BIG NEWS: Anglican Province Accepts Pope's Offer

[mike the bike]

I am so happy for the beginning stages of the reunification of the Church. As a Catholic in the Roman Rite, would that allow me to attend mass and receive the Eucharist at new TAC mass/service?

[Eutychus123]

The AC would allow attendance, but you could not join.

[Chatter163]

No, you could not, because the Anglican clergy in question must first be received, confirmed and ordained. After that they are Roman Catholic priests of the Anglican provision/ordinariate and then you could attend one of their Masses and receive communion.

[Norrin]

Originally Posted by mike the bike

I am so happy for the beginning stages of the reunification of the Church. As a Catholic in the Roman Rite, would that allow me to attend mass and receive the Eucharist at new TAC mass/service?

When the transition is all approved and all over, I believe that you will be able to receive communion from the Anglican Church as a Roman Catholic . This is what meant by re-unification, that everyone acknowledges each other as legitmate. For instance, I am Roman Catholic, but I am also allowed to receive communion in the Byzantine Church, since they are re-unified and in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The same will apply with the Anglican Church.

[Chatter163]

Originally Posted by Norrin

When the transition is all approved and all over, I believe that you will be able to receive communion from the Anglican Church as a Roman Catholic . This is what meant by re-unification, that everyone acknowledges each other as legitmate. For instance, I am Roman Catholic, but I am also allowed to receive communion in the Byzantine Church, since they are re-unified and in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The same will apply with the Anglican Church.

This provision has NOTHING to do with receiving communion in an Anglican church. It has to do with groups of Anglicans becoming Roman Catholics. This will include new confirmations and ordinations.

[Norrin]

Originally Posted by Chatter163

This provision has NOTHING to do with receiving communion in an Anglican church. It has to do with groups of Anglicans becoming Roman Catholics. This will include new confirmations and ordinations.

Well perhaps not yet. But tell me, what purpose is re-unification then if one Church does not accept the Eucharist from the other? Yes, changes will have to be made (on the Anglican side), and perhaps the Anglicans will have to return to or adopt the entire Catholic rite when it comes to the Eucharist. But if the Anglicans do not adopt a ritual acceptable by the RCC, then there will be no re-unifcation. So, in short, there can be no re-unification if the issue of the Eucharist is not addressed.

[BernadetteM]

The Anglicans will be Latin Rite Catholics with an Anglican Use of the Mass. There is already an approved Anglican Use Mass at several parishes. There is the Book of Divine Worship also and I think that will also be revised. From what I gather this offer is a much broader extension of the Anglican Use Mass and Pastoral Provision, with a much greater protection for these parishes already established and any future ones to be allowed to grow and expand.

I believe that the same requirements that are already in existence will be the same. Priests who are married will be allowed, case by case. Non married priests will remain celibate. All doctrines, dogmas and the Papacy will be accepted. They won't be under a Latin Rite Bishop, but an Ordinariate conferring with the Bishop will help to establish these parishes and from what I understand the Ordinariate will deal directly with Rome.

Any Catholic can attend the parishes and I believe in the future that any Catholic who desires to be a member of such a parish will be allowed. This is already true in the Anglican Use parishes now.

All this will take time and there will be many things to be worked out. I think that there will be a new liturgy that will hopefully follow the Anglican Missal, and also as they do now use the Sarum Use for the prayers of consecration.

We must wait and see exactly what will be decided upon as far as the liturgy, but I feel that all the rest of the procedures will follow the Pastoral Provision.

The parishes would be named something like this, St. Marys Catholic Church, Anglican Use, not St. Marys Anglican Catholic Church or St. Marys Catholic Anglican Church.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

[Chatter163]

Originally Posted by Norrin

Well perhaps not yet. But tell me, what purpose is re-unification then if one Church does not accept the Eucharist from the other? Yes, changes will have to be made (on the Anglican side), and perhaps the Anglicans will have to return to or adopt the entire Catholic rite when it comes to the Eucharist. But if the Anglicans do not adopt a ritual acceptable by the RCC, then there will be no re-unifcation. So, in short, there can be no re-unification if the issue of the Eucharist is not addressed.

You seem to misunderstand the nature of this decree. It is not a "reunification scheme," in the sense that two churches are drawing closer together. This is an invitation from the Holy See for disaffected Anglicans to enter the Catholic Church. It was NOT the result of ecumenical dialogue between two specific churches, and certainly not between the Anglican Communion and Rome. It was the response of the Holy See to a group that had long ago left the official Anglican Communion and had requested specific privileges if they were permitted to enter the Catholic Church in groups. Those privileges were granted, but those joining the Catholic Church will still need to be confirmed, and clergy will still need to be ordained, because there is absolutely no change in the Church's teaching regarding Anglican orders, hence there is not, nor will there be, any sharing of communion.

Please bear in mind the following facts:

---The official Anglican Communion ws in no way involved in this decree. This includes the Church of England, the Episcopal Church in the USA, the Anglican Church of Canada, the Anglican Church in Australia, the Anglican Church in New Zealand, and the growing various national Anglican churches throughout Africa. Many in these churches, especially the non-African ones, were irritated by the decree and feel that it was a proselytizing move that only set ecumenical relations BACK, so it certainly does not draw anyone there toward reunification of any sort. Small numbers of members of these churches may avail themselves of this decree and join the Catholic Church, but in so doing they awill be turning their backs, so to speak, on what will then become their former affiliations.

