jesus' name!

God Bless
__________________
"You can't say you are a Christian if you aren't a Catholic

Why? Because you just aren't following Jesus!
Reply With Quote
  #817  
Old Feb 24, '09, 12:42 am
Realcatholicgk Realcatholicgk is offline
Regular Member
Greeter
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2008
Posts: 1,313
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeking12 View Post
You are clueless as to what Protestants act, do or believe; part of your lack of humility, arrogance, pride and misunderstanding. You are a lousy representative for the Catholic faith, from an outside perspective. You know the saying, no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care. There is no doubt that you do not represent Christ; for no representative of Christ could act this way and upon reviewing your other posts, this is more of a game and hobby for you. I really hope you change your unbelief for your own sake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by script77 View Post
There are many Protestant friends of mine who despise the Catholic teachings and label Catholics all sorts of unkind things. Do not look at the messenger, but the message. That said, pride is a sin, for all who are proud, regardless of denomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeking12 View Post
You have to look at the whole of what lead up to this post. I appreciate Real because he/she does not hold back; but sometimes he/she goes way too overboard. We are not here, I hope, to bash anothers religion or faith; but hopefully to refute error. Unfortunately we all make it a little personal, including myself.

I do not know a Catholic person that I do not like or would say I dislike and the people at my own church that have come out of the system would all agree that they thought they knew Jesus, but were actually trying to work their way to Him. But you could put that around the other way and have some that came from a Protestant background and went to the Catholic Church and say they now know Jesus. God will sort all that out at the end of everyone's lives if not sooner.

Hi guys,

I have no pride, I have no hate. I am but a servant of my lord and savior Jesus Christ! What I say I only say with love and concern for the other children of God who are being mislead by Satan. I will not lie. I will not deceive. I will not judge anyone. Seeking12: I am a 64 year old male! I am here to speak the truth! Not to bash anyone. False beliefs are false and must be stamped under our feet! All people are children of god and deserve salvation. Jesus died so each and everyone of us may obtain eternal life. We can only do that by following Him. The scary thing to you should be what a wise man once said: "God will sort all that out at the end of everyone's lives, if not sooner"


Scriptures clearly supports everything I say and the beliefs of the Catholic church. The words in scruptures are harsher than any words I use.

All *groups* that call themselves Christians and aren't Catholics are false and their doctrines, dogmas and beliefs are all twisted and corrupted Catholic truths! It is that simple and that obvious.

The more people study history, the clearer it becomes. And at Judgment day, I want everyone to be able to say "Yea, God, I was warned" as He reads your final Judgment. "In the end, forever, you and I will be in Heaven or Hell. Period." ~ Fr John Corapi I want us all to get to Heaven! This is no hobby or game to me, it is about saving lives!

Prior to 1517AD, there was One Christian Church. "ONE" with several different sects. They in fact are still firmly together even today!

While some good people were attempting to right some very wrong practices in the Church, Satan saw this as a change to infecte the Christian church and steal souls from God.

It worked, today there are 33,000 counterfeit groups calling themselves Christians. These denominations, or non-denominations with over 28,000 sub denominations, or various associations, conferences, conventions, fellowships, groups, sect, cults, unions, potlucks or whatever are all imitations of eachother and the real Christian church!. All together, there are around 61,000 phony *groups* having about 1,375 combinations of doctrines and dogmas.

Now, please remember that all of them partially "agree with the CC" and all of them partially "disgree with the CC".

So I ask you! You people who are so much smarter than I could ever hope to be ~ who the heck is right? The one holy catholic and apostolic church that has taught only the truth for 2,000 years, refusing to compromise the truth and remained faithful to Jesus teachings even if it meant lossing many souls to Satan during the reformation, or any one of the newly formed 61,000 false *groups* teaching over 1,375 doctrines and leading people away from Jesus' real church?

Remember, you can copy money but if it doesn't have the backing of the authorized issurer it is counterfeit. It can't be spent to buy anything!

You can copy Christianity, but if it doesn't have the backing of the Holy Catholic Church it is counterfeit. It can't be used to obtain salvation!

