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  #16  
Old Jan 7, '10, 12:41 am
jen fla's Avatar
jen fla jen fla is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

also you will see this quote often around here, but it does speak volumes. this is the first written reference of the Church being called by Her proper name.

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. Ignatius Letter to Smyrna ch. 8 AD110


How Old Is Your Church?
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel." "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
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  #17  
Old Jan 7, '10, 1:09 am
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

I too had never felt Christ until the day I walked into a Catholic church, it was truely God calling you home. I have family that turns there nose at me and attacks my religion but for myself I have never felt more closer to god in all my life, until I became Catholic. I truely feel him in my life now, and I believe that's the good feelings your feeling inside yourself. Remember satan uses our ouwn doubt to lead us astray.
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  #18  
Old Jan 9, '10, 8:33 pm
ThePKCatholic ThePKCatholic is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

I thank you all for your responses. They have all been such a blessing.

PKC
  #19  
Old Jan 10, '10, 1:19 pm
dianaiad dianaiad is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePKCatholic View Post
Hello,
I have been strolling around these forums for about a month, but have yet to make my first post. After a conversation with my grand mother yesterday, I have decided I need input from fellow Christians.
First I will give some background on myself.
I was raised Pentecostal. My father and grandfather both pastor at the same church (our church). We have attendance of about 25-35, so it is a very small group, but church nonetheless.

After taking my first two semesters at community college, I applied and was accepted to a university here in Texas. I have completed my first semester of my junior year, and am about to start my second.

Last semester was very rough for me. And being very frank, I was on the last step of atheism. I had totally given up on God because of some church problems at me and my fiances church at school. After about two months of turning my back on God, and having no prayer life, one day I laid out on my bed and just yelled out, "Okay God! Just throw me somewhere that You want me! Please!"

Only two days later, a girl that had sat next too for the entire semester invited me to her church, and it was Catholic. I told her that I was not catholic, but I would go anyways. (I mean, what did I have to lose?). I felt something amazing, and before long, I knew I was being called to the Catholic church. God was answering my prayers like never before, and I was on fire for God like NEVER before. I had never felt comfortable in my church at home (even, yes, after 19 years). Now God was real to me, he was THERE . . . and everything was just "right."

(I told my parents and grandparents that I went only a few times. And that is all they know. Please keep this in mind.)

A few weeks ago I was giving a "testimony" in my church here at home, and admitted that I had been doubting God, and the second I gave up and prayed . . . he took control and led me back to Him.

Yesterday my grandmother sat me down and said she wanted to talk about the Catholic church. (Mind you, this is after three days before Christmas, my dad yelled at me for going to mass three times and said "the next time you step into a Catholic church . . . you need to know you do not have your mother and mines blessing." The reasoning was vague and filled with the common misunderstandings. He also claimed and said that most Catholics were going to burn in Hell.)

After explaining her reasons for seeing that the Catholic church is wrong (I will delve into these later. It is the common very tip-of-the-iceberg reasons), she then explained why I had gone.
She said that when I prayed the time laid on my bed, that Satan had interceded it and led me to the Catholic church thru my friend. She said that "It is like a bunch of circles. God is in the center, and you were on, probably, the last outward circle. And when you made your prayer audible . . . Satan heard that and used it to lead you to the Church that is pretty much Satanic."

I thought I was not understanding . . . so I had her repeat all of it twice, and both times she explained this "Circle" theory, and the fact that I, in a way, prayed to Satan because I was not "In the center."

There was a lot more said in this conversation regarding me (my major at school, Psychology, and the reasons it is un-Godly/un-Christian). Needless to say, I feel like I have had the air knocked out of me.

I am a really smart guy, but this is just psyching me out for some reason.

My main questions are.

#1 - Is this true, was my prayer possibly used by Satan?

#2 - Where is she getting this theory? Is this in the bible?

#3 - Any other thoughts or responses are welcome.

PS - Mind you, my entire family knows NOTHING more than I have gone to Mass three times. NO more.

PSS - To be honest, I am reaching out for some Hope. I am having that feeling again that Religion is just a big mess of people thinking they are right. What is happening is about to split my family in half. And over what, Religion? I mean . . . Seriously?

