Gay Catholics Don't Expect Vatican Change

[stumbler]

By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer

NEW YORK - Roman Catholic gay-rights activists don't expect a new pope to suddenly scrap the church's condemnation of homosexuality, but they do hope — cautiously — for a softening of stern Vatican rhetoric and an acceleration of grass-roots moves in some U.S. parishes to make them feel more welcome.

"We're realists — we're not going to have someone running out of this conclave as pope and all of sudden everything is perfect," said Sam Sinnett, president of the national gay Catholic organization Dignity USA. "We do hope there will be a little more listening, and an end to the virulence of the anti-gay language."

As many Catholics worldwide joined in reverential mourning for Pope John Paul II, Sinnett and other advocates were among a relatively small chorus of dissent. They noted that the pope not only embraced traditional Vatican disapproval of homosexuality, but added what they considered a personal swipe in his last book, "Memory and Identity," in which he suggested that the push to recognize same-sex unions represented an "ideology of evil."
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Full Article

[stumbler]

Quote:

The Rev. Robert Silva, president of the Chicago-based National Federation of Priests' Councils, said activists should not expect changes in doctrine, but he did suggest that a shift in the Vatican's rhetorical tone would be welcome.

"The moral dimension of homosexuality is pretty clear over a 2000-year tradition of Catholic teaching — homosexual acts will never, ever be accepted as moral," Silva said. "But it's important to distinguish between the act and the person. A person who finds discovers himself to be gay is not a bad person. They must always be treated with justice and charity."

[stumbler]

Quote:

But to activists, a change in language is insufficient. "We now know without a doubt that homosexuality is a natural variation of human sexuality, but the Vatican is not there yet," Sinnett said. "The church's teachings ... are arrested in a juvenile stage."

[geezerbob]

I read this earlier today. It is totally a non-story. I can't understand why the MSM continues to publish such garbage.

[stumbler]

News, for the MSM, is about "conflict." An old saw in the news biz was that "If there is no news, go make some." These days it's not so hard to manufacturer a controversy. There are a slew of groups on the left that are willing to oblige.

It's not too hard to imagine that if the story was about the "conflict" between Jesus and Satan, Satan would get a rather sympathetic reading from the MSM (Jesus being "so dogmatic" and Satan being "harshly judged" and all ). Being "fair" has little to do with finding truth.

[HagiaSophia]

Originally Posted by geezerbob

I read this earlier today. It is totally a non-story. I can't understand why the MSM continues to publish such garbage.

Becasue as Fr. Neuhaus put it this evening they are starved for news to send back to their media and they are creatively working to create" filler copy" until conclave -- when they will mention the chimney about 25 times in each dispatch and then sigh -- will come the dissection of the personality who is elected. Predictable.

[dumspirospero]

Hold up...isn't this an oxymoron???? "Roman Catholic and Gay"...in the same sentence????? DO I need to go any further???

Originally Posted by stumbler

By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer

NEW YORK - Roman Catholic gay-rights activists don't expect a new pope to suddenly scrap the church's condemnation of homosexuality, but they do hope — cautiously — for a softening of stern Vatican rhetoric and an acceleration of grass-roots moves in some U.S. parishes to make them feel more welcome.

"We're realists — we're not going to have someone running out of this conclave as pope and all of sudden everything is perfect," said Sam Sinnett, president of the national gay Catholic organization Dignity USA. "We do hope there will be a little more listening, and an end to the virulence of the anti-gay language."

As many Catholics worldwide joined in reverential mourning for Pope John Paul II, Sinnett and other advocates were among a relatively small chorus of dissent. They noted that the pope not only embraced traditional Vatican disapproval of homosexuality, but added what they considered a personal swipe in his last book, "Memory and Identity," in which he suggested that the push to recognize same-sex unions represented an "ideology of evil."
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Full Article

[Catholic Dude]

Originally Posted by dumspirospero

Hold up...isn't this an oxymoron???? "Roman Catholic and Gay"...in the same sentence????? DO I need to go any further???

You could take it one step further and call it what it really is, Roman Catholic and Sodomite. The word gay is one level of confusion they like to add, I use the real word all the time and it lets those guys know we know what they are really up to.

[m134e5]

Originally Posted by stumbler

gay Catholic organization Dignity USA.

DignityUSA is not a Catholic organization. It is not recognized by the Church. Furthermore, their website includes links to altar bread recipes that would invalidate the Mass. Courage is a Catholic organization- the only apostolate of its kind that is recognized by the Church. I'm not surprised they didn't ask anyone from there to speak.

[Lisa N]

What I'd like to know is how the homosexual "Catholic" activists think that the Church is going to create a different doctrine regarding homosexuality? Where will they find support? The Bible? Tradition? Early Church fathers? I don't THEEEENK SO!