Read John Chapter 6. Absorb what Jesus says! Remember only the Catholic Church offers the real communion. Now, why would Protestant groups deny the turth of Jesus' words. Why call Him a liar? The Eucharist is one of the 7 sacraments that Jesus left His church. Not 2 or 3 or 4 but 7. Seven is the Jewish number for "wholeness" and "completeness"! Jesus made 7 sacraments for a reason! In the Eucharist, Jesus is present both Physically and Spiritually. He is "Completely" present. Praise be to God!
Think about it, your Lord and God is present for you to worship. You can eat His Body and Drink His blood as He commanded you must do in order to obtain eternal salvation. Only Catholics can do this! Only real believers seem to understand the truth because the devil keeps his followers blinded to the truth!

None are as blind as those who refuse to see!

"When you crash against the rock, you will not damage the rock but you will hurt yourself." Fr John Corapi. Read Matt 16:18, There you will find the truth!

You are all in my prayers daily!


God Bless
__________________
"You can't say you are a Christian if you aren't a Catholic

Why? Because you just aren't following Jesus!

Last edited by Realcatholicgk; Feb 24, '09 at 12:59 am.
Reply With Quote
  #818  
Old Feb 24, '09, 7:32 am
Peter J's Avatar
Peter J Peter J is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2008
Posts: 10,334
Religion: non- Non-Catholic
Post Re: Proof for praying to saints

Realcatholicgk,

Feel free to start a "If you aren't following the RCC you aren't a Christian" thread, if you want to, but I don't plan to participate on it.

(To repeat what I said on another thread ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
I agree that we can't police or censor the internet. But I can decide that I, personally, am not going to participate on any threads or blogs that are given to Catholic-bashing [or misrepresenting Catholicism], Orthodox-bashing, or Protestant-bashing. If enough people make that decision, than those threads/blogs would lose their effectiveness (without actually being censored).
)
__________________
- Peter Jericho

"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other"
- the Balamand Statement

Inklings group
Reply With Quote
  #819  
Old Feb 24, '09, 7:47 am
Realcatholicgk Realcatholicgk is offline
Regular Member
Greeter
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2008
Posts: 1,313
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Realcatholicgk,

Feel free to start a "If you aren't following the RCC you aren't a Christian" thread, if you want to, but I don't plan to participate on it.

(To repeat what I said on another thread ...

Hi PeteJ,

Excellent point, then we wouldn't have to waste time typing!

__________________
"You can't say you are a Christian if you aren't a Catholic

Why? Because you just aren't following Jesus!
Reply With Quote
  #820  
Old Feb 24, '09, 8:05 am
Bastoune Bastoune is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Posts: 117
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

[quote=Seeking12;4852350]
Quote:
Originally Posted by script77 View Post

You have to look at the whole of what lead up to this post. I appreciate Real because he/she does not hold back; but sometimes he/she goes way too overboard. We are not here, I hope, to bash anothers religion or faith; but hopefully to refute error. Unfortunately we all make it a little personal, including myself.

I do not know a Catholic person that I do not like or would say I dislike and the people at my own church that have come out of the system would all agree that they thought they knew Jesus, but were actually trying to work their way to Him. But you could put that around the other way and have some that came from a Protestant background and went to the Catholic Church and say they now know Jesus. God will sort all that out at the end of everyone's lives if not sooner.
I would say that the Catholics who thought they had to "work" their way to salvation were clueless about what the Church really teaches. Catholics who leave the Church are always ones who had no clue about what the Church really teaches -- they get brainwashed by fundamentalist theologies to which they fall prey because they rebel due to their own egos.

Luther was a similar case. When he said that the Scripture was "so obvious" on justification by faith alone, Erasmus asked how such a doctrine being so obvious was MISSED by so many for so many years. And when the Anabaptists decided to break away from Luther because they found infant baptism anti-biblical, it was "obvious" to them they were right and "obvious" to Luther from the same Bible that they were wrong.

I don't see anyone bashing you... I think maybe you're looking for a fight. Why not just settle down and pray.

Section 1996 of the Catechism says:

Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. (Jn 4:14; 7:38-39.)

Sections 161-162 the Catechism says:

(161) "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation ...therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification...(162) Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man...