Blessings,
PKCatholic.
First: religion will split families faster, and further apart, than anything else. It's serious stuff--your family honestly and deeply feel that if you become Catholic, that your soul is in grave danger; you may well go to hell and quite literally burn forever. You need to understand that. They don't understand Catholicism AT all--and are frightened to death of it.

It WILL cause a rift that might never be healed, unless YOU heal it.

Please understand: I'm a Mormon--and the only thing that would split your family faster than you becomming a Catholic would be you becoming one of us.. The problem is, your grandmother is WRONG. When you poured your heart out to God that day, you got an answer--you are supposed to go where He leads you. How in the name of all that is wonderful are you supposed to turn away from an answer like the one you got?

What you CAN do is be honest with your folks, and respect their beliefs. When you are home, attend their services. Honor their choices...and quietly practice your own. Catholics consider them to be Christians, after all, even if they don't consider Catholics to be Christian. ...and by 'quietly' I don't mean hide it. Hiding your faith will only drive the wedge deeper. I just mean---don't get obnoxious.

I can't tell you that this won't divide your family. It probably will...but I've noticed that time, patience and love can heal almost any rift, eventually. You just need to decide what's more important to you.
  #20  
Old Jan 10, '10, 2:49 pm
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Byzantine_Wolf Byzantine_Wolf is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

First off, thank you for the story, ThePKCatholic. Very inspiring, and a very thought provoking question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePKCatholic View Post
My main questions are.

#1 - Is this true, was my prayer possibly used by Satan?

#2 - Where is she getting this theory? Is this in the bible?

#3 - Any other thoughts or responses are welcome.
First, it is true that the devil can deceive us in the form of righteousness. St. Paul warns us that "false apostles" can disguise themselves in such sheep's clothing because "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light" (2 Cor 11:13-14). When the devil tempted Christ in the desert, remember that in one of the three temptations he used scripture to do so. St. John, the beloved disciple, warned Christians not to trust every spirit that came their way, and to discern if they be of God (1 John 4:1).

The Fathers of the Church also warned against this. St. Peter of Damascus said "There is nothing astonishing in the fact that the devil assumes the form of 'an angel of light', for the thoughts that he sows in us also appear to be righteous when we lack experience." St. Maximos the Confessor (that's him in my avatar, btw) warned that "demons attack us invisibly in the guise of spiritual friendship, pretending that they want to accomplish the death of sin by means of which in themselves are good." If you read the lives of early monastics, you'll find many instances where demons disguised themselves as angels, fellow monks, and even bishops to try to lead ascetics astray.

More in relation to what you're suggesting, I think I myself had something similar to this temptation. When I was experiencing a kind of "spiritual death" and was praying to find out what to do with my life, I was visited by two Mormons. Here was an example where the devil may have been trying to tempt me away from the true path upon hearing my prayers. What saved me, I think, was that God had, in His mercy, educated me enough scripturally and patristically just enough that I could see through their schemes and identify their errors, and I never have joined the LDS church.

As for you, I don't think that Satan is trying to lead you astray. I think the very fact that you're asking this question openly and asking for sincere responses from your fellow Christians is a sign that you are spiritually mature enough to be discerning, or at least desire to be discerning.
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  #21  
Old Jan 10, '10, 8:34 pm
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Anna Scott Anna Scott is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine_Wolf View Post
First off, thank you for the story, ThePKCatholic. Very inspiring, and a very thought provoking question

First, it is true that the devil can deceive us in the form of righteousness. St. Paul warns us that "false apostles" can disguise themselves in such sheep's clothing because "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light" (2 Cor 11:13-14). When the devil tempted Christ in the desert, remember that in one of the three temptations he used scripture to do so. St. John, the beloved disciple, warned Christians not to trust every spirit that came their way, and to discern if they be of God (1 John 4:1).

The Fathers of the Church also warned against this. St. Peter of Damascus said "There is nothing astonishing in the fact that the devil assumes the form of 'an angel of light', for the thoughts that he sows in us also appear to be righteous when we lack experience." St. Maximos the Confessor (that's him in my avatar, btw) warned that "demons attack us invisibly in the guise of spiritual friendship, pretending that they want to accomplish the death of sin by means of which in themselves are good." If you read the lives of early monastics, you'll find many instances where demons disguised themselves as angels, fellow monks, and even bishops to try to lead ascetics astray.

