Syro-Malabar Catholic Church in the Thrissurian tradition

[lukathomas]

Arch Eparchy of Ernakulam-Angamaly- See of the Major Archbishop of Syro Malabar Church. There are FIVE Arch Eparchies Changanacherry, Trichur, Tellicherry, Kottayam and of Ernakulam-Angamaly.

Arch Eparchy of Ernakulam-Angamaly- Suffragons- Eparchies of Kothamangalam and Idukki

Arch Eparchy of Changanacherry - Suffragons- Eparchies of Palai, Kanjirapally and Thuckalay

Arch Eparchy of Tellicherry - Suffragons- Eparchies of Mananthavady, Thamarassery, Belthangady and Bhadravathi.

Arch Eparchy of Trichur - Suffragons- Eparchies of Irinjalakuda and Palghat

Arch Eparchy of Kottayam – No Suffragon

Outside Kerala eparchies are not under Syro Malabar Major Arch Bishop- These are Eparchies of Adilabad, Bijnor, Chanda, Gorakhpur, Jagdalpur, Kalyan, Rajkot, Sagar, Satna, Ujjain and St. Thomas Diocese in Chicago


NB- There is absolutely nothing in this based on any Kingdoms be it Travancore or Cochin or British Malabar. Travancore was a large kingdom, so naturally many of these diocese has some part of erstwhile Travancore Kingdom. The main topic of this thread- Thrishur area comes under the 1995 created Thrishur Arch diocese.Arch Eparchy of Tellicherry has the largest number of suffragons.

[Michael Francis]

Thread closed pending review by moderator Catherine Grant.

[Mariamkutty]

Originally Posted by pjk123

@mariamkutty:Now your posts are from frustration and abusing.regarding people who claims migrated from north paravur,kodungallur etc ,What is their with you to claim that no one migrated to down south fertile lands of Travancore?You are really a frustrated soul,clearly carrying on a propaganda and agenda on Syrian Christians and Syrian Catholics of Kottayam.Who Said All Kottayam Syrian Christians claims they are from paravoor or kodungallur or Palayyoor?Most families in Kottayam district have to do with Niranam,Nilackal Traditions.It is only the group of Syrian Christians who flooded thrissur district(Archdeacons) settled at Anagamaly which in turn became a Syrian Christian Town.Afterwards ,They Settled in Kuravilangadu.Archdeacon's Church in Kuravilagadu is well known.
This is Our version of Histoy.You have simply nothing to refute.as if you can vouch for 2000 years that nobody migrated from Paravoor ,Kodungallur etc.WRONG!

Mind You ,We don't give a damn about thrissur syro malabar.but ,You are here for trolling on this topic without anything authentic,still claiming authentic.
We ,the Travancorean Syrian Christians are land locked and are protected from mixture unlike thrissurian and ernakulam region.There is no fuss if a thrissurian/ernakulam christian marries a latin christian or even a tamil/konkani catholic.so much for authenticity.
what is their with you as claim?YOU WERE INVENTING HISTORY.Those people who are following your posts can see the way you abuse personally for the unknown frustration you have with Travancore Syrian Christians.You are here to spread propaganda.This is simply unjustifiable.

What Mr.Lukethomas told is the authentic History.Syro Malabar Catholics of Travancore(Kottayam region) are Minding their own Business Only.We were not pointing on any thrissurian thing you invented here.
STOP THE TROLL!MODS,TROLL WARNING.

It would have been best for all concerned if two separate churches had been formed in 1887 in the states of Travancore and Cochin, separately in communion with RCC, like the many churches in the Middle East, with Christians from British Raj Malabar District of North Kerala free to choose between the two. At least that way a distinction could have made between the Dutch, British, Latin Rite after Papal Congregation of Propaganda Fide versions in Travancore. All Keralites could then have been given the freedom to choose any version. Now Thrissur district gets over run by the militant imperialist types from Travancore.

If the original 1887 Vicariate of Thrissur had been made into a separate church rather than a separate diocese, a lot of suffering could have been avoided. Ancient Christians of Thrissur District would have an identity of their own in the Catholic Church. Maybe serious consideration should be given to the idea.

The priests of Portuguese Padroado should have given copies of their church records to all priests involved in the churches to dispel confusion.

The title of this thread is about Syro Malabar Catholic Church in Thrissurian Tradition.

Let people read all claims, use their common sense, look up primary historical sources and come to their own conclusions.

