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  #16  
Old Apr 20, '05, 5:57 am
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Ani Ibi Ani Ibi is offline
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Lord Avebury’s Religious Offences Bill 2002

I don't know if this Bill has become law yet. I believe it has but in somewhat amended form. You can Google it to find out.


Type of offence: Incitement of Religious Hatred: To behave in such a manner or to use or publish insulting or abusive words with the intent to stir up religious hatred or, in the circumstances, religious hatred is likely to be stirred up as a result of the action.

Group(s) protected: the protection has been extended to adherents of all ‘religious groups.’ ‘Religious group’ has not been defined, but left to the Courts to define should the occasion arise for such a definition.

Sentence: Maximum seven years imprisonment.

Remarks: The Avery Bill seeks to extend the provisions of the Public Disorder Act 1986 to ALL faith communities, including Anglicans, other Christian denominations, Muslims and other faith communities in Britain presently not protected from incitement of hatred against them.

continued...
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  #17  
Old Apr 20, '05, 6:00 am
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

s.4.(1) A person whose course of conduct causes another to fear, on at least two occasions, that violence will be used against him is guilty of an offence if he knows or ought to know that his course of conduct will cause the other so to fear o each of those occasions.

s.4.(2) For the purpose of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question

ought to know that it will cause another to fear that violence will be used against him on any occasion if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct would cause the other so to fear on that occasion.

s.7.(2) References to harassing a person include alarming the person or causing the person distress.

s.7.(3) A ‘course of conduct’ must involve conduct on at least two occasions.

s.7.(4) ‘Conduct’ includes speech.

---------------------------------------------------------------

S.4. - (1) A person whose course of conduct causes another to fear, on at least two occasions, that violence will be used against him is guilty of an offence if he knows or ought to know that his course of conduct will cause the other so to fear on each of those occasions.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it will cause another to fear that violence will be used against him on any occasion if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct would cause the other so to fear on that occasion.

(3) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to show that-

(a) his course of conduct was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

(b) his course of conduct was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

(c) the pursuit of his course of conduct was reasonable for the protection of himself or another or for the protection of his or another's property.

S.7. - (1) This section applies for the interpretation of sections 1 to 5.

(2) References to harassing a person include alarming the person or causing the person distress.

(3) A "course of conduct" must involve conduct on at least two occasions.

(4) "Conduct" includes speech.
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  #18  
Old Apr 20, '05, 6:11 am
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Now as for some of the comments which interceded my posts on the English statutes:

Charity certainly is what we are called to as Catholics responding to Anti-Catholic hatred. However, charity includes correction. Moreover, on discussion boards which permit hatred, one must consider the vulnerable and searching who frequent those boards. Those people must be protected from harm resulting from error.

I found myself in the a compromised position on an English discussion board. I was suspended for citing the statutes which prohibit a long long long series of hate posts by a cartel of Anti-Catholic posters on a Christian board. As I said, I attempted to discuss it by private message with the mods. But the mods were furious that I had questioned their authority in the matter. I pointed out to them that the authority in the matter was not themselves but the law.

They escalated. I contacted head office and a member of parliament. At that point someone from head office started a series of threads pointing out the difference between 'robust debate' and injurious posts. From that point on, every hate post I reported to the mods was removed from the board. There was a time when I was reporting an average of ten posts per day!

Here is the scoop on hate law in England: Use it or lose it!
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  #19  
Old Apr 20, '05, 6:13 am
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Here is a link to Her Majesty's Stationery Office on which you can search statutes. Try searching 'hate' and try searching the titles of any of the statutes I have given you above.

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/
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  #20  
Old Apr 20, '05, 6:16 am
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ani Ibi
Here is a link to Her Majesty's Stationery Office on which you can search statutes. Try searching 'hate' and try searching the titles of any of the statutes I have given you above.

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/
Finally let me conclude by saying that our current Pope Benedict XVI has said that love (charity) is not possible without truth. Consider my signature below.
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  #21  
Old Apr 20, '05, 7:14 am
2plus2plus 2plus2plus is offline
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Wow! That's certainly alot to take in, thanks.

I'm not sure where to start. Perhaps I shall write to my MP. Would that be the right place to report possible infringements?

I wonder if I am simply over reacting? What really annoys me though, is their claim that one can say what one likes about anyone provided they are not a member of the forum. I would seriously like to demonstrate how this is not acceptable and possibly breaks laws.
  #22  
Old Apr 20, '05, 9:17 am
CARose CARose is offline
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Ani,

I'm impressed that what you've accomplished worked! Good for you! The first law posted, Criminal Libel: Blasphemy protects only members of the Church of England, so the Pope would not qualify under that law. Many of the others would cover us if we were a mono-ethnic religious community like Jews and Sihks, but the entire point of Catholicism is that we are Universal, not limiting ourselvse to any specific group of people.

From what I could gather in a quick perusal of your posts, the only one that covers is the bill you aren't certain has passed yet. Well done for pulling it off and getting them to remove the large number of posts after you escalated the case!