More in relation to what you're suggesting, I think I myself had something similar to this temptation. When I was experiencing a kind of "spiritual death" and was praying to find out what to do with my life, I was visited by two Mormons. Here was an example where the devil may have been trying to tempt me away from the true path upon hearing my prayers. What saved me, I think, was that God had, in His mercy, educated me enough scripturally and patristically just enough that I could see through their schemes and identify their errors, and I never have joined the LDS church.

As for you, I don't think that Satan is trying to lead you astray. I think the very fact that you're asking this question openly and asking for sincere responses from your fellow Christians is a sign that you are spiritually mature enough to be discerning, or at least desire to be discerning.
Mr. Wolf,

This is a very wise post. I am glad you were educated enough to see through the Mormon schemes, as you said.

My experience (more than 10 years ago) with Mormonism demonstrates the opposite. I was praying for a church. I was vulnerable--a single mom in a large city with no family, here--really needing a support system.

Sadly, at that time, I did not have the study of Scripture and Christian tradition under my belt. So, I fell for the Mormon deception and was baptized into the Mormon church. No one could believe I actually did this. You've read my story, before. I did leave, as soon as I discovered what they really believe; but it was painful and difficult.

So, I do believe Satan can deceive us; and given the right circumstances, anyone of us could fall into deception. The Mormon experience did make me very humble.

I think you touched on the key: we must be prepared with a knowledge of Scripture and Christian history and tradition. (I've been playing "catch up" for the last 4 or 5 years.)

I would add: pray for discernment in all things and test everything--which seems to be what you did and what the OP is doing.

Anna
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  #22  
Old Jan 11, '10, 5:19 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Satan can NOT intercept our prayers to God.

This is one of many Pentecostal superstitions.
  #23  
Old Jan 11, '10, 5:44 pm
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePKCatholic View Post
Hello,
I have been strolling around these forums for about a month, but have yet to make my first post. After a conversation with my grand mother yesterday, I have decided I need input from fellow Christians.
First I will give some background on myself.
I was raised Pentecostal. My father and grandfather both pastor at the same church (our church). We have attendance of about 25-35, so it is a very small group, but church nonetheless.

After taking my first two semesters at community college, I applied and was accepted to a university here in Texas. I have completed my first semester of my junior year, and am about to start my second.

Last semester was very rough for me. And being very frank, I was on the last step of atheism. I had totally given up on God because of some church problems at me and my fiances church at school. After about two months of turning my back on God, and having no prayer life, one day I laid out on my bed and just yelled out, "Okay God! Just throw me somewhere that You want me! Please!"

Only two days later, a girl that had sat next too for the entire semester invited me to her church, and it was Catholic. I told her that I was not catholic, but I would go anyways. (I mean, what did I have to lose?). I felt something amazing, and before long, I knew I was being called to the Catholic church. God was answering my prayers like never before, and I was on fire for God like NEVER before. I had never felt comfortable in my church at home (even, yes, after 19 years). Now God was real to me, he was THERE . . . and everything was just "right."

(I told my parents and grandparents that I went only a few times. And that is all they know. Please keep this in mind.)

A few weeks ago I was giving a "testimony" in my church here at home, and admitted that I had been doubting God, and the second I gave up and prayed . . . he took control and led me back to Him.

Yesterday my grandmother sat me down and said she wanted to talk about the Catholic church. (Mind you, this is after three days before Christmas, my dad yelled at me for going to mass three times and said "the next time you step into a Catholic church . . . you need to know you do not have your mother and mines blessing." The reasoning was vague and filled with the common misunderstandings. He also claimed and said that most Catholics were going to burn in Hell.)

After explaining her reasons for seeing that the Catholic church is wrong (I will delve into these later. It is the common very tip-of-the-iceberg reasons), she then explained why I had gone.
She said that when I prayed the time laid on my bed, that Satan had interceded it and led me to the Catholic church thru my friend. She said that "It is like a bunch of circles. God is in the center, and you were on, probably, the last outward circle. And when you made your prayer audible . . . Satan heard that and used it to lead you to the Church that is pretty much Satanic."