The militancy with which some people are making claims proves they are not authentic locals who are carriers of the ancient traditions. Authentic locals do not feel the need to go to the Middle East, after being trained in British institutions, get hold of Patriarchs in the Middle East there in the nineteenth century to use them to make all sorts of claims.

It is okay to swear allegiance to any Patriarch and form any church. But it should be done without destroying authentic traditions of locals.

Pjk123...maybe you need to stand before the mirror and repeat what you have written about trolls. Have you noticed the title of this thread by any chance?

[Mariamkutty]

My apologies Mr Francis for posting without being aware that you had closed the thread. I had been busy writing and editing my post while you had closed the thread.

The time difference between our posts should make that clear.

All review is welcome. By as many people as possible.

[mathewjoseph]

All our disputes were based on liturgy and latinisation. My demand and my request is that the Syro malabar church must adopt the following liturgy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL3Zc8jXmZw

Look how beautiful it is. It is thousands of years old and in any case it is excellent and beautiful than any of the catholic liturgies.

[Mariamkutty]

Please post reviews and feed back on the discussion of this thread on the new thread created for the purpose:

Truth & Justice Commission for Syro Malabar Catholic Church

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=393038

[SyroMalankara]

Originally Posted by mathewjoseph

All our disputes were based on liturgy and latinisation. My demand and my request is that the Syro malabar church must adopt the following liturgy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL3Zc8jXmZw

Look how beautiful it is. It is thousands of years old and in any case it is excellent and beautiful than any of the catholic liturgies.

So your response is that the Syro-Malabar Church BECOME the Syro-Malankara Church??!

The Malabar Liturgy is beautiful in its own Rite, just recover the lost elements of the Chaldean liturgy, remove latinizations and return to authentic Tradition!

[rosemary2009]

Originally Posted by mathewjoseph

Dear mariamkutty
I am a person who reads Sathyadeepam and Sunday shalom regularly. As you know Sathyadeepam is the offcial catholic weekly of the Syro amlabar church. Sunday shalom is also an authentic newspaper. I may share some of the important points I noted from those newspapers.
I will give the viewpoints of Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil, Major Arch bishop of Syro malabar catholic church,
Baselios Mor Cleemis, Major Arch bishop of syro malankara catholic church,
Archbishop Mar Joseph Powathil, strong man of Syro malabar catholic church.
What I deliver are exact statements from these bishops at the top level.

Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil says, "What is the authority of Rome? On what basis Rome is appointing bishops all over the world? From where it has got alll these powers? In the first centuries, there was a dispute between Rome and Antioch, who is head and superior."

Baselios Mor Cleemis says, "According to Antiochean tradition, Patriarch of Antioch is the head of the overall Christian church and successor of Apostle Peter. His name is Ignatius. The second in rank is Catholicos. His name is Baselius. Mar Joseph Powathil presided over my election as major arch bishop.

Mar Joseph Powathil adviced me to be sincere and faithful to Antiochean tradition and Antiochean liturgy always."

Dear mariamkutty,
These are words from top leaders of our church. So why we oppose adopting latin customs is that we are basically a syriac church and the most important point is that we have doubt on the Rome's claim as St Peter's see. Or it is not a doubt. Fro mthe words of 3 eminent persons above, what you get? Whatever be the case, we must give testimony to truth. We must be upholders of truth. I need not give explanation why Portuguese burned all the ancient syriac documents present in our church. Not only these, I will give you a statement from a latin cardinal.

The great American Archbishop James Cardinal Gibbons said, "Peter went to Antioch and established the church there and served as the bishop there. What is the authority of Rome?"

When I cited above points and requested an explanation, the thread starter, S J Thaikattil had no response. After that I didn't find her in this forum. When I asked explanations to many people on above, they at first hesitated, for example many scholars here. It is an important point. Whatever we are, we must be upholders of truth as our Lord says. I am a catholic. But in this modern world there are opportunities for finding truth.
When I asked you explanation, you said no bishop said like these. But these are exact wordings I got from catholic official papers.
You must note that we were transferred to catholic rite by force and by great influence after 1550s. The opposite party Puthenkootukar were not like that. The pleaded again and again to Antioch and only at last there was response from there. They sent a bishop. It is given that after many centuries of diconnection, Antioch started contact with church in Kerala.
Whatever be , east syriac or west syriac, here the basic question is, who is the head, Antioch or Rome?

Wow, the most excellent post in this topic. Wonderful.

[Mariamkutty]

This thread is closed. Quite unintentionally, the discussion has continued on another thread titled: Syro Malabar Church Phoenix Arizona.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=395125

[mathewjoseph]

Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil in critical condition after a heart attack. Please pray for him.