And yes, I consider it important to speak the truth in Charity when the opportunity arises. Forums are exactly the right place to do this, for even if the person to whom we post the reply is not willing to hear our response (they don't want to be bothered by the truth), there are many more who lurk and read the posts, and some of them are likely to have an open mind as they seek to become informed.

CARose
  #23  
Old Apr 20, '05, 9:39 am
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2plus2plus
Wow! That's certainly alot to take in, thanks.

I'm not sure where to start. Perhaps I shall write to my MP. Would that be the right place to report possible infringements?

I wonder if I am simply over reacting? What really annoys me though, is their claim that one can say what one likes about anyone provided they are not a member of the forum. I would seriously like to demonstrate how this is not acceptable and possibly breaks laws.
Do not be afraid. You are not over-reacting. One of the first things that B16 is doing is something he started before accepting the papacy: a Conference on Natural Law at Catholic University in the U.S.

His thinking is that Natural Law is something which springs from our very natures as human beings; it is something which everyone understands regardless of race, creed, educational level and so on.

His strategy (and he is nothing if not the most brilliant theologian in the Church today) is that bring Natural Law into the light of examination is a tremendous unifying force among different faiths and even among different philosophies.

Do not be afraid. If you do not speak up, who will? Remember, we have all gone there before you. Myself on the BBC boards. Others here as well as myself in the Terri Schiavo case.

If you are still shy then ask the other English posters on Catholic Answers to send a group letter with you. PM and I will give you their names.

First send a letter (polite) to the head office of the offending forum. State clearly but gently that you are aware of the applicable English statutes (list them) and that any violation of them on the part of the forum administrators in precarious times such as these is extremely ill-advised.

Also state that you believe that an error may have occurred in the moderation of the hate posts (and never stint from calling them hate posts) and that you are confident that the adminstrators can and will redress this breach of good taste and English law.

Also state that you hope an accommodation can be reached by ______ (give a date 2 weeks from the date of your letter) and, if not, then you have no recourse but to contact your member of parliament.

You may also want to add that, in the U.S., the FBI tracked hate posters coming from an individual, got a search warrant, seized his computer, and arrested the individual implicated.

You, of course, are confident that discipline of hate posters within the forum in question in England will suffice. You would hate (of course) for the English authorities to feel obliged to emulate their American counterparts.

It took me about a week to do the research, examine the statutes, and formulate the letters. There were a whole series of letters. God bless! Ani.
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  #24  
Old Apr 20, '05, 9:52 am
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARose
The first law posted, Criminal Libel: Blasphemy protects only members of the Church of England, so the Pope would not qualify under that law.
Nevertheless, if one is undertaking an appeal it is critical to understand the history of the development of anti-hate legislation. England is a culture of history. English law is based on historical precedent. It is the 'spirit of the law' which must be understood as well as the scope of the statutes and the legal precedents which define the statutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARose
Many of the others would cover us if we were a mono-ethnic religious community like Jews and Sihks, but the entire point of Catholicism is that we are Universal, not limiting ourselvse to any specific group of people.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARose
From what I could gather in a quick perusal of your posts, the only one that covers is the bill you aren't certain has passed yet. Well done for pulling it off and getting them to remove the large number of posts after you escalated the case!
I am pretty sure the Bill has passed. I just don't have the link to it. However, the existing law on Harrassment more than covers this situation and it was in fact the statute which brought the head office which I contacted to a conciliatory stance with respect to rescinding my suspension and removing every single hate post about which I complained from that point on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARose
And yes, I consider it important to speak the truth in Charity when the opportunity arises. Forums are exactly the right place to do this, for even if the person to whom we post the reply is not willing to hear our response (they don't want to be bothered by the truth), there are many more who lurk and read the posts, and some of them are likely to have an open mind as they seek to become informed.
The real point of charity is that includes correction of error. There are lurkers who may be suffering from suicidal ideation, or any number of desperate thoughts who really really need to hear the Truth and not be threatened, intimidated or fomented to commit violent crimes against religious groups.

We must keep in mind that England, against all odds, has been a staunch ally of the United States in the War against Terror. As such, England is vulnerable to reprisals. Allowing posts containing hatred toward any one religious group to remain on an English forum is dangerous and seditious, deserving of immediate remedy.
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  #25  
Old Apr 20, '05, 10:41 am
CARose CARose is offline
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Again,

Well done! It's excellent to know that your efforts worked. That we would all put in the effort you've demonstrated.

CARose
  #26  
Old Apr 20, '05, 10:47 am
TheTruth0723 TheTruth0723 is offline
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Default Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Disgusting monkies. I'm beginning to really like this guy; he wants to re-unify Christians. Very noble act. And contraception, although it provides safety, is a sin; it takes away from what God created sexuality for.
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Yay, go Pope Benny 16!!!!!!!!
  #27  
Old Apr 25, '05, 11:06 pm
arcura arcura is offline
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Exclamation Re: Anti Pope comments on another forum - Your view please

Either tell the confused poor soul that anyone with an attitude as he has does not have the mental power necessary to understand why a conservative pope is a necessity in this day and age
Or
Ignore him.
Fred (arcura)
 

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