I thought I was not understanding . . . so I had her repeat all of it twice, and both times she explained this "Circle" theory, and the fact that I, in a way, prayed to Satan because I was not "In the center."

There was a lot more said in this conversation regarding me (my major at school, Psychology, and the reasons it is un-Godly/un-Christian). Needless to say, I feel like I have had the air knocked out of me.

I am a really smart guy, but this is just psyching me out for some reason.

My main questions are.

#1 - Is this true, was my prayer possibly used by Satan?

#2 - Where is she getting this theory? Is this in the bible?

#3 - Any other thoughts or responses are welcome.

PS - Mind you, my entire family knows NOTHING more than I have gone to Mass three times. NO more.

PSS - To be honest, I am reaching out for some Hope. I am having that feeling again that Religion is just a big mess of people thinking they are right. What is happening is about to split my family in half. And over what, Religion? I mean . . . Seriously?

Blessings,
PKCatholic.
Congrats on coming back to God, and going to the church.

I'm sure you'll get enough answers concerning Satan, so I'll give advise for the family situation.

*Tons* of saints, I mean *tons* have gone against their government, their church, their family, because they were doing what they thought was right. Some of the time, they convert their families, friends, churches, and even whole country sides to the faith throughout their strong faith and holiness. The other times, they are allowed to see his holy face through martyrdom.
If this is what you feel is right, then *do* it.

With the holy ghost's help, you can be the catalyst for more conversions to the faith.


God Bless, I'll pray that you make the right choice.
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God Bless the United States,
God Bless Ireland, the land of my ancestors,
God Bless My family,
God Bless the Soldiers,
God Bless my enemies, so they might change their ways,
And if they do not, break their ankle so I might recognize them by their limp.
Amen
  #24  
Old Jan 11, '10, 7:22 pm
adstrinity adstrinity is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Concentric circles were used in Dante's Divine Comedy.

Anyway, as much as she loves you, that was insulting. FURTHERMORE, your grandmother is giving the devil WAY too much credit. Assume she is correct, devil heard your prayer (though, it's probably a much lesser demon, the devil has WAY more important things than you); is the devil more powerful than God? Is he in direct opposition TO God? Even if the demon did hear your prayer, that assumes that God can't make use out of it.

Did a demon hear your prayer, I wouldn't brush it off, but, what does that mean? He's going to want to lead you away from God in any way possible. ANY way. ALL tricks up his sleeve. To be honest, and, this will sound harsh, it could be that, and, I appologize saying this because I do not wish to insult you or your grandmother, the devil is trying to use her to instill doubts in your mind. She means well, but, again, do not underestimate the demons (but, do not think they have won or will win).

I will pray for your discernment. I truly hope and will pray you belong in the Catholic Church but, know what that means, fully. You wont learn it all in one year, and you will hear many different, possibly opposing, varying opinions, many from inside the Church herself. However, know what the Church really teaches and what the oppositions are. Pray for yourself, pray for your life, pray for your family.

Your whole mission in life is to know God, to love God and to serve God. Do that and you cannot go wrong.

P.S. "Ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ."
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  #25  
Old Jan 11, '10, 7:41 pm
DihydrogenOxide DihydrogenOxide is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

God bless you on you road. Don't worry, I'll be behind you in my prayers.

Your story is beautiful. Don't be discouraged by your family. They have misconceptions.

satan would rather that you had fallen into despair rather than gaining hope in the Lord. ^^;;

Your parents are being used, in their ignorance, to pull you away from the hope God is giving you. It is a test that the Lord desired you to have. I will pray for you in your trials.

Welcome! Welcome!
  #26  
Old Jan 11, '10, 10:46 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Anything Satan does, is permitted by God so don't worry.
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  #27  
Old Jan 27, '10, 8:09 pm
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Teneas Teneas is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

So give us an update here man! I haven't been the best at sending you those pms lately, but still want to know how things are going.

You still sticking to your chosen path? How is the family? What is up?