---One might say that this is a reunification move by the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC), whose bishops initiated this request to the Holy See in 2007. However, that is not one church, but a confederation of a number of churches, mostly national in origin, and each church is comprised of members who come from a variety of Anglican bakcgrounds, in terms of faith and churchmanship. This ranges from low church evangelicals, who are more Protestant than they are Catholic, all the way to Anglo-Papalists, who are very traditional Anglo-Catholics who always desired reunification with the Holy See, and are very Catholic in their faith and practice. Admittedly, Anglo-Catholics predominate in the TAC, but those sympathetic to this decree are by no means the absolute majority, not in the clergy, and especially not in the pews. Some member churches will be mostly opposed to this, while others will have more sympathy. It will be left to individual parishes and groups. So from the TAC there will be some movement, one hopes that it will be a significant one. But again, it does not involve the Catholic Church and another church; it is an invitation to disaffected Anglicans who come from more than a dozen different denominational bakcgrounds. There is no one group with which one might "share" communion.

---The rejection of Anglican orders not only has not changed, but is reinforced by this decree, in that it expects that sacraments after baptism will need to be repeated. Yes, this will happen on a fast track, which is wonderful, but the fact that these sacraments will not even be conditionally celebrated is significant. In fact, some Anglo-Catholics will reject the invitation, precisely because of this.

---There are no further plans to "address" the Eucharist or anything else. This was the best offer the Holy Father could make, and he has made it. There are logistical concerns to be worked out, but there never was, nor will there be, any ecumenical dialogue to "share" sacraments of any sort. It is a chance for Catholic-minded Anglicans to come over (to "make their submission to Rome," as the English used to say in less ecumenical times) with much of their familiar liturgical and musical heritage intact, and a few other ecclesiatical mechanisms. It is not an attempt at reunification, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Norrin]

Originally Posted by Chatter163

You seem to misunderstand the nature of this decree. It is not a "reunification scheme," in the sense that two churches are drawing closer together. This is an invitation from the Holy See for disaffected Anglicans to enter the Catholic Church. It was NOT the result of ecumenical dialogue between two specific churches, and certainly not between the Anglican Communion and Rome. It was the response of the Holy See to a group that had long ago left the official Anglican Communion and had requested specific privileges if they were permitted to enter the Catholic Church in groups. Those privileges were granted, but those joining the Catholic Church will still need to be confirmed, and clergy will still need to be ordained, because there is absolutely no change in the Church's teaching regarding Anglican orders, hence there is not, nor will there be, any sharing of communion.

Please bear in mind the following facts:

---The official Anglican Communion ws in no way involved in this decree. This includes the Church of England, the Episcopal Church in the USA, the Anglican Church of Canada, the Anglican Church in Australia, the Anglican Church in New Zealand, and the growing various national Anglican churches throughout Africa. Many in these churches, especially the non-African ones, were irritated by the decree and feel that it was a proselytizing move that only set ecumenical relations BACK, so it certainly does not draw anyone there toward reunification of any sort. Small numbers of members of these churches may avail themselves of this decree and join the Catholic Church, but in so doing they awill be turning their backs, so to speak, on what will then become their former affiliations.

---One might say that this is a reunification move by the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC), whose bishops initiated this request to the Holy See in 2007. However, that is not one church, but a confederation of a number of churches, mostly national in origin, and each church is comprised of members who come from a variety of Anglican bakcgrounds, in terms of faith and churchmanship. This ranges from low church evangelicals, who are more Protestant than they are Catholic, all the way to Anglo-Papalists, who are very traditional Anglo-Catholics who always desired reunification with the Holy See, and are very Catholic in their faith and practice. Admittedly, Anglo-Catholics predominate in the TAC, but those sympathetic to this decree are by no means the absolute majority, not in the clergy, and especially not in the pews. Some member churches will be mostly opposed to this, while others will have more sympathy. It will be left to individual parishes and groups. So from the TAC there will be some movement, one hopes that it will be a significant one. But again, it does not involve the Catholic Church and another church; it is an invitation to disaffected Anglicans who come from more than a dozen different denominational bakcgrounds. There is no one group with which one might "share" communion.

---The rejection of Anglican orders not only has not changed, but is reinforced by this decree, in that it expects that sacraments after baptism will need to be repeated. Yes, this will happen on a fast track, which is wonderful, but the fact that these sacraments will not even be conditionally celebrated is significant. In fact, some Anglo-Catholics will reject the invitation, precisely because of this.

---There are no further plans to "address" the Eucharist or anything else. This was the best offer the Holy Father could make, and he has made it. There are logistical concerns to be worked out, but there never was, nor will there be, any ecumenical dialogue to "share" sacraments of any sort. It is a chance for Catholic-minded Anglicans to come over (to "make their submission to Rome," as the English used to say in less ecumenical times) with much of their familiar liturgical and musical heritage intact, and a few other ecclesiatical mechanisms. It is not an attempt at reunification, by any stretch of the imagination.

You are correct, I misunderstood the nature of this decree. After further reading what is happening, I was in the wrong. My apologies.