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  #1  
Old Nov 11, '09, 7:42 am
deepsouthpapist deepsouthpapist is offline
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Question Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

At first I was excited to learn of the new Anglo-Catholic structure being created to welcome home disaffected Catholics.

As a former Anglican, it would have been nice to retain some of the liturgical traditions of the Anglican service while being authentically Catholic. However, as a "visionary" that left the fold to cross the Tiber prior to this new structure, it doesn't appear that I will have the opportunity to be a part of the new structure.

My question is this - Aren't Catholics welcomed anywhere there is a church that falls under the Pope? Also, I was baptized as an Episcopalian but entered full communion with the Catholic Church in 2006. How would the information below apply to me?

Perhaps someone with a greater understanding than myself can explain the passage below.


The Faithful of the Ordinariate

Article 5

ß1. The lay faithful originally of the Anglican tradition who wish to belong to the Ordinariate, after having made their Profession of Faith and received the Sacraments of Initiation, with due regard for Canon 845, are to be entered in the apposite register of the Ordinariate. Those baptized previously as Catholics outside the Ordinariate are not ordinarily eligible for membership, unless they are members of a family belonging to the Ordinariate.
  #2  
Old Nov 11, '09, 8:08 am
Eutychus123 Eutychus123 is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist View Post
At first I was excited to learn of the new Anglo-Catholic structure being created to welcome home disaffected Catholics.

As a former Anglican, it would have been nice to retain some of the liturgical traditions of the Anglican service while being authentically Catholic. However, as a "visionary" that left the fold to cross the Tiber prior to this new structure, it doesn't appear that I will have the opportunity to be a part of the new structure.

My question is this - Aren't Catholics welcomed anywhere there is a church that falls under the Pope? Also, I was baptized as an Episcopalian but entered full communion with the Catholic Church in 2006. How would the information below apply to me?

Perhaps someone with a greater understanding than myself can explain the passage below.



The Faithful of the Ordinariate

Article 5

ß1. The lay faithful originally of the Anglican tradition who wish to belong to the Ordinariate, after having made their Profession of Faith and received the Sacraments of Initiation, with due regard for Canon 845, are to be entered in the apposite register of the Ordinariate. Those baptized previously as Catholics outside the Ordinariate are not ordinarily eligible for membership, unless they are members of a family belonging to the Ordinariate.
I think that the part you have highlighted explains it all.
  #3  
Old Nov 11, '09, 8:50 am
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Joe 5859 Joe 5859 is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

My guess is that it could be similar to the way things are with the Eastern rite Catholics in certain respects. That is, anyone would be free to attend these Anglo-Catholic Churches for Mass, Confession, etc., but joining is another matter. This sort of "rite-hopping" would be discouraged, but not completely forbidden, just as it is at present with the Eastern rites.
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The Catechesis of the Popes
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The more I follow the online discussions ... the more I follow the debates and disagreements in the Church about administrative unity, or the concerns expressed about the moral or personal or administrative or leadership failings of the bishops or the clergy, the more I become convinced that whatever might be the truth of these concerns, ALL of this is simply a distraction.

No, itís more than that. Itís a justification, an excuse, for not helping each other and those outside the Church fall in love with Jesus Christ. How easy it is to talk about everything, but about Jesus hardly at all.


- Fr. Gregory Jensen
  #4  
Old Nov 11, '09, 9:37 am
CDNowak CDNowak is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

