Angels in OT vs Angels in Quran.

[Sam_777]

Originally Posted by Steven John

Hi Sam i trust The One True God is blessing you on your faith journey and no men are leading you astray, Blessings 2 ya bro

Hi brother Steven , long time no seen , what is your opinion about the difference in Angels power between Judaism and Islam.

[Steven John]

Originally Posted by Sam_777

Hi brother Steven , long time no seen , what is your opinion about the difference in Angels power between Judaism and Islam.

I dont really have one, i guess i have just left intercession to God / Allah, it is Him i pray to and Him i trust.

I need to read this whole thread but have not yet made time hope to by tomorrow.

I do have a thought that i need to pray on. From a Christian perspective when the vail was torn things really changed.

I think many dead were raised or graves were made open.

I guess if the vail was torn many things that were hidden from us would now be seen. In that light what was allowed seen in the OT time would not be the same as what would be seen in NT times.

That would make sense of the question in the post.

Please dont all beat me for offering this, as stated it is a guess if prayer brings me insight i will offer it and if youes dont like it you can beat me then.

Love ya all,
may Allah bless and guide you all.

Stay well Brother sorry i dont have more to contribute

[neploho]

Originally Posted by dzheremi

What the Vatican would think of what I have written is not really the issue here, is it? As far as I have read, the Vatican recognizes the divine authorship of God through all the books, and willingly concedes that they were physically written by men. The Bible is not some book that just fell out of the sky one day. The kind of false dichotomy you are trying to impose on my post is alien to official Vatican documents such as the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (Dei Verbum), which contains statements such as the following:



(source)

You'll forgive me now, I hope, if I maintain the idea that the Bible was written down by certain people of certain cultures in certain places at certain times. There is nothing "heretical" about that. If we're talking about the Old Testament, the people doing the writing would have been Jews. So, yes, the Old Testament is most definitely a Jewish "cultural document" AND the word of God.

"The Qur'an is as well"...hmmm...well, I certainly will concede that is a cultural document, but I do not think it is of divine origin. I don't see any contradiction in holding that what is true of the Bible is not true of the Qur'an. Muslims would say the same thing about the Bible in comparison to the Qur'an, so I don't think I'm being unfair or mean-spirited.

You need to reread the antecedent of my first assertion in that post. Then you will understand why these quotations have nothing to do with my point, nor are they in any way contradictory to it.

[dzheremi]

Or you could just come out and tell me what you mean, because I am apparently not understanding you. You wrote that if my claim is that the OT is a 'culturally produced document' and not of divine revelation, then the distinction that I've made is valid. I replied to the contrary, that it is in fact both at the same time, and provided documentation that my view is NOT heretical as you suggested, but actually in line with the thinking of the Vatican. Now you claim that what I've written in reply is not relevant.to whatever your point is.

Alright, sir or ma'am....you've stumped me. What is your point?

[neploho]

Originally Posted by dzheremi

Or you could just come out and tell me what you mean, because I am apparently not understanding you. You wrote that if my claim is that the OT is a 'culturally produced document' and not of divine revelation, then the distinction that I've made is valid. I replied to the contrary, that it is in fact both at the same time, and provided documentation that my view is NOT heretical as you suggested, but actually in line with the thinking of the Vatican. Now you claim that what I've written in reply is not relevant.to whatever your point is.

Alright, sir or ma'am....you've stumped me. What is your point?

The crucial qualification was that the text are not the result of divine revelation and solely a cultural production of the Jewish people.

If the origins of the Old Testament lie with the Jewish people that is it is a culturally produced document and not the result of divine revelation and the Qur’an is as well then your distinction is legitimate.


It is a conditional statement. The antecedent is the proposition "the origins of the Old Testament lie with the Jewish people" and made a conjunctive qualification of that statement 'the it is a culturally produced text and not the product of divine revelation'. You provided documentation that the conjunctive proposition that the Old Testament is both a culturally produced document and the result of divine revelation. I am well aware that this view is kosher with the church which is why I was specific to make my qualification that it was solely a cultural produced text and not a divine revelation at all. Such a view is not acceptable in the eyes of the Vatican as far as I know.

[dzheremi]

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure why we just had this conversation, since I never claimed to begin with that the OT is only a 'culturally produced document', but I'm glad we can put it to rest now. Peace.

[Steven John]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Sam_777

YHWH in the OT only needed one Angel to fulfil His prosecution on 185000 Assyrian soldiers, (Isaiah 37:36), while in Islam Allah needed 5000 angels plus 313 Muslims to fight around 1000 men of Quraish tribe, but together they were able to kill 70 men only, (Quran 3:125).

I wonder why the big difference between the two !!!

peace and blessings to you all,

I have prayed many times since my last post. I have prayed with both Christians and Muslims.

Assuming one is in right relationship with My Father and are asking what is of His will.

This is a question of faith, if you have enough faith you can move a mountain into an ocean.

If you have faith that you see one angel can bring victory over large numbers of enemy then what kind of believer would question God does such?

If you have faith that you see many angels will be sent to help in a battle with your enemy's in small numbers what kind of believer would question God does such?

Angels are spirit beings they are nearer and further from My Father, in our understanding this is in ranks. They are many in number, to numerous for me to count.

As spirit beings the form we perceive them in varies, My Father knows your heart.

They ascend and descend as God wills, they serve us by His will. There are so many here but the veils are between us and them. Veils are what obstruct us from seeing them. We do not have to have veils as purity as it was b4 Adam (pbuh) sinned has been restored. Sin no more know my Fathers infiniteness you become aware and may see them all. At times my Father has the veil lifted to His glorify.

The answer of my mind to the two questions i asked here is either a wolf in sheep's clothing or one who is not solid in the second commandment Jesus (pbwh) gave.

I pray this post help us to grow in love.

I will be who i will be, you have free will to choose who you see I am.

[Muslim Woman]

In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful




[quote=Steven John;5060461]

I have prayed with both Christians and Muslims.

How did u pray with Muslims ? U went to any mosque ?

If you have faith that you see many angels will be sent to help in a battle with your enemy's in small numbers what kind of believer would question God does such?

I pray this post help us to grow in love.

If any Christian writes any post without bashing Islam , it's so hard to believe . I get confused -- If I read the full post correctly or bashing is there but somehow I missed it

Looks like no , there is no bashing in your post , thanks