Matt/Ten/butt head *wife's newest pet name for me*
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  #28  
Old Jan 28, '10, 12:22 am
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePKCatholic View Post

Hello,



Yesterday my grandmother sat me down and said she wanted to talk about the Catholic church. (Mind you, this is after three days before Christmas, my dad yelled at me for going to mass three times and said "the next time you step into a Catholic church . . . you need to know you do not have your mother and mines blessing." The reasoning was vague and filled with the common misunderstandings. He also claimed and said that most Catholics were going to burn in Hell.)

After explaining her reasons for seeing that the Catholic church is wrong (I will delve into these later. It is the common very tip-of-the-iceberg reasons), she then explained why I had gone.
She said that when I prayed the time laid on my bed, that Satan had interceded it and led me to the Catholic church thru my friend. She said that "It is like a bunch of circles. God is in the center, and you were on, probably, the last outward circle. And when you made your prayer audible . . . Satan heard that and used it to lead you to the Church that is pretty much Satanic."




I thought I was not understanding . . . so I had her repeat all of it twice, and both times she explained this "Circle" theory, and the fact that I, in a way, prayed to Satan because I was not "In the center."

There was a lot more said in this conversation regarding me (my major at school, Psychology, and the reasons it is un-Godly/un-Christian). Needless to say, I feel like I have had the air knocked out of me.

I am a really smart guy, but this is just psyching me out for some reason.

My main questions are.

#1 - Is this true, was my prayer possibly used by Satan?

#2 - Where is she getting this theory? Is this in the bible?




Blessings,
PKCatholic.


Your grandmother most probably believed what she said and from her perspective she may be right. If she believes that Catholics go to hell, it makes sense to her that you were led by Satan when you went to the Catholic Church or decide to become Catholic.

I have never heard that our prayer to God can be intercepted by Satan. If it is so, it downgrade praying, more so the power of prayer. However, there is no denying that Satan can always tempt you to the untruth. It is always said, the nearer you are to God, the harder Satan would work to pry you away from God. He is a roaring lion waiting to devour his prey. We could be his prey should we lose focus on God. Thus your grandmother’s advice is not Biblical since the power of God is greater than Satan’s.

Anyway, trust your heart. It is natural for us to recommend to you the Catholic Church but you can always say that’s because we are Catholics. You need to be convinced yourself that she is THE church. From our perspective, it is truly the Holy Spirit who leads you there for how could Satan leads you to God?

God bless you in your journey.
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  #29  
Old Jan 28, '10, 12:43 am
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Zooey Zooey is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher View Post
Interesting....glad you have come back to the Light.

I would ask you one question in your inquiry if Satan "intercepted" your prayer....to consider the words of Jesus..."If your child asks for bread, would you give him a stone...if your child asked for fish...would you give him a snake?" Would God allow you to remain in despair when you called upon Him?

"Behold what love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the children of God."

Trust you Heavenly Father...in your weakness do you really think He would abandon you to Satan when you called upon Him?
What Publisher said.


PK, it seems to me, that if satan were "intercepting your prayers" (which is, IMHO, giving him way too much credit) but if he were, he would NOT be leading you toward any Christian church.
Frankly, your grandmother (who I am sure loves you & means the best for you) sounds quite superstitious. Nowhere in the Bible is there anything that would go against what IS in the Bible: Which, as I said, up top, is what Publisher said.

Prayers for you, & your family.
HTH.
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  #30  
Old Jan 28, '10, 7:13 am
TheRock88 TheRock88 is offline
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Default Re: Prayer to God interceded by Satan?

Hey PK,

Just a few suggestions
1) Someone else said to discuss it with a catholic priest. I think this is good advice, just ask God for the right one
2) Pray about it. God answered you once, he'll answer you again.
3) You're a smart guy, use the intelligence that God gave you to evaluate your experiences of the catholic church. Also learn as much as you can about the church , and ask God to lead you in the search for truth
4) Jeremiah 29 13 says 'when you seek me you will find me; when you seek me with your whole heart; I will let you find me." So seek Him with your whole heart!!
5) Use discernemnt and look at the fruits of your experience with the catholic church. If something is of God, the fruits will be positive: peace joy love kindness goodness etc..(Galatians 5:22).

hope this helps bro,
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