The wording currently seems to allow for/encourage those who have converted previously to join the new ordinariates.(really we need a better name) Very few people who were baptized Catholic will be able to actually join the ordinariates initially, per the CDF restrictions. There is a possibility this will change (indeed for it to continue more than a generation or two, it will be imperative that they broaden who may join). However, as has been pointed out, a Catholic may attend any Catholic Rite or Usage.
  #5  
Old Nov 11, '09, 11:16 am
deepsouthpapist deepsouthpapist is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859 View Post
My guess is that it could be similar to the way things are with the Eastern rite Catholics in certain respects. That is, anyone would be free to attend these Anglo-Catholic Churches for Mass, Confession, etc., but joining is another matter. This sort of "rite-hopping" would be discouraged, but not completely forbidden, just as it is at present with the Eastern rites.
That makes sense...so I could go there for the sacraments but my membership is with the Latin Rite Church. I sure hope that's right! Thanks for posting.
  #6  
Old Nov 11, '09, 12:38 pm
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Joe 5859 Joe 5859 is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist View Post
That makes sense...so I could go there for the sacraments but my membership is with the Latin Rite Church. I sure hope that's right! Thanks for posting.
If my memory serves me correctly, with Eastern Rite Catholic parishes, one can even join the parish without technically leaving the Latin Rite and "joining" the Eastern Rite. More is required to officially change Rites than simply registering at the parish. I could see it being similar with these new Anglo-Catholic Ordinariates.
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The Catechesis of the Popes
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The more I follow the online discussions ... the more I follow the debates and disagreements in the Church about administrative unity, or the concerns expressed about the moral or personal or administrative or leadership failings of the bishops or the clergy, the more I become convinced that whatever might be the truth of these concerns, ALL of this is simply a distraction.

No, itís more than that. Itís a justification, an excuse, for not helping each other and those outside the Church fall in love with Jesus Christ. How easy it is to talk about everything, but about Jesus hardly at all.


- Fr. Gregory Jensen
  #7  
Old Nov 11, '09, 3:48 pm
BernadetteM BernadetteM is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859 View Post
If my memory serves me correctly, with Eastern Rite Catholic parishes, one can even join the parish without technically leaving the Latin Rite and "joining" the Eastern Rite. More is required to officially change Rites than simply registering at the parish. I could see it being similar with these new Anglo-Catholic Ordinariates.
I also converted to the Church several years ago from the Episcopal church, one of the original ones who helped to establish the Pastoral Provision. I don't see any problems with former Anglicans who had to make the choice and didn't have the option of an AU parish nearby.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I am just praying that somewhere close to me there will be an Anglican Use or what ever they decide to call it around for me to attend. There are very very few Continuing Anglican churches in So. California. And that doesn't mean too much if they aren't going to take Pope Benedict's offer. Since they won't be a rite per se you will still be considered Latin Rite. I am sure that there are many issues to be worked out when this comes into being.

I will just in God that He will provide for me.

God Bless

Bernadette
  #8  
Old Nov 11, '09, 3:52 pm
BernadetteM BernadetteM is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859 View Post
If my memory serves me correctly, with Eastern Rite Catholic parishes, one can even join the parish without technically leaving the Latin Rite and "joining" the Eastern Rite. More is required to officially change Rites than simply registering at the parish. I could see it being similar with these new Anglo-Catholic Ordinariates.

Sorry Joe my post was directed to deepsouthpapist. I was reading your response to him.

God Bless

Bernadette
  #9  
Old Nov 11, '09, 6:18 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859 View Post
If my memory serves me correctly, with Eastern Rite Catholic parishes, one can even join the parish without technically leaving the Latin Rite and "joining" the Eastern Rite. More is required to officially change Rites than simply registering at the parish. I could see it being similar with these new Anglo-Catholic Ordinariates.
Correct. One fulfills ones obligations by attending any rite. However to change rites requires permission from both bishops. Also certain sacraments must be received in ones proper rite. I think they are Confirmation, Matrimony, and Holy Orders.

I had a case of two Melkite women who wished to be confirmed and one to be married. The Melkite bishop delegated our Latin rite priest to act for him and confirm them because he had not suitable program in this area.for preparing them. However, the wedding had to be in the Melkite church; our priest con-celebrated at the wedding.
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  #10  
Old Nov 12, '09, 9:00 am
dans0622 dans0622 is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Pardon me if I misunderstand the points made earlier but the distinction between the Latin Church and any of the Eastern Churches is more significant than the distinction between the Latin rite Catholic liturgy and an Anglican rite Catholic liturgy.