The Catechism also talks about our response to faith, (sections 161-162 and 1997-2000) which is to go out into the world and do as Jesus would have us do (2 Tim 4:7; Mk 13:13; Jam 1:2/2:14-16; Mt 7:20/10:22/24:13; Heb 11:6; 2 Cor. 5:10; etc.)

But I am digressing from the thread.

My brother, my child -- relax. No one here is attacking you. And if someone does, do not respond with a lack of charity.
Reply With Quote
  #821  
Old Feb 25, '09, 11:42 pm
guanophore's Avatar
guanophore guanophore is offline
Forum Elder
Prayer Warrior
Radio Club Member
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: February 14, 2007
Posts: 27,641
Religion: Catholic, Obl.OSB
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Hi Guan,

Actualy it is! It is Roman Catholic. The truth may hurt but it remains the truth!
No, GK, it is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Don't be foolish! If you aren't following the RCC you aren't a Christian PERIOD! It is that simple.
It is bigoted to disregard the 22 Rites of the Catholic Church that are not "Roman". All these Catholics are just as much in communion with the Bishop of Rome as the Latins.

It is also bigoted to purport that those who are not Catholic Christians are not believers in Christ. This contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Not only that, but the Protestants do follow, for the most part, the the RCC. They are only separated to the extent that they deny RCC doctrine. Most of it they do accept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
The desire of your heart means nothing without the action of your soul!
Most non Catholic Christians are very fervent in their faith, and do desire to follow Christ with all their heart, mind, soul and strength.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
No other faith has the real physical presense of Jesus Christ in their services.
This is also a falsehood, and contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
All any Protestant groups have is the spiritual presence of Christ that he promised when two or more gathered in His name. .
Although this is less than He desired, it should not be minimized. Jesus desires to draw all unto Himself, and the CAtholic Church teaches that the HS works through these ecclesial communities to do just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Protestants misrepresewnt themselves as members of the body of christ in their practices!
Not purposefully, though. Those who are validly baptized are members of His body, and the Catholic Church accepts their baptisms as valid, therefore, saying that they are not is contradicting the teaching of the Church.

Yes, some of their practices take them away from the One Church. However, your refusal to acknowlege what Holy Mother Church has declared as valuable and good in our separated brethren is wounding the Body further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Do you actually believe anyone who: Deny the Trinity of God; Reject His truths for words written in a corrupt version of scriptures; Refuse to acknowledge Christ's church; Deny His existance in the Eucharist; Reject His mother; Denys the saints, and who are following false teachings going exactly opposite of what Jesus taught can be saved through their own means?
No. God saves them by His grace, just as He does us. Those who deny the Trinity cannot be considered Christian. Those who have a corrupt version of the scriptures often do not even know that they do, and are doing the best they can with the one they have.

They have been given a deficient understanding of the Church, through no fault of their own.

They have not had the benefit of God's revelation about His mother, and are inadquately educated about the saints because they were given a deficient understanding of the church. In spite of all these shortcomings, many of them are fervent in following what they have been given. They are like Apollos in the book of Acts, and should be approached as Paul demonstrated, rather than with bigotry and falsehoods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Or perhaps like me, do you think that their valid Baptism made them Catholics and only through the grace of God they may become worthy of the promises of Christ, just like we other Catholics may?
Valid baptism is not always followed by proper catechesis, whether one is Catholic, or not. If you are willing to acknowledge that they have received valid baptism, then it is wrong to say that "you aren't a Christian PERIOD!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
We are to witness the truth and the truth only! God will judge who is worthy for salvation. Our job is to become the best Christian we can become.
I agree. I don't think that means misrepresenting the Catholic faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
And the only way that will ever happen is through the teachings of the Catholic church! They are being taught false teachings!
This will not be corrected by giving out false teachings of your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Am I lying?
I do not think so. A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive others. I believe that you honestly embrace the fallacies that you post here. I believe that you are an honest bigot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
I pray for the conversion of all sinners and for the end of abortion daily. I ask others to do the same in Jesus' name!
A noble quest. Had you considered confining yourself to it?
__________________
"The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).