This is where I am baffled by the seeming desperation of certain Protestant churches to "welcome" open and practicing homosexuals. Particularly the UCC seems to really be trolling for homosexuals to fill their pews. Our local UCC has a huge banner welcoming people regardless of "sexual orientation" as the very first criteria.

I keep asking my Episcopalian friends where in the Bible does it suggest that being a homoesexual is no different than being a heterosexual?

Anyone know where they get the justification for changing two thousand years of teaching?

Lisa N

[Genesis315]

Originally Posted by Lisa N

Anyone know where they get the justification for changing two thousand years of teaching?

Lisa N

It's the pervasive quasi-universalism that's running rampant in our sociey. It basically says everyone but Hitler is going to Heaven.

[chevalier]

But to activists, a change in language is insufficient. "We now know without a doubt that homosexuality is a natural variation of human sexuality, but the Vatican is not there yet," Sinnett said. "The church's teachings ... are arrested in a juvenile stage."

Apparently, they believe the same about God. After all, it's God's words that forbid homosexual acts, followed by "I am the Lord". So what are they seeking in the Church? Those people are impervious to logic.

[Funky Cedars]

Originally Posted by dumspirospero

Hold up...isn't this an oxymoron???? "Roman Catholic and Gay"...in the same sentence?????

no it isn’t, the Church is full of sinners, for the Lord who established it came on behalf of those who needed healing. fortunately, Holy Mother Church recognizes this and so has approved of the organization Courage, which assists Her children with same-sex attractions to live chaste lives in accord with Her teachings. it is by means of Her gifts, especially Reconciliation and the Eucharist, that Her poor children who misunderstand their sexual nature, as well as those who lie, steal, even murder, can successfully travel the difficult road to salvation. therefore She seeks ways to bring us home and heal us instead of condemning us before we stand in front of ‘the awesome judgment seat’ that awaits each of us.
it is incompatible to claim to be a disciple of Jesus while advocating sin; one cannot be truly Catholic and endorse an active ‘gay lifestyle’. but being Catholic and gay is no more oxymoronic than being Catholic and judgemental.

Originally Posted by Catholic Dude

You could take it one step further and call it what it really is, Roman Catholic and Sodomite. The word gay is one level of confusion they like to add, I use the real word all the time and it lets those guys know we know what they are really up to.

i must wonder if you also tell your friends and others who have married more than once that they are Adulterers and those family members and others who are enjoying sex outside of marriage that they are Fornicators, so that they also know that you know what they’re really up to, as well.
and do you then pray for them? if yes, thank you, if not, please start.
for if Catholics, who are to be Jesus to the world, are willing to express such hatred for sinners like myself and count us beyond redemption, is it any wonder that so many are inclined to reject (this ugly) jesus and hold on to our sinfulness?
if Mary, Most Pure is willing to intercede on our behalf, how can our sinful brethren see fit to act otherwise?

Christ is Risen!
God be with our Cardinals as they select the next Peter!

[JHutch]

Originally Posted by stumbler

By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer

NEW YORK - Roman Catholic gay-rights activists don't expect a new pope to suddenly scrap the church's condemnation of homosexuality...
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Full Article

Nor should anyone else.

[mtr01]

Originally Posted by Funky Cedars

no it isn’t, the Church is full of sinners, for the Lord who established it came on behalf of those who needed healing. fortunately, Holy Mother Church recognizes this and so has approved of the organization Courage, which assists Her children with same-sex attractions to live chaste lives in accord with Her teachings. it is by means of Her gifts, especially Reconciliation and the Eucharist, that Her poor children who misunderstand their sexual nature, as well as those who lie, steal, even murder, can successfully travel the difficult road to salvation. therefore She seeks ways to bring us home and heal us instead of condemning us before we stand in front of ‘the awesome judgment seat’ that awaits each of us.
it is incompatible to claim to be a disciple of Jesus while advocating sin; one cannot be truly Catholic and endorse an active ‘gay lifestyle’. but being Catholic and gay is no more oxymoronic than being Catholic and judgemental.
i must wonder if you also tell your friends and others who have married more than once that they are Adulterers and those family members and others who are enjoying sex outside of marriage that they are Fornicators, so that they also know that you know what they’re really up to, as well.
and do you then pray for them? if yes, thank you, if not, please start.
for if Catholics, who are to be Jesus to the world, are willing to express such hatred for sinners like myself and count us beyond redemption, is it any wonder that so many are inclined to reject (this ugly) jesus and hold on to our sinfulness?
if Mary, Most Pure is willing to intercede on our behalf, how can our sinful brethren see fit to act otherwise?

Christ is Risen!
God be with our Cardinals as they select the next Peter!

Excellent post