It seems that now there are 4 different rites in the Latin Church (Latin [ordinary/extraordinary form], Anglican, Mozarabic, and Ambrosian. But, all are part of the Latin Church. One wouldn't "transfer" from one of these rites to another the way one does from one Church to another (Latin to Melkite, e.g.) Everyone is Latin Catholic. The difference is that, most of the time, our membership in a particular church is determined by our place of residence but there are also occasions when we, as persons, determine our membership. For example, those in the military, those belonging to personal parishes...

For those who want to be subjects of this new ordinariate, they would simply write to the ordinary and ask to be a subject, giving proof that they were once a part of the Anglican communion. From the Apostolic Constitution itself (not the norms): "IX. Both the lay faithful as well as members of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, originally part of the Anglican Communion, who wish to enter the Personal Ordinariate, must manifest this desire in writing."

I hope this is understandable. I am rushed since I've got to get to Mass...

Dan
  #11  
Old Nov 12, '09, 10:12 am
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Joe 5859 Joe 5859 is offline
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Default Re: Question regarding Anglicanorum Coetibus

Quote:
Originally Posted by dans0622 View Post
Pardon me if I misunderstand the points made earlier but the distinction between the Latin Church and any of the Eastern Churches is more significant than the distinction between the Latin rite Catholic liturgy and an Anglican rite Catholic liturgy.

It seems that now there are 4 different rites in the Latin Church (Latin [ordinary/extraordinary form], Anglican, Mozarabic, and Ambrosian. But, all are part of the Latin Church. One wouldn't "transfer" from one of these rites to another the way one does from one Church to another (Latin to Melkite, e.g.) Everyone is Latin Catholic. The difference is that, most of the time, our membership in a particular church is determined by our place of residence but there are also occasions when we, as persons, determine our membership. For example, those in the military, those belonging to personal parishes...

For those who want to be subjects of this new ordinariate, they would simply write to the ordinary and ask to be a subject, giving proof that they were once a part of the Anglican communion. From the Apostolic Constitution itself (not the norms): "IX. Both the lay faithful as well as members of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, originally part of the Anglican Communion, who wish to enter the Personal Ordinariate, must manifest this desire in writing."

I hope this is understandable. I am rushed since I've got to get to Mass...

Dan
Thanks for the clarification. I was bringing up the Eastern Churches for comparitive purposes only. I didn't mean to imply that the Anglican Communion would be a separate rite all its own.
__________________
Joe (Average Joe Catholic)


The Catechesis of the Popes
__________________
The more I follow the online discussions ... the more I follow the debates and disagreements in the Church about administrative unity, or the concerns expressed about the moral or personal or administrative or leadership failings of the bishops or the clergy, the more I become convinced that whatever might be the truth of these concerns, ALL of this is simply a distraction.

No, itís more than that. Itís a justification, an excuse, for not helping each other and those outside the Church fall in love with Jesus Christ. How easy it is to talk about everything, but about Jesus hardly at all.


- Fr. Gregory Jensen
  #12  
Old Dec 4, '09, 10:50 pm
crm114 crm114 is offline
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Default It is very clear that a former Anglican who

It is very clear that a former Anglican who previously was received into full communion may become a member of a personal ordinariate:

The Ordinariate is composed of lay faithful, clerics and members of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, originally belonging to the Anglican Communion and now in full communion with the Catholic Church, or those who receive the Sacraments of Initiation within the jurisdiction of the Ordinariate. (AC I. ß4)

However, he must request it:

Both the lay faithful as well as members of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, originally part of the Anglican Communion, who wish to enter the Personal Ordinariate, must manifest this desire in writing. (AC X.)

So, if the ordinariate has not yet been erected, how does he make his request? Clearly, he should individually petition the CDF for the erection of an ordinariate:

Personal Ordinariates for Anglicans entering into full communion with the Catholic Church are erected by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith within the confines of the territorial boundaries of a particular Conference of Bishops in consultation with that same Conference. (AC I. ß1)
 

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