Reply With Quote
  #822  
Old Feb 26, '09, 12:00 am
guanophore's Avatar
guanophore guanophore is offline
Forum Elder
Prayer Warrior
Radio Club Member
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: February 14, 2007
Posts: 27,641
Religion: Catholic, Obl.OSB
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
I have no pride, I have no hate.
It may not seem that way to you, but those of us who read your posts perceive it differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
I am but a servant of my lord and savior Jesus Christ! What I say I only say with love and concern for the other children of God who are being mislead by Satan. I will not lie. I will not deceive. I will not judge anyone.
Clearly you have judged, as evidenced by the post before this one. I believe that you misrepresent Catholicism in all sincerity. You believe what you are saying, and do so believing that you are speaking the truth. This cannot be equated with deception, as you are not making a deliberate attempt to mislead, but are misled yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
False beliefs are false and must be stamped under our feet! All people are children of god and deserve salvation. Jesus died so each and everyone of us may obtain eternal life. We can only do that by following Him. The scary thing to you should be what a wise man once said: "God will sort all that out at the end of everyone's lives, if not sooner"
From your posts, it appears that you have taken over the job, and have already started the sorting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Scriptures clearly supports everything I say and the beliefs of the Catholic church. The words in scruptures are harsher than any words I use.
Your statements do not accurately represent either the Scripture, or the Teaching of the Church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
All *groups* that call themselves Christians and aren't Catholics are false and their doctrines, dogmas and beliefs are all twisted and corrupted Catholic truths! It is that simple and that obvious.
I am sure in your mind that it is that simple, and that obvious. However, the Catholic Church teaches differently. The Church teaches that many truths can be found in these ecclesial communities, and that the HS works within them to bring people to Himself. To the extent that they hold the doctrines, dogmas, and beliefs of the Apostolic faith, they are not twisted or corrupted. You seem to be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
This is no hobby or game to me, it is about saving lives!
If that is the case, you might consider forfeiting one of those nightcaps and spending a little more time with the Catechism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Prior to 1517AD, there was One Christian Church. "ONE" with several different sects. They in fact are still firmly together even today!
I think such a statement minimzes the Great Schism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
It worked, today there are 33,000 counterfeit groups calling themselves Christians.
Such a statement again reveals a rebellion against the teaching of the Church, by failing to recognize valid baptism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
or whatever are all imitations of eachother and the real Christian church!. All together, there are around 61,000 phony *groups* having about 1,375 combinations of doctrines and dogmas.
This is your opinion, GK. The Catholic Church teaches that many of the Apostolic Truths can be found within all of them, to a greater or lesser degree, and that the HS works through them to bring souls to Himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Now, please remember that all of them partially "agree with the CC" and all of them partially "disgree with the CC".
This being the case, it makes more sense to validate what is true, instead of disparaging all of them entirely, and calling them "counterfeit". Most of these persons are doing the best they can with what they have, albeit deficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Remember, you can copy money but if it doesn't have the backing of the authorized issurer it is counterfeit. It can't be spent to buy anything!
A good proof that your analogy is inaccurate. Since the Catholic Church teaches infallibly, and that teaching is that many truths exist in the Protestant ecclesial communities, and that the HS uses these communities to draw people to Himself, it is clear that "real" currency does exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
You can copy Christianity, but if it doesn't have the backing of the Holy Catholic Church it is counterfeit. It can't be used to obtain salvation!
Such a statement contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church and is, therefore, false.

In fact, the Catholic Church validates the truths and valid baptisms that exist among our separated brethren.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
None are as blind as those who refuse to see!
This is true. I have posted this to you so many times, I am ready to save it in a text file, as I do rebuttals to my recalcitrant separated brethren.
__________________
"The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).



Reply With Quote
  #823  
Old Jul 22, '13, 7:06 am
Phil Ratliff Phil Ratliff is offline
Observing Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2013
Posts: 4
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandusky View Post
Where I come from, this is called "quibbling."

Go back through the OT, and note to whom the righteous address all prayer. Continue that notation in the NT.
Hah. Sandusky is all over the map.

Elizabeth, it's a simple concept. We Christians pray for one another. We are in communion with all saints, those on earth and those in heaven. The prayers of the righteous are especially effective. "Praying to the saints," that is, asking saints in heaven to pray for you, is the practice of the earliest Christians. From a personal perspective, it is a very lovely, effective spiritual discipline that has grown rich with time. Worshipping a God whose heavenly court is filled with glorious saints makes God that much more awe inspiring. This is how God has chosen to reveal himself, through the words, acts of his people as we are in communion with one another. It's quite beautiful.
Reply With Quote
  #824  
Old Jul 22, '13, 7:44 am
Phil Ratliff Phil Ratliff is offline
Observing Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2013
Posts: 4
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Proof for praying to saints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcatholicgk View Post
Hi guys,

I have no pride, I have no hate. I am but a servant of my lord and savior Jesus Christ! What I say I only say with love and concern for the other children of God who are being mislead by Satan. I will not lie. I will not deceive. I will not judge anyone. Seeking12: I am a 64 year old male! I am here to speak the truth! Not to bash anyone. False beliefs are false and must be stamped under our feet! All people are children of god and deserve salvation. Jesus died so each and everyone of us may obtain eternal life. We can only do that by following Him. The scary thing to you should be what a wise man once said: "God will sort all that out at the end of everyone's lives, if not sooner"


Scriptures clearly supports everything I say and the beliefs of the Catholic church. The words in scruptures are harsher than any words I use.

All *groups* that call themselves Christians and aren't Catholics are false and their doctrines, dogmas and beliefs are all twisted and corrupted Catholic truths! It is that simple and that obvious.

The more people study history, the clearer it becomes. And at Judgment day, I want everyone to be able to say "Yea, God, I was warned" as He reads your final Judgment. "In the end, forever, you and I will be in Heaven or Hell. Period." ~ Fr John Corapi I want us all to get to Heaven! This is no hobby or game to me, it is about saving lives!

Prior to 1517AD, there was One Christian Church. "ONE" with several different sects. They in fact are still firmly together even today!

While some good people were attempting to right some very wrong practices in the Church, Satan saw this as a change to infecte the Christian church and steal souls from God.

It worked, today there are 33,000 counterfeit groups calling themselves Christians. These denominations, or non-denominations with over 28,000 sub denominations, or various associations, conferences, conventions, fellowships, groups, sect, cults, unions, potlucks or whatever are all imitations of eachother and the real Christian church!. All together, there are around 61,000 phony *groups* having about 1,375 combinations of doctrines and dogmas.

Now, please remember that all of them partially "agree with the CC" and all of them partially "disgree with the CC".

So I ask you! You people who are so much smarter than I could ever hope to be ~ who the heck is right? The one holy catholic and apostolic church that has taught only the truth for 2,000 years, refusing to compromise the truth and remained faithful to Jesus teachings even if it meant lossing many souls to Satan during the reformation, or any one of the newly formed 61,000 false *groups* teaching over 1,375 doctrines and leading people away from Jesus' real church?

Remember, you can copy money but if it doesn't have the backing of the authorized issurer it is counterfeit. It can't be spent to buy anything!

You can copy Christianity, but if it doesn't have the backing of the Holy Catholic Church it is counterfeit. It can't be used to obtain salvation!

Read John Chapter 6. Absorb what Jesus says! Remember only the Catholic Church offers the real communion. Now, why would Protestant groups deny the turth of Jesus' words. Why call Him a liar? The Eucharist is one of the 7 sacraments that Jesus left His church. Not 2 or 3 or 4 but 7. Seven is the Jewish number for "wholeness" and "completeness"! Jesus made 7 sacraments for a reason! In the Eucharist, Jesus is present both Physically and Spiritually. He is "Completely" present. Praise be to God!
Think about it, your Lord and God is present for you to worship. You can eat His Body and Drink His blood as He commanded you must do in order to obtain eternal salvation. Only Catholics can do this! Only real believers seem to understand the truth because the devil keeps his followers blinded to the truth!

None are as blind as those who refuse to see!

"When you crash against the rock, you will not damage the rock but you will hurt yourself." Fr John Corapi. Read Matt 16:18, There you will find the truth!

You are all in my prayers daily!


God Bless
The real Catholic view on salvation outside the Church is much more nuanced than you're presenting, real Catholic.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8569Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Kellyreneeomara
5241CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4436Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3893Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3876SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany
3460Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3318Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3237Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3170For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: flower lady



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 